|
dagawebb
Dec 10, 2004, 9:06 AM
Post #1 of 18
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 13, 2003
Posts: 55
|
Hi All,
Just a quick question for you all. Since Zodiac was cleaned has the grade gone back to its original grading or has it maintained the Supertopos grading. ?????
|
|
|
|
|
karlbaba
Dec 10, 2004, 6:42 PM
Post #2 of 18
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 10, 2002
Posts: 1159
|
It was originally A5, so unless you really screw up, it's not A5.
There's not a lot of info yet, and it will change fast, but count on A3 or so, A3+ Max. I guess you can't count on doing it hammerless anymore either.
Peace
Karl
|
|
|
|
|
dsafanda
Dec 10, 2004, 7:16 PM
Post #3 of 18
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2002
Posts: 1025
|
Aid rating are and will always be pretty subjective. For what it's worth Chris Mac is rating it "VI 5.7 A2 or C3F" in the next edition of the SuperTopo Big Walls guide. That's the same as it was before which seems to makes sense. I'm working on the guidebook and have the new topo(courtesy of Brian Law) in front of me. It doesn't look to me like there is anything that drastic in terms of changes to the route. A few retro bolts are now gone but mostly it was a lot of fixed gear that was removed. Thanks guys!
|
|
|
|
|
boo-yeah
Deleted
Dec 10, 2004, 7:46 PM
Post #4 of 18
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered:
Posts:
|
V2+
|
|
|
|
|
lambone
Dec 11, 2004, 8:00 PM
Post #5 of 18
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 1399
|
My guess would be that p7 and 8 are the cruxes with thin nailing since the old fixed rurps and junk have been removed. p7 is the Black Tower with a potential bad fall...talked to a newbie this October who took two whippers in a row onto it after the clean up...OUCH!
When I did p8 a year ago there were 3 or four fixed rurps and beaks and a head or two in a row. if those were removed I supose you could call it A3.
|
|
|
|
|
njbourne
Dec 15, 2004, 11:56 PM
Post #6 of 18
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 4, 2003
Posts: 113
|
In reply to: For what it's worth Chris Mac is rating it "VI 5.7 A2 or C3F" in the next edition of the SuperTopo Big Walls guide.
I know this is off topic, dsafanda, but can you tell me when the new Yosimite Big Walls guide will be coming out? I'm lickin my chops.
|
|
|
|
|
guanoboy
Dec 16, 2004, 9:37 PM
Post #7 of 18
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2004
Posts: 244
|
I'm not totally sure what has happened since february, but I would definitely call the two sections where the bolt ladders had been chopped A3. I had to rurp, hook, pecker, pecker, hook through the second set of chopped bolts - I think i recall a little wet spot in my shorts after that section.
andrew
|
|
|
|
|
dsafanda
Dec 16, 2004, 10:40 PM
Post #8 of 18
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2002
Posts: 1025
|
In reply to: In reply to: For what it's worth Chris Mac is rating it "VI 5.7 A2 or C3F" in the next edition of the SuperTopo Big Walls guide. I know this is off topic, dsafanda, but can you tell me when the new Yosimite Big Walls guide will be coming out? I'm lickin my chops.
I don't know exactly. Might be a couple months still before it's available. It's pretty much done but there is some fine tuning to do before it goes to the printer. Mac's doing too much snowboarding right now. ;)
|
|
|
|
|
lambone
Dec 17, 2004, 12:38 AM
Post #9 of 18
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 1399
|
In reply to: I'm not totally sure what has happened since february, but I would definitely call the two sections where the bolt ladders had been chopped A3. I had to rurp, hook, pecker, pecker, hook through the second set of chopped bolts - I think i recall a little wet spot in my shorts after that section. andrew
Guano, is that on p3? good to know...protected by bolts though with a clean fall...sounds fun!
|
|
|
|
|
rockprodigy
Dec 17, 2004, 12:56 AM
Post #10 of 18
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 10, 2002
Posts: 1540
|
|
|
|
|
|
iamthewallress
Dec 17, 2004, 1:42 AM
Post #11 of 18
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 2463
|
In reply to: What really irks me, is that it seems like his reasoning for this is so that some chuffer can't stick clip his way up it, then spray about it.
I guess I interpreted his actions a bit differently. In my mind, and the way that I interpreted their motivation, it's not about being pissed that someone who climbed the half-dome cables claims they've climbed half-dome because it diminishes someone else way-styley ascent. It's a reaction to the notion that the installation of such conveniences leads people to feel entitled to them. To me it seemed like more of a general statement about retrobolting, fixing for speed and free attempts and leaving the trash behind, and then others expecting to find trade routes fully fixed for their convenience and then yet others capitalizing on the market for information about the most convenient routes and perhaps encouraging enterprises that maximize their existance. I think it's the viscous cycle of it all that is more at issue than just a couple of dead RURPs or unnecessary heads on the Zodiac.
In reply to: That seems like a really bad reason to do further damage to the rock. Now consider that it has gone free at least twice, and I can't help but be very upset.
I don't respect the Huber free ascent any more than I respect my aid ascent. Both of us were living our own little dreams in our own little way. My dream was lower impact. Theirs was more skillful.
In reply to: If you want to "keep it real" or whatever you call it, why don't you free climb the thing. Zodiac is a trade aid route, so what if it has fixed gear on it? In fact, Yosemite is a trade climbing area. If you are so serious about adventure, go to the mountains
Why not just install via ferratas and chair lifts?
Because even on trade routes, we aim to preserve a certain amount of adventure. For those of us who are not prodigies, sometimes that's the adventure of a lifetime.
Because not everyone thinks that free climbing (or speed climbing also in this case) is the ultimate honor that can be paid to a route, independent of the dammage associated with tactics that produce that tick in some superhuman's guidebook. It can be, but the ends does not justify any means.
In reply to: . Encouraging further damage of a free climb so that you can feel tough is bad style.
I would agree more with this point if it were not for the little factoids that make this case not that cut-and-dry...
Many of the places that were cleaned were not on the free line.
Many of the places that were cleaned was garbage not needed by aid climbers that was left by the free climbers.
Many of the places that were cleaned were also no longer aidable as they consisted of broken crap like dead rurps.
Many of the places that were cleaned of fixed gear created new clean placements instead of the old time bombs.
Finally, since the assumption that the free climbing was purely and simply a great advance for the Zodiac, and that it's the aid climbing that hurts it, I just have to disagree. The amount of dammage that was done to the aid line by the free climbing is also quite real, IMO.
Plenty of nailed placements were made for the freeing, perhaps more than will be refixed before the route starts going clean on aid again. They left these fixed, screw those that come through looking for the usual challenges offered by the aid climb. In particular, the nearly two seasons worth of uber-fixing of gear on certain pitches and the destruction of the experience of commitment (the major reason why a lot of people want to climb El Cap in the first place) for Lord knows how many climbers during the spring season when they had nearly the whole enchilada fixed with ropes to the ground.
It's great that you did your ascent of Freerider ground up. As more and more people see doing these routes as reasonable if they frig them long enough, more and more summit caches appear, the fixed lines off the summit become a permenant fixture, as do the people hanging off of them on their Traxions, and looking at ugly tick marks (graffiti), key fixed pieces of gear, and other free climber detritus become part and parcel with doing these classic climbs. I don't see the proliferation of permafixing some of the free lines as a big advance or an act of preservation for El Cap.
|
|
|
|
|
rockprodigy
Dec 17, 2004, 5:50 AM
Post #12 of 18
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 10, 2002
Posts: 1540
|
Thanks for sharing your point of view.
|
|
|
|
|
guanoboy
Dec 17, 2004, 6:33 AM
Post #13 of 18
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2004
Posts: 244
|
Lambone-
the crux for me was at the chopped bolt ladder leading through the p12 area. the bolt ladder on p8 was also missing and quite difficult when i was there. I'd like to hear what other folks have done in those sections. Oh yeah, i had to place a couple rurps above the black tower.
andrew
|
|
|
|
|
lambone
Dec 17, 2004, 5:53 PM
Post #14 of 18
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 1399
|
p8 was choppedbefore Bryan and crew, by Jim Beyer I heard. When I did it there was a string of heads and beaks up in the thin seam when you enter the Grey Circle. The chopped bolts on the slab were uneccesary, but poorly chopped...(hammerd flat).
|
|
|
|
|
holdplease2
Dec 19, 2004, 4:38 PM
Post #15 of 18
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 18, 2002
Posts: 1733
|
Lambone:
That "newbie" you refer too that took two whippers onto the black tower sent the crux pitch of Zenyatta Mondatta in less than two hours. In the dark. Not to mention the other hard sh!t he sent while talking the whole time, like it was nothing.
He didn't stay a 'newbie' for long, and he claims the black tower pitch is very difficult.
Impressive guy, really. Now there's a real "rock prodigy" for you. His name is Kyle and he is a strong climber with a strong mind.
-Kate.
|
|
|
|
|
lambone
Dec 19, 2004, 7:10 PM
Post #16 of 18
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 1399
|
I know, nice guy...we had fun hanging out in the lodge when it was raining.
I only said newbie because it was his first bigwall attempt ever. Wwhich makes him a newbie in my book.
whatever, glad to hear they made it up Zenyatta! impresive learning curve to say the least!
|
|
|
|
|
holdplease2
Dec 19, 2004, 7:16 PM
Post #17 of 18
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 18, 2002
Posts: 1733
|
Yup, they did a fine job and got down right before a mini-storm hit. Both good guys. Hope you are well,
-Kate.
|
|
|
|
|
stymingersfink
Jan 29, 2005, 8:13 AM
Post #18 of 18
(5316 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 7250
|
Having climbed the Zodiac in October 2004, I would tend to agree with c.mac's estimation of A2 C3+ (NTB, BYM), depending on how you choose to attack it.
I initially started the climb with no iron other than a few beaks, and had some doubt if I would be able to top out solo on the thing in the seven days I had allotted, this being my first solo wall attempt.
After fixing to P2 and the wall kittens decided to join me, all doubt was gone. (One brought a rack of pins, much to my chagrin.) We climbed as a party of 3, so it was merely a matter of how clean we could make it, and just how much adventure we would share.
One of the kittens placed a few copperheads on P9 where Ivo confesed having made beak placements, and after one of her hooks skated and the aforementioned head caught her, I'm glad she did. She also made a couple of LA placements later that I may not have made, but hey, those were her leads.
I placed one sawed angle at the base of the black tower where a green-yellow alien would have sufficed, and took a 25 footer onto a beak above the tower when a two-lobe black alien placement failed. I came to rest about the middle of the tower about 8 feet from the wall. I think the scariest part of the black tower pitch was free-climbin from the belay to the base of the tower with a full rack. All in all, I'd rate the pitch NTB, BYM.
Cam hooking under the nipple to facilitate cleaning was a little spicy, leaving 3 lowerout points. The first one being a fixed arrow with a broken eye in the corner above the anchor, the second was one of the hubers free anchors reached from the bottom step of my aiders, the third a fixed nut about 15 feet from the milk providing region of the nipple. If I had blown one of the cam hooks, I ran the risk of penduluming into my belayer or the open dihedral below the anchor. (NTB)
I think my least favorite pitch on the whole climb was the Mark of Zorro roofs, due solely to rope drag (PITA). I would defiinitely recommend solo-leading this pitch.
It was cool to see that the unnecessary bolts on the 5.10 OW section had been cleaned, bring a 4.5 and a 5 camalot (5 & 6 in the C4 camalots) and crack-jug with 'em, or lieback and cruise. The C4 #6 will come in handy at the nipple, so you'll be carrying it anyway.
All in all, I would say that the American Chopper (vroom-vroom) did an excellent job on cleaning the route, with a few chopped bolt scars barely visible due to their camoflaging effort. All bolts that remain are intelligently located and bomber. Any piece of fixed gear found on the route was immediately suspect.
There were no dead heads to be found, no useless tat, and no wads of duct tape. All tape used by our crew was meticulously cleaned. I advocated removing the head placements as well, though on that pitch it was my turn to jug the haul line, so they remained where placed. Hybrid aliens were key to climbing this route clean.
I would definitely consider climbing this route again in the future, hopefully being able to lead the 9 pitches I missed due to the lead rotation. Perhaps for someone else's first wall?
This spring will be an attempt on ZM. I expect to top out, but then everybody does, right?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
