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bringmedeath
Dec 24, 2004, 9:45 PM
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Why in the hell does he feel the need to remove the route descriptions about El Cap routes? Has he climbed any of those? This is fuccking pathetic! Adam you are a fuccking loser! Why fucck up stuff you know nothing about? Are you really that big of a fucck head? Sure looks that way!
Title changed cause the fuccker who it's about will probably delete it.
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oldsalt
Dec 24, 2004, 9:51 PM
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I can't remember what bringmedeath was griping about, but I can't forget what a pathetic post. Here goes the ignore button.
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holdplease2
Dec 24, 2004, 10:07 PM
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rrradam:
You are incredibly lame doing that, probably just b/c you and pete are in some kind of a girl fight.
How 'bout limiting your edits to routes you have climbed?
This is Bullshit.
-Kate.
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scubasnyder
Dec 24, 2004, 10:30 PM
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why do u post the same thing like 3 times chill out no1 really cares only you, if the routes there and you know about it, why B*tch about it, you have the info its all u need.
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addiroids
Dec 24, 2004, 10:32 PM
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I say this as a friend Adam, don't moderate sh!t you can't or won't do. Who cares if Pete is a ____________ (insert nasty word here), he took the time to give some detail on these hard routes, and it isn't for you to take that down. When you take down good stuff, you are doing bad stuff. Don't be bad dude.
Lame.
Lame.
Lame.
TRADitionally yours,
Cali Dirtbag
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holdplease2
Dec 24, 2004, 11:04 PM
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Hey Guys, maybe lets try to consolidate our posts, maybe to the "Ban rrrAdam" thread, with three circulating, comments will get lost...
Someone should change the title so it doesn't get deleted.
-Kate.
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holdplease2
Dec 24, 2004, 11:10 PM
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For the record, I posted in the other thread...
Hey Martha: I PMed you with a list of routes edited on the 19th, as well as what I belive to be the text of one of the descriptions prior to the 19th, which I copied into another document, but I can't be 100% on it...
Check rrradams edits to the El Cap routes database. He deleted the descriptions for:
Lost in America
Zenyatta Mondatta
Zodiac
East Ledges Descent
Reticent Wall
Sea of Dreams
Iron Hawk
West Face
Salathe Wall
Jolly Roger
ALL OF THIS WAS DONE ON DECEMBER 19th...quality route descriptions on many of these existed prior to December 19th.
Lame. Unless it was an unintentional mistake or there was some GOOD reason.
If there is a good reason, like it matches another book too closely, send me the old descriptions, I'll rewrite them, and post them. If it was a mistake, then its a weird one, lets get it fixed.
Thanks for your help, mods and admins.
-Kate.
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holdplease2
Dec 25, 2004, 12:08 AM
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Thank you, Martha.
I'm sure there is a good explanation. Sorry I was overly pissy, hopefully you all will work it out and we will all behave until then.
:)
-Kate.
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mingleefu
Dec 25, 2004, 6:51 AM
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(was: "Ban RRRADAM!") Why did that thread get locked? It can be found HERE.
I think that his deleting route descriptions should be looked into. As others have said before- If he had supplemented that information with better info, that would be fine. But those switches should be made right away. There should be zero time without content.
Please don't flood this thread with banter. add to it constructively, or bump it if you have interest, but please don't spam it. For once, keep it real.
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epic_ed
Dec 25, 2004, 7:00 AM
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I fully explained this in my last post to the original thread I locked.
It was locked because Adam is being accused of doing something that he may or may not have done. It would have been more tactful to have it brought up to a mod or an admin via a PM instead of three post to different forums about the same topic.
If there is a goose to be cooked, and the routes were maliciously removed for no reason then I will open the original thread back up for discussion. But right now no one knows for certain who deleted that information or why. I will not allow a thread (or multiple threads) to develope into a witch hunt over something that may have a very simple explanation.
We (mods and admins) are aware that this topic is a concern and I'm personally very interested to get explanation for what's up. Answers will be found, the problem will be addressed, and locking the topic doesn't mean its' being ignored.
It's CHRISTMAS, for fucks sake! Could everyone just take a freakin pill about this issue until we have some facts? Please understand that some of the people in question who would be able to answer what happened and why may not be back on this site for a couple of days.
Ed
epic_ed has locked this thread.
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rrrADAM
Dec 27, 2004, 6:30 PM
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Sorry, I've not been online to catch all this recent "drama".
I was contacted via email concerning misinformation regarding some of the info Pete had put in... The person suggested I dlete all routes Pete had put up, but I thought it prudent to only delete the route info that Pete had basically made as an alternate ascent (i.e. Personal info, spray, and fluff...), and left the routes that actually contain good route beta. The purpose of the RDB is to provide route beta, not accounts of drinking beer, and where to have campfires on the wall.
Despite what the drama queens want to believe, it has nothing to do with Pete, as I have deleted info even my friends have put in the RDB at times... The only difference is that they are still members so I can send them a PM explaining why. This is not the first time I have been contacted via PM or email concerning info in the RDB, and like always, I look into it, and act on a case by case basis.
If I were just deleting Pete's stuff, I would have just deleted them all, but I left the ones that do contain usefull beta, as they belong there.
To those who asked for the info prior to assuming I was just deleteing Pete's stuff because I had some petty vendeta, kudos. :wink:
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rrrADAM
Dec 27, 2004, 7:34 PM
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I was contacted via email concerning misinformation regarding some of the info Pete had put in... The person suggested I dlete all routes Pete had put up, but I thought it prudent to only delete the route info that Pete had basically made as an alternate ascent (i.e. Personal info, spray, and fluff...), and left the routes that actually contain good route beta. The purpose of the RDB is to provide route beta, not accounts of drinking beer, and where to have campfires on the wall.
Despite what the drama queens want to believe, it has nothing to do with Pete, as I have deleted info even my friends have put in the RDB at times... The only difference is that they are still members so I can send them a PM explaining why. This is not the first time I have been contacted via PM or email concerning info in the RDB, and like always, I look into it, and act on a case by case basis.
If I were just deleting Pete's stuff, I would have just deleted them all, but I left the ones that do contain usefull beta, as they belong there.
To those who asked for the info prior to assuming I was just deleteing Pete's stuff because I had some petty vendeta, kudos.
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holdplease2
Dec 27, 2004, 7:41 PM
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Here is what I have as the info deleted from Zenyatta Mondatta...(correct me if I am wrong:
Description: Sharpen up your hooks for this classic Bridwell line, cuz you're gonna need 'em. The route requires a lot of heads, so bring plenty in case it has been cleaned recently. Extra nylon and duct tape for slinging rocks and taping down hooks is always a good idea on this kind of climb. Watch out for loose rock - most of it is gone but there's still plenty of potential to knock more off. Zenyatta Mondatta is a cunning line that deviously works it way between miniature features while following thin lines of weakness. It is remarkable for its intensity - continuously sustained, this is a route that just keeps comin' at ya. Though you'll never find anything truly desperate, you do have to keep thinking all the time. While your belayer sits on a classic-sized ledge at the top of 4 (2' x 4' - back against the wall, knees bent over the edge) you can make 10 or 11 hook moves in a row to start the next pitch. On the Casual Rating System, that pitch would be NTB but DFU! There are a number of places where you can take a pretty big whipper if you blow it, particularly on pitches 8, 10, 12 and 13. There is but a single "gimme" pitch, the 14th, unless you don't consider a horizontal hook traverse and enough bends in your rope to make it looked like a python kinked with arthritis a "gimme".You'll climb from 7:30 to 9 o'clock to 10:30 on the White Circle, and get good views of the clusterf*ck traffic jams on Zodiac. You'll love the Lightning Bolt and Nine O'Clock Roofs, while the start of P9 follows a perfect diagonalling crack - with every pin tied off, it's a Lefty Nailing Classic. At the top of 12, don't belay on the slab as Chris Mac suggests, take the perfect ledge 30' below it. Duh.
Having climbed the route, I find it accurate.
Why was it deleted? (Again, correct me if I am wrong)
-Kate.
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holdplease2
Dec 27, 2004, 7:43 PM
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Who contacted you with misinformation and request, rrrAdam?
Did they offer to rewrite the descriptions? Did you ask them to correct what was wrong?
-Kate.
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rrrADAM
Dec 27, 2004, 8:34 PM
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rrradam has unlocked this thread.
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atg200
Dec 27, 2004, 9:05 PM
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adam, this was a very bad idea. i don't buy that your personal feelings about pete have nothing to do with it, and i bet most others won't either.
its not like you've done or will ever do any of those routes, so the best idea would have been to contact someone else who has done some el cap routes to take care of this. sounds like the person emailing you had a vendetta as well if he/she suggested taking down all of pete's info.
put the info back...
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rrrADAM
Dec 27, 2004, 9:21 PM
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In reply to: adam, this was a very bad idea. i don't buy that your personal feelings about pete have nothing to do with it, and i bet most others won't either. its not like you've done or will ever do any of those routes, so the best idea would have been to contact someone else who has done some el cap routes to take care of this. sounds like the person emailing you had a vendetta as well if he/she suggested taking down all of pete's info. put the info back...
I unlocked this thread, as I thought it prudent to allow more discussion, although I'm not gonna split hairs...
I made a judgment call based on what the complaint was, it had merit, as the RDB is for info not fluff and personal spray. I didn't delete all the route descriptions he had entered, as I left what I thought was solid route beta, and deleted those with fluff and were made more as "ascents" or TRs. Bad choice ??? Maybe, as it would have been much better just to delete the fluff and spray, instead of the entire route description. Should I have asked users who have done the routes to look at them ??? Yep, this sounds like the best coarse of action, but then hindsight is 20/20. I can't put the routes back, as I don't have the ability to do that, but Tim can, and has alluded to it. Me doing this had nothing to do with my feelings toward Pete, as I had stated in my above reply, "I have deleted routes enetered in by friends as well, but they are still members so I can PM them as to why..." Does it look like a vendeta, I'm sure it does to those who wish to see it that way.
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atg200
Dec 27, 2004, 10:47 PM
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In reply to: So please, let's let it go and move on. Go climb a mountain or something.
Way to be condescending!
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epic_ed
Dec 27, 2004, 11:36 PM
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Legit questions, Kate. I hope you get a response. I've expressed my opinion and made a proposal in the M&E forum about how to proceed -- I'm waiting for some feedback. Hopefully I'll have more to comment on later.
Ed
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rrrADAM
Dec 27, 2004, 11:46 PM
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Sorry... There seem to be a few threads about this, so I unlocked this one to continue any further discussion if needed, and have replied there...
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=969069
I don't think it'd be best to have many different threads discussing the same thing, alse we'd all just start repeating ourselves.
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epic_ed
Dec 27, 2004, 11:54 PM
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Ah -- missed it. I'll merge the two threads.
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epic_ed
Dec 28, 2004, 12:02 AM
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FYI -- I deleted two of my posts and two from Adam after I merged the two threads that were open about this topic. All posts were redundant or out of place in the context of the merged topics, and no pertinent info was eliminated.
Ed
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dingus
Dec 28, 2004, 12:06 AM
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I must say, this whole epsiode is unequivocal proof that user data is not well respected at rockclimbing.com.
Providing beta for a route the submitter did not climb is a questionable activity.
But deleting beta for a route the deleter did not climb is equally questionable. Unless the deleter owns the data. Which is clearly the case at hand. The deleter effectively owns the data.
Defending the edits of routes not climbed is inexcusable. I'd sooner you just delete every vestage of Pete rather than start editing his words. First you accept Pete's submissions. Then you ban Pete from the site. Yet you continue to host his submissions (with his permission I gather), presumably accumulating hits in the process. And now you condone editing those submissions from the banned author. He can't defend his posts. He can't delete them. The author can't argue, has no say at all. You have effectively stolen his words. He gave them freely and you banned him and now you edit his legacy.
Editors! You MUST recuse yourself from editing routes you have not climbed! Your souls are at stake. It really is a bad thing to do. That is not drama. That is ComeAround-GoesAround 101.
And really, its time to rewelcome Pete Zabrok or delete his legacy in its entirety. That rc.com would continue to profit from a banned author is indefensible.
DMT
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dirtineye
Dec 28, 2004, 12:31 AM
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In reply to: And really, its time to rewelcome Pete Zabrok or delete his legacy in its entirety. That rc.com would continue to profit from a banned author is indefensible. DMT
Actually it's time to put up real evidence thus shutting down the Pete supporters, or shut up and apologise for banning him in the first place.
At first I believed the claims about Pete, but after seeing the rumor mill in action on rc.com, until someone shows me PROOF as in an indictment or arrest record, a negative verdict or official charges made to stick on Pete, he's innocent in my mind unless he walks up to me and spouts the virtues of kiddy porn and shows me pictures.
You would think that since possessing child porn is a crime all by itself, that something would have happened to Pete by now if the rumors were true.
All this machiavellian behind closed doors BS is fine if your role model is some third world banana repubic, or cold war intrigue, or Orwell's 1984, but really, why not bring the truth out in the open and let everyone see for themselves once and for all, what is the F_ing deal?
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holdplease2
Dec 28, 2004, 12:38 AM
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rrrAdam and Management:
Sorry for being kinda bitchy. I know your jobs aren't easy, and we all expect you to be perfect. You are allowed to be dumb-arses sometimes, just like the rest of us. ;)
So, if you guys want to send me the other beta, I can run it past some of my friends, re-edit it, with the help of Ed and Chris, and we'll get the data back up there.
You know, with 1000+ posts, I've never made waves about anything here. But if you look at how many times a day I click on those routes and descriptions, you'd understand why I care so much. El Cap is my favorite thing in the world, and reading and looking at its topos is what I do all day.
So thanks again, and rrrAdam, sorry for calling such attention to it, even if you were wrong. I was being a pain and should have PMed. And it was a cheap shot about the whole pete thing, I should have checked dates on the deletions vs the, um, 'bitch slapping' before jumping to conclusion. :(
-Kate.
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