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iowanclimber
Jan 3, 2005, 8:21 AM
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I sent in an order for a new ATC for the usual $20. I opened up the box today and found not an ATC but a set of Jumar rope ascenders. I planned on someday getting some ascenders but since i have them now.... The best part is that i was charged for the ATC $20 and received the ascenders worth around $130. Just curious what people think of Jumar Ascenders. All i know of them is that they are ol school and classics.
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mingleefu
Jan 3, 2005, 9:33 AM
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Registered: May 24, 2003
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To the best of my knowledge, Jumars are the only peice of gear that is so much a part of climbing that the name has become a verb. ATC's have become a generic name for a tube-style belay device, but a person can "jumar" a rope.
They're classic for a reason. Be sure to tie them off right though. I don't even know how to do that (I have petzl), but you can find some info on a google search.
ethically speaking...Have you attempted to contact the shipper? You're probably pretty excited to have a pair of $20 jumars, but someone else may have a $130 ATC.
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grigriese
Jan 3, 2005, 10:25 AM
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I just love honest people...
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gunksgoer
Jan 3, 2005, 1:52 PM
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mmm bad karma bad karma
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slobmonster
Jan 3, 2005, 9:42 PM
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Registered: Jul 28, 2003
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My dad recently ordered a digital camera online, from a huge retailer. Instead of the item he wanted, they sent him a funky photo printer. Its value was less than that of the camera he had paid for. Obviously, he called customer service and will be getting his camera.
You are simply the beneficiary of someone else's incompetence. If you choose to return the Jumars, good for you, but there will be no direct reward or discount for your honesty. Just as you are warned "caveat emptor," in this case "caveat venditor" will have to suffice.
And there is no such thing as "good" or "bad" karma... it's just karma.
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iowanclimber
Jan 4, 2005, 4:01 AM
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well thanks for the info on em and the advice but i ve already sent in an email saying what happened, did that last night.... i was planning on doing that anyway, you ve gotta give me the benefit of the doubt, cause i figure the company will just send out the ATC soon and i ll be happy. I am still waiting for their reply, just hoping that they say keep em', if not nothing lost.... :D
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timstich
Jan 4, 2005, 4:16 AM
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Jumars are great. I prefer them over my Petzl ascenders, mainly because I like to grab the area around the top to move them up the rope instead of using the handle. As with anything, YMMV.
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the_dude
Jan 4, 2005, 5:15 AM
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I've used mine for over 8 years now and love them. They're heavy, but will last forever. I've never tied mine off, or rigged them with webbing, and never had a problem with them without doing so. I think rigging them was for the older grey models.
Cheers
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timstich
Jan 4, 2005, 5:40 AM
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Both Jumars and ascenders like them need to be suplemented with a carabiner through the larger hole on the bottom to prevent the unit from torquing off the rope on a traverse. The carabiner is attached to both the hole and the rope you are traversing/ascending. Ascenders with a fully enclosed shell don't have this problem, which is why a Gibbs or Microascender makes an excellent backup.
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ricardol
Jan 4, 2005, 6:35 AM
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i have jumars .. and i find that the petzl ascenders are a bit more ergonomic ..
anyways -- in the old days people wouild run webbing from the front to the back holes .. because some time ago jumars could break .. (bad manufacturing?) ..
.. anyways .. i dont think thats a problem anymore .. so i dont rig mine that way .. i've also avoided rigging my ascenders with a carabiner on the bottom (this is to avoid them popping off the rope).
i dont do this because i clean with a jumar + grigri (plus a knot backup) .. so there is no need to backup the jumar.
.. i have had a jumar come off the rope -- its a pretty surprising thing ..
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mingleefu
Jan 4, 2005, 8:13 AM
Post #11 of 19
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Registered: May 24, 2003
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just to wrap up any remaining fears, ricardol described the kind of tie-off I had seen before. I didn't know the how or why, but I guess that settles it.
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chriss
Jan 4, 2005, 9:15 PM
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It was recommended to tie-off the older grey Jumars a particular way. This older style did not have a clip-in hole at the bottom like the newer (yellow) style.
It was reported that people were tying off the grey models incorrectly. By tying webbing around the lower section for a clip-in point. This allowed more stress on the narrow "rope side" instead of the larger "hand side". This, and the fact that the ascender got banged around alot on the "rope side", lead to a few cracks.
The newer (yellow) version has been reinforced and has a clip-in hole.
I have the older gray Jumars. I have mine tied off. I would also recommend tying off the yellow ones. Mainly because I don't care for the potential of twisting at the carabiner/Jumar contact hole. A flexiable webbing joint there would prevent any chance of bending or cracking due to twisting of 2 rigid pieces. But I also recommend following the manufacturers reccomendations.
chris
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timstich
Jan 5, 2005, 2:00 AM
Post #13 of 19
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In reply to: .. i have had a jumar come off the rope -- its a pretty surprising thing ..
I had one of my Petzl handled jammers pop off a vertical rope once. It was only on a 60ft pit, but damn if it wasn't surprising to me as well. I used to use a Gibbs as my back-up and would push it above the other two ascenders. When I wanted to rest, I'd set it.
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ricardol
Jan 5, 2005, 2:55 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: .. i have had a jumar come off the rope -- its a pretty surprising thing .. I had one of my Petzl handled jammers pop off a vertical rope once. It was only on a 60ft pit, but damn if it wasn't surprising to me as well. I used to use a Gibbs as my back-up and would push it above the other two ascenders. When I wanted to rest, I'd set it.
now that sounds scary .. a vertical rope .. my "pop-off" occurred while doing a lower-out (incorrectly) ..
.. i've had the bad habit of not backing up vertical ascending .. (like when going up fixed lines to the heart) .. i thought there was basically no chance thaat your jumars would fail on a vertical rope .. it does feel a bit exposed to be 500+ feet up el cap with only 2 ascenders holding you onto the rope ..
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moondog
Jan 5, 2005, 3:09 AM
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Registered: Nov 25, 2002
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In reply to: I had one of my Petzl handled jammers pop off a vertical rope once.
Hey Tim
Was the jammer loaded when it came off...or was it being moved on the rope?
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crimp2bfree
Jan 6, 2005, 5:06 PM
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I have a pair of old grey Jumar's that were my dad's when he was a teenager. They're like 25-30 years old now!! I used to use them to climb fixed ropes I set in trees in my yard. Being a smart 12 year old i figured my 60 ft of braided nylon home depot rope was good for this. I didn't want to chew up my climbing rope and hell I wasn't all that heavy at the time. To make things scetchier, my setup was a set foot loops off the lower assender and I was tied into the upper one. I think I got the setup idea from the 2nd edition of Freedom of the Hills. There were no backup or anything and I knew nothing of the tying into the upper holes in addition to the lower.
So as you can see there are simply lots of things wrong with this. I was with a friend of mine and had just climbed up 25ft into a tree. Instead of rapping I often down jugged for some reason. So clipped into only one assender, I crawl off the branch I was on. In this process the assender I am tied to get torqued sideways, and in combination with my spectacular rope that gets rather thin when stretched, it pops off just as I weight it. I see this happen, and lunge for the rope. Gripping the rope I slide down about 15ft before recognizing the pain in my hands and letting go falling the last 8-10ft. I hit the ground, amazed that I am still alive. My friend is just in shock. THEN I REALLY NOTICE THE PAIN IN MY HANDS. Sliding down 15ft of rope really fast apparently produces lots of heat. I didn't break the skin, but it was some of the worse pain I have ever experienced. :twisted: I all pretty exciting, but damn did it hurt. I sat with my hands in a bowl of ice water for about 3 hours. I don't think my mom every really grasped what I had done, which is a good thing because I would have had no more climbing gear.
Needless to say, I have learned a few things since then. On another note, anyone still use their old grey Jumar's. I've used them at the gym when cleaning walls a few times recently, but thats only 20 ft. I don't think I'd use them anywhere else really. I'm thinking of designating them for slackline rigging only.
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dingus
Jan 6, 2005, 5:14 PM
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In reply to: THEN I REALLY NOTICE THE PAIN IN MY HANDS. Sliding down 15ft of rope really fast apparently produces lots of heat. I didn't break the skin, but it was some of the worse pain I have ever experienced. :twisted: I all pretty exciting, but damn did it hurt. I sat with my hands in a bowl of ice water for about 3 hours.
I did that to my hand rappelling once. Now unfortunately I've felt worse pain since. But amen brah, that hurt like holy fucking hell and it just got worse and worse for about 2 hours.
I burnt a goove in my hand even though it didn't break the skin. This was like 1982 or something. I still have that trough to this day. Pretty good for holding securely onto a flute if you get my drift!
DMT
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moondog
Jan 6, 2005, 5:48 PM
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Registered: Nov 25, 2002
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In reply to: Now unfortunately I've felt worse pain since.
I can imagine. Man, gripping a "flute" :wink: for 2 hours shows amazing fortitude and determination!
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ryan112ryan
Jan 6, 2005, 10:33 PM
Post #19 of 19
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Registered: Aug 22, 2002
Posts: 312
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In reply to: I have a pair of old grey Jumar's that were my dad's when he was a teenager. They're like 25-30 years old now!! I used to use them to climb fixed ropes I set in trees in my yard. Being a smart 12 year old i figured my 60 ft of braided nylon home depot rope was good for this. I didn't want to chew up my climbing rope and hell I wasn't all that heavy at the time. To make things scetchier, my setup was a set foot loops off the lower assender and I was tied into the upper one. I think I got the setup idea from the 2nd edition of Freedom of the Hills. There were no backup or anything and I knew nothing of the tying into the upper holes in addition to the lower. So as you can see there are simply lots of things wrong with this. I was with a friend of mine and had just climbed up 25ft into a tree. Instead of rapping I often down jugged for some reason. So clipped into only one assender, I crawl off the branch I was on. In this process the assender I am tied to get torqued sideways, and in combination with my spectacular rope that gets rather thin when stretched, it pops off just as I weight it. I see this happen, and lunge for the rope. Gripping the rope I slide down about 15ft before recognizing the pain in my hands and letting go falling the last 8-10ft. I hit the ground, amazed that I am still alive. My friend is just in shock. THEN I REALLY NOTICE THE PAIN IN MY HANDS. Sliding down 15ft of rope really fast apparently produces lots of heat. I didn't break the skin, but it was some of the worse pain I have ever experienced. :twisted: I all pretty exciting, but damn did it hurt. I sat with my hands in a bowl of ice water for about 3 hours. I don't think my mom every really grasped what I had done, which is a good thing because I would have had no more climbing gear. Needless to say, I have learned a few things since then. On another note, anyone still use their old grey Jumar's. I've used them at the gym when cleaning walls a few times recently, but thats only 20 ft. I don't think I'd use them anywhere else really. I'm thinking of designating them for slackline rigging only.
lol i rember that, i was the friend in shock when you fell
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