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metoliusmunchkin
May 2, 2002, 8:54 PM
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In the past within this forum, I have discussed many separate categories of cross training that would thus aid you in your climbing skills. Albeit, I have found that the mentioning of running, in order to help you along the way, has not really become elaborated upon, which is why I am starting this thread consequently.
It has come to my attention (again, based upon another thread started by yours truly in this forum) that in order to become a very good climber, strong cardiovascular skills are not the greatest necessity. Although, it has also come to my attention that it is very important to breathe while climbing. This does not necessarily mean however that one must have strong cardiovascular conjunctions.
I will be the first to admit that I am definitely not the best runner in the world, though I have my moments. During my class' gym period the other day, we were required to do a specific running routine in order to improve our current skills (all in an order of practice for the upcoming track and field events).
I have heard some of you describing the fact that running will not necessarily aid your climbing directly, though can help you in other areas of particular body strengths that will then in turn help your climbing.
Is this true? Have any of you ever found this to be false?
We practiced what our teacher described as being her very own running pyramid, which resembled this:
Running Pyramid
Run One Kilometre
Walk 200 metres
Run 100 metres as fast as you can
Walk 100 metres
Run 200 metres as fast as you can
Walk 200 metres
Run 400 metres as fast as you can
Walk 200 metres
Run 200 metres as fast as you can
Walk 200 metres
Run 100 metres as fast as you can
Walk until you feel slightly rejuvenated
Note: The running being done in the pyramid above is to be done without stopping, with a continuous pace of running/walking.
Do you feel that this is a sufficient run? Would this particular training suffice in order to improve one's favoured climbing techniques?
Speaking of track and field, I would like to ask you also of the proper speed to run, while undergoing a particular jump (whether it be running long jump, triple jump, or high jump - for these are my three events). Are the speeds all the same, or differing for each different jump?
Thanks for your time!
Pat.
[ This Message was edited by: metoliusmunchkin on 2002-05-02 14:26 ]
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miagi
May 2, 2002, 9:21 PM
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For your last question, long jump, you should run as fast as your feet carry you. When you jump, the momentum of how fast you ran will carry you in the air. Triple jump I have no clue. High jump should be a slower run. The momentum of your running should only be enough to carry you over the bar once you jump. It is mostly jumping strength that you need to worry about, and the approach towards the bar. You need to worry more on how many steps you will need to take before you get within jumping distance.
As for the running issue:
Although some climbers think running does not help, I disagree to a point.(even lauren lee says running is good ) Anyways, running can help in different forms of climbing. Any type of climb where you will need endurance (mostly trad but also for longer sport or boulder problems) can be aided if you run. I see alot of people that get the "shakes" in their legs when they are almost finishing the route, or people cramp up really bad. These things can be avioded with a good aerobic workout. Running is aerobic, and although people might think it is for your legs, it works the whole body. First off, for a good full body running workout, you need to use your arms while running. Track coaches always rave on this. Also, it will help you body in terms of oxygen supply and endurance. During track or swimming, your red blood cells are able to acquire more oxygen if you work hard for extended periods of time (weeks). This can help you in climbing because you won't cramp up as easily, and you will have more endurance. Running will also condition your heart to pump blood better which will promote good blood flow, and can help with the cramps and fatigue. Another one of the most important muscle groups that running helps is the abs. If anyone has done some distance running, you know your abs will hurt like hell. If you have strong abs, this can definitly help on overhangs or roofs. I try to run every other day, and sometimes before climbs. If I run before climbs, I usually feel better because my blood is flowing and my muscles are warmed up. I preform really well whenever I run moderately before a climb.
Also, about your workout; Numbers don't really matter. Depending on how much in shape you are should determine how much or how fast you should run. The above workout is one that we have in track. The distance might not be the same or the order, but it's a pyramid none the less. Try this: Since time is on everyone schedual, try to get a good workout within an hour. Plan yourself a workout, and at the end of the hour, if your dead tired and feel like puking, YOU DID GREAT . If your muscles are sore and your tired, your body is being conditioned. After a few weeks, while running the same workout, the pain should go away. It is then, you can flex your workout around to make it a little more difficult if you choose to do so.
[ This Message was edited by: miagi on 2002-05-02 14:24 ]
[ This Message was edited by: miagi on 2002-05-02 14:33 ]
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tyger
May 3, 2002, 12:27 PM
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Along with running I believe that some serious cycling can be very helpful. Really shreds the body fat and works the legs muscles in both pushing and pulling (if you use clips ins). And also builds the cardio-vascular ability.
And you get to look sooo cool in those bike shorts.
Tyger.
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metoliusmunchkin
May 3, 2002, 8:10 PM
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Running is definitely not my strong point, and I have also found this particular aspect of training the most difficult. Though I have now found that I must not overanalyse certain things, and just go to them, as a part of own personal experience. Only then can you distribute your knowledge of that particular aspect. Without knowing, you cannot teach.
Moreover, I would like to simply point out (rather feebly as this will portray the proof of my inexperienced running body) that after doing this personalized pyramid - personalized by my teacher - that my quads are still sore. While this diminishing event was over and done with, I could barely walk from my threshold to the bed, where I then quickly collapsed only to rise much, much, much later.
Running, I find, is one of the greatest forms of training, as it feels as though you are almost free while you're spiralling around your neighbourhood. However, I also believe running to be the most challenging as well.
Would you more experienced runners go so far as to say that this particular pyramid be on the more advanced grasp for the rather virgin runner such as myself? Especially considering the fact that I was completely physically drained during, and after the running training.
What personal running rubrics have the rest of you use?
[ This Message was edited by: metoliusmunchkin on 2002-05-05 20:02 ]
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metoliusmunchkin
May 8, 2002, 9:15 PM
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Just a thought I found worth mentioning...
Today in gym, we worked on the fundamentals of a good start while beginning a sprint. This lead me to think of the advantages of sprinting short distances as fast as possible could help improve your climbing abilities (as last time I merely discussed the effects of long distance running).
Does sprinting really help?
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lilred
May 8, 2002, 9:39 PM
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Running!!!! FUN FUN FUN!!!!!! I love it!
Ok, the question you have to ask yourself is this: What do you want to achieve thru running?
The reason I run is to keep my body "in shape." translation: able to hike to a climbing area without getting winded.
I also run to get my mind off things. Like you said, there is nothing like the feeling of the wind in your face and not having a care in the world...
From what I can tell, the structure of what your coach is making you run will overall improve your middle distance running (anything around 400 to 800 meters) which is a combo between sprinting and long distance.
Are you in track? If so, what events?
Again, it all goes back to what your personal preferences are. I run 3 or 4 miles every Mon Wed and Fri. because I enjoy a medium paced run that isn't too long or too short. (anything over 5 miles, and I'm toast for the next few days)
Anything under really doenst benifit what my goals are. I do however, sprint as fast as I can for the last 500 meters of my run to challenge myself (and its really funny watching everyone's faces when I fly by!)
Sprinting is good for sprinting. It developes differnt muscles that running a 10K would, and the only thing it would benifit relevent to climbing would be your dyno take-off...
You said that your quads hurt....make sure you are warming up, cooling down and stretching TONS...and cottage cheese before you sleep will help (it has tons of glutamine to help your muscle repair and rebuild)
Hope that helps!
Run like the wind!
-M
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mikedano
May 8, 2002, 9:42 PM
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On running:
I'm assuming this has been covered before, but I feel it's worthing mentioning here. Improving your cardiovascular system is good for pretty much everything, climbing included. Although I am unable to point to specifics, being generally fit (especially cardio-wise) is good and makes most any physical acivity easier.
I run several times a week, and generally have more energy available if I'm running consistently. I don't sprint, I run 20-30 minutes several times a week.
A good way to check your progress, and to ensure cardio improvements, is to track your heart rate. This is what I learned in college several years ago: 220 minus your age is your max heart rate. For me that's 220-24, so about 200. What you should work toward is keeping your heart rate at 60-80% of your max for at least 20 minutes several times a week. When I run, I stay at about 80% of my max. Marathon runners and other athletes can keep their heart rate at 90-95% of their max for extended periods of time.
By improving your cardio you can do harder things for longer periods of time without your heart exploding. And that's got to be good for climbing.
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iclimbtoo
May 8, 2002, 10:39 PM
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Metoliusmunchkin...if you have some specific questions on running (speeds, times, etc.), PM me. I'll be happy to answer you, I'm just short of time now and have to jet, sorry.
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daggerx
May 9, 2002, 1:01 AM
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I cant run worth a crap, I have trouble running for more then 1 and 1/2 or 2 miles stright yet I can bike for 10 miles and be fine. I dont understand it.
\
DaggerX
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tofattoclimb
May 16, 2002, 8:02 PM
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munchkin what you did was called (I mock you not) fartlek training and, well, its only advantage to climbing wolud be a genral improvement in your C/V fittness as would be used in a long climb or traverse c/v fittness in the basis of any sport so keep on running buddy (no pun intended!!!)
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roclymber
May 25, 2002, 1:52 PM
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A lot of people don't know this, but the perfect sport activity to loose weight, and get in shape is in fact running. This along with cycling and basically any other aerobic activity can get anyone in shape in almost no time.
The benefits to running have been posted, and as far as I can tell, there isn't a single negative effect to it, especially any that could hamper a climber's performance.
It is by far one of the best ways to get into shape, and one of my fav sports('sides climbing) and If everyone started running, we'd all be awesome climbers.
-matt
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cragchica
Jun 7, 2002, 5:53 PM
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As a runner by background, of course I'll say running is great. I run marathons, but you don't need to run 90 miles a week to feel the benefits of running. Fartlek training is great. Fartlek is swedish (i think) for 'speedplay' and involves running at a medium pace with intermittant burts of speed. The workouts are much more free-form than a traditional track-based speed workout - and a lot more fun. Running on the track can be monotonous and boring. With fartlek runs you can run anywhere you want. Say you're running trails up at Red Rocks, Nevada... you could run along at an even pace (about 70% of your max effort) until you hit the first of the Kraft boulders, then say to yourself now I'm going run at 90% until I hit the monkey bars boulder, then I'll run another 15 min at 70% and repeat. It's like playing games with yourself... making up little goals improving both speed and endurance. Running of any kind will help with cardio conditioning and is also good for ab strength and endurance training.
Run hard, climb hard. Good luck!
Andria
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cragchica
Jun 7, 2002, 5:56 PM
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Forgot to mention:
I started competing in triathlon when I came to college. It is the best mix of sports for general athletic conditioning. I highly recommend it. It can be incredibly time consuming if you get really committed, but even a little training in running, biking and swimming can be quite beneficial. Plus, it's tons of fun. When I can't climb I train for triathlon, when I can't train for triathlon, I climb. I can hardly imagine my life without either sport.
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cedk
Jun 7, 2002, 6:12 PM
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I've found that running can be very therapeutic. Especially if you've come back from Vietnam and made millions in the shrimp industry but still find yourself feeling sad and alone because your mother has died and your childhood sweetheart, who had been living with you, took off one night without so much as a see you later.
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dmon
Jun 11, 2002, 11:17 AM
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Running, and aerobic exercise in general will help with at least 2 aspects of your climbing:
1). Regular aerobic exercise leads to you having more mitochondria (basically the powerhouse of the cell). This means you can produce more ATP (the cell's power source), and hence your body as a whole is more efficient.
2) Aerobic exercise will lower your resting heart rate, increase your heart's stroke volume and lead to denser capillarisation around your body. Basically this means that your body can distribute oxygen better. This will help especially on routes where you are pushing yourself. When your muscles start to "burn", you have too much lactic acid in them. This results from anaerobic respiration (ie no oxygen in your muscles). Biochemically, lactate is the final electron acceptor rather than oxygen. If your body is better at distributing oxygen, you can climb longer before this happens.
SO, aerobic exercise WILL help with your climbing in these ways and those already listed. BUT if you don't enjoy running, you won't stick with it. So pick something you enjoy (running, cycling, rowing whatever) and try to do the 60-80% of your max heart rate thing mentioned above. If this is too hard, just make sure you are able too talk- this is another indicator that what you are doing is aerobic and not anaerobic.
Just for the record, I love running! Best way to deal with stress from exams - I probably do about 40km a week during my exam period!
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tim
Jun 11, 2002, 12:34 PM
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It almost seems like people are deliberately glossing over the best reason for climbers to run -- it makes you skinnier. Skinnier you == less weight to haul up the rock == harder climber. I tacked on a full number grade when I dropped 8 pounds (on the drink-and-drop-X diet in San Francisco... not intentional, I just accidentally ate less while swimming and biking and running... shit, I just now realize, I was doing that triathlon-training thing!). Of course if you already have 5% body fat or are training for the Olympics in XC Skiing then my experience is totally irrelevant to you...
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deafclimber
Jun 11, 2002, 12:54 PM
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i love running. as starting to work out, you can run or walk for a mile or two so your body will get used so you can increase ur miles on running every 3 or 4 week. i do 20 miles a week. that is enuf for me.
"Just do it" - NIKE
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rippdclimber
Jun 13, 2002, 4:44 AM
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If climbing is your sole focus, then running should not be. Running, for the reasons metioned (i.e. improved recovery, and weight loss,) is good for climbing. Good runners however are not nessarily going to be good climbers. Climbing is the best training for climbing.
I would not recomened sprinting for climbers. Sprinting devolps mass and power in the legs. Mass will hinder your climbing ability, and the added power in the legs is not really worth it. Legs are rarely to weak for a climb, the fingers and back are just about always the limiting factor in a persons climbing.
Josh
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wiegs
Jun 13, 2002, 5:55 PM
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How about plyometrics? Anyone use those for training? They really help your explosiveness...but as I am a new climber, I really don't know what all I lack, and continue to train, or not train, as I have done for my other sports....
[ This Message was edited by: wiegs on 2002-06-13 10:56 ]
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