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skinner
Jan 29, 2005, 8:00 PM
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Top Stepping your Aiders - is nutz
(or at least it feel that way)
Warning.. looong question/comment
Hrrmm.. I don’t know about ya’ll, but the few times that I attempted to top-step my aiders on a.. not even over-hanging but a flawless vertical face, I discovered the meaning of fear, and retreated all wobbly-legged back down to the second step.. the envelope of my comfort zone.
But when it came to anything that was even slightly over-hanging, even the second step would induce the wobblies.
I saw a photo once of some freak bent over backwards under a roof, and if he wasn’t in the top step of his aiders, he was damn close to it. I just conceded to the fact that he was either super-human or possessed some sort of magical aiders which empowered him to levitate while posing in a banana like shape.
Like all magic I figured there must be a trick and was determined to demystify it for myself. I have seen a lot of reference on rc.com to “Top-Stepping”, using opposing force, or like the dude in the photo, just using “The Force”. I have never heard any mention of what I found works for me and has prevented the wobblies from rearing their ugly head (so far).
I don’t actually use the top step, other then for occasionally clipping sh*t on. It is the second step that after a quick wrap around the back of my leg/calf, and then stepping into, that I too have been able to defy gravity and pull of some freakish looking moves. I have even crossed a set of aiders that were far enough apart to ensure death by the splits had I used them as they were.
I was just wondering if anyone else did this? The half-calf-wrap ?
(I think they sell this at Starbucks)
*Side note- one day well showing a friend the super-human freak photo, he pointed out to me that the few trees in the corner of the photo were all growing at a 45 degree angle. After rotating the photo so that the trees were perpendicular to the ground.. It turned out that the freak wasn’t super-human after all. As a matter of fact, I have no idea why he was even using aiders. It looked like he was more or lass standing on a slab!
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moof
Jan 29, 2005, 8:24 PM
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Registered: Oct 17, 2003
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"Need is the mother of all invention."
I dispenced with my normal aiders long before getting proficient with them. On leaning tower I got pretty darn proficient with my homemade russian aiders. By the last few pitches I was confidently top-ringing it on slightly overhung stuff most of the time. Earlier on it totally freaked me out.
Keep practicing.
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lambone
Jan 29, 2005, 9:02 PM
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In reply to: I was just wondering if anyone else did this? The half-calf-wrap ?
I think you may have invented a new technique, better check with dangle first though...
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skinner
Jan 30, 2005, 12:21 AM
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Actually, dangle and "friends" in the (Zion climbing history) thread http://www.rockclimbing.com/...iewtopic.php?t=79572
with six-shooters blazing, made for some pretty interesting (entertaining) reading. :D
I was reading that thread until 3:00AM :shock:
But that "bringmedeath" character?
.. needs some serious psychological help!
I welcome anyones comments on Top Stepping though!
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harrisha
Jan 30, 2005, 1:18 AM
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Didn't Ron Ovlonsky do a clean aid video just a while ago that outlines his technique for top steping that eliminates "the wooblies." Try searching for it. I think Ron is a member of the site too.
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lambone
Jan 30, 2005, 1:19 AM
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yup Ron is dangle and that's what I was reffering to. :wink:
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harrisha
Jan 30, 2005, 1:42 AM
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In reply to: yup Ron is dangle and that's what I was reffering to. :wink:
Thanks for clearing that one up. For some reason I thought it was just Ron Ovlonsky(Sp.).
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dmckj
Feb 5, 2005, 7:39 PM
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Registered: May 7, 2004
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Just thought I'd throw in my two cents.
Long, long ago, I learned the 'opposing' foot technique from someone in Yosemite, I think. I am about 90% certain I didn't learn it from Dangle. I thought EVERYBODY knew the technique, but from reading these reads it is apparent they don't. Maybe Dangle is the source, but I don't think so.
I always top step on stuff anything up to about 80 degrees using this technique. Further, I only use ONE set of aiders. The technique IS awkward at first, but once you get it down it saves you lots of time and energy.
I recall years ago talking to, and reading stuff by, Middendorff and Long on aid climbing. I laughed when they said 'real' aid climbers use two sets of aiders. Huh? I always looked upon those who 'needed' two sets of aiders as not knowing how to aid climb. Sorry, no offense, but I still feel that way.
My advice....clean up your aid technique and practice using ONLY one set of aiders. I do recommend (if your aiders don't already have them) a double loop adjacent to your aider top step. This allows you to use two feet and shift weight back and forth to avoid getting too tired. It works.
For steeper stuff it is absurd to top step unless you are 'going for' a really good placement that will save you an additional move. If so, the time and energy is worth stretching it a little bit. If not, you are exhausting yourself to no good end. On the steep stuff you should almost always aim for attaching yourself as close in as possible to your uppermost piece, unless it is a dead flat horizontal roof in which case you obviously don't want to do that.
Other 'advice'......I notice that the vast majority of aid climbers have a singular REALLY bad habit (this most notably includes Dangle): not backcleaning as you go. While leading I am constantly backcleaning all my less than bomber pieces as long as I have decent pieces to fall on. This enables me to carry less gear overall and to push the pitches farther. It also avoids the dead-time of calling for more gear from your belayer. Further, it allows the pitch to be at least half cleaned already, and the leader can re-wrack all of this while the second is jugging. If you are religious about this it will save you HUGE amounts of time and allow you to carry much less gear.
And leave that second set of aiders behind....
D
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ron_jeremy
Feb 5, 2005, 8:31 PM
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
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Wait a minute, I'm confused. First off, I hate aid climbing. Well, it's cool when you're done but doing it sucks, basically saying I'm a noob at it (WFLT only aid climbing I've done).
Dave, are you trying to say that you should only use one aider instead of two or two instead of four. I've never heard of using four or one so I'm confused by this.
BTW, Omakulate Conception is not a 5-star route, and is not one of the best routes in Washington (come on Dude, people from Seattle and Spokane use this site, where's the love).
But it's pretty darn good.
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stymingersfink
Feb 5, 2005, 9:33 PM
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In reply to: Just thought I'd throw in my two cents. (snip) Other 'advice'......I notice that the vast majority of aid climbers have a singular REALLY bad habit (this most notably includes Dangle): not backcleaning as you go. While leading I am constantly backcleaning all my less than bomber pieces as long as I have decent pieces to fall on. This enables me to carry less gear overall and to push the pitches farther. It also avoids the dead-time of calling for more gear from your belayer. Further, it allows the pitch to be at least half cleaned already, and the leader can re-wrack all of this while the second is jugging. If you are religious about this it will save you HUGE amounts of time and allow you to carry much less gear. And leave that second set of aiders behind.... D
Second that. I will leave anything requiring a hammer to clean, such as a well placed pecker, or a solid nut. Cams travel with me, and if I'm getting run out i'll try to make the next placement a bomber nut.
One thing to keep in mind however, is how the pitch will be to clean. If you back-clean everything, will your second need to re-aid the section, or just leave a piece to lower out from. If the second will require a lower-out and that piece is a cam that YOU placed, don't get pissed at them for leaving it behind. Afterall, it was your failure to mitigate the 7 P's thazt resulted in it being left behind.
If the rope is running slightly to one side or the other, it's fine to run it out, provided the second can reach across and clean the piece once they hang plumb from the next piece. All in all, don't run it out more than you might feel comfortable doing so while free-climbing.
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skinner
Feb 5, 2005, 10:11 PM
Post #11 of 14
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In reply to: Just thought I'd throw in my two cents. I only use ONE set of aiders. For steeper stuff it is absurd to top step unless you are 'going for' a really good placement that will save you an additional move. Other 'advice'......I notice that the vast majority of aid climbers have a singular REALLY bad habit (this most notably includes Dangle): not backcleaning as you go. it will save you HUGE amounts of time and allow you to carry much less gear. And leave that second set of aiders behind....
All great advice! (especially backcleaning)
I have watched people fumbling with sets of aiders all over the place, and have never really understood the point. I seems to me that it's just that much more gear to handle and would only slow you down in the long run.
That said..
I do bring a spare set of aiders, but the stay in the bag *just in case* my partner drops one again.
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ricardol
Feb 7, 2005, 7:27 AM
Post #12 of 14
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Registered: Nov 11, 2002
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well .. i'm guilty of being slow ..
And i climb with 2 sets of 2 aiders (4 total) ..
for me that choice was based on my experience factor, and the nature of the routes i've done (steep).
.. in the future i'd like to move to a 2 aider or 3 aider (the third being a floater) setup.
==========================
as far as the original poster .. topstepping on very steep terrain takes alot of energy for me .. so i only do it when its absolutely neccesary .. and even then i'd need something to hold on to like a crack ..
.. on less than steep terrain .. i always go for the top step .. otherwise you're wasting time.
-- ricardo
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skinner
Feb 7, 2005, 2:52 PM
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In reply to: I always top step on stuff anything up to about 80 degrees using this technique. Further, I only use ONE set of aiders. The technique IS awkward at first, but once you get it down it saves you lots of time and energy.
This is what I was referring to. I guess I should have clarified myself. Top Stepping on lower angles is not a big deal. It is just that I get the impression from some, that every placement should be made from the top of your aiders. Personally, when it gets that steep I could make two moves that are one step down in less time and be further ahead in the end.
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tradclimbinfool
Feb 7, 2005, 3:21 PM
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Registered: Jun 12, 2003
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In reply to: Didn't Ron Ovlonsky do a clean aid video just a while ago that outlines his technique for top steping that eliminates "the wooblies." Try searching for it. I think Ron is a member of the site too. |
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