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salbrecher
Feb 3, 2005, 8:37 AM
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I'd never jug a line without tying backup knots. So there is no way I would ever trust my life to just one jug, while jugging. While hauling the pig 1:1 I and many others depend on one jug or wallhauler or device of choice to support up to a few hundred pounds of weight. If this device fails while hauling on static line and the bag falls it will most certainly rip apart a belay and kill you (if you don't have a separate anchor for hauling which is sometimes the case) . Why is it common practice to trust your belay and life to one jug while hauling but most of us would never do it while jugging? Any east ways to back this up cluster fuck free? I havn't done to much hauling but when I have it always gets me thinking.
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oldfart
Feb 3, 2005, 8:43 AM
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In reply to: I'd never jug a line without tying backup knots. So there is no way I would ever trust my life to just one jug. While hauling the pig 1:1 I and many others depend on one jug or wallhauler or device of choice to support up to a few hundred pounds of weight. If this device fails while hauling on static line and the bag falls it will most certainly rip apart a belay and kill you (if you don't have a separate anchor for hauling which is sometimes the case) . Why is it common practice to trust your belay and life to one jug while hauling but most of us would never do it while jugging. I havn't done to much hauling but when I have it always gets me thinking.
That's great. Thanks.
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ricardol
Feb 7, 2005, 9:33 PM
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hmm ..
.. well .. since you're also attached to the haul line (either with a jug, or a grigri, etc) .. then you are backing up the haul.
If the cam on the pulley fails, then your weight will support the bag ..
.. but if your question is.. "What if the whole pulley just disintegrates" ..
well, people do back that up with a sling and a carabiner. (to the haul line). -- i dont since i think the chances of the whole pulley diintegrating a fairly low.
-- ricardo
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megableem
Feb 7, 2005, 11:37 PM
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lambone
Feb 8, 2005, 2:58 AM
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I'm with ricardo on this one salbrecher.
I use the gri-gri to pull against the haul line, and clipping an extra sling or draw through the line is also a good idea.
I once had the cam on my Pro Traxion not lock up when hauling. With three heavy pigs on the line it pulled me up into the device, but the result was not catastrophic, more scary then anything.
Get a hauler that's tested and approved for heavy loads and a bomber locker and trust it...just like when belaying, sometimes you have to just trust your equipment to do the job it's designed for.
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punk
Feb 8, 2005, 5:28 AM
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Registered: May 28, 2002
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You can still backup the haul line with an inverted ascender and a QD if you like, or instead of using a wall hauler type of device, you can use the old method of bomber regular pulley (NFPA, rated to 71KN) and a prussik knot. This set up is bomb proof although cumbersome and more time consuming to rig and brake down. Also, it is very inconvenient to modify once it is rigged in certain way.
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ricardol
Feb 8, 2005, 7:46 AM
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hmm .. why would anyone haul with a regular pulley + a prussik ..
i must be misunderstanding that previous post
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punk
Feb 8, 2005, 3:21 PM
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if he is looking for a fail proof system. the simpler the system is, it has the less likelihood of something going wrong…you know less moving parts....K.I.S.S.
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lambone
Feb 8, 2005, 6:45 PM
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In reply to: hmm .. why would anyone haul with a regular pulley + a prussik ..
well, there are lot of circumstances where one would do that. most don't include hauling a 200lb bag up a big wall though. the first that comes to mind is hauling your buddy out of a crevase.
could be a lightweight solution for a quick climb with a small bag, but I'd just bring my Mini-Traxion.
I think Punk had it right on the backup, just clip you extra jummar onto the line on the bag side facing downward. simple and redundant, personaly I never bother, I also haul off of one bolt...so go figure.
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golsen
Mar 11, 2005, 1:44 AM
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Interesting. This is slightly off topic but comments on the following set up are appreciated as I have not ever seen this written up in any how to books and it is slick as snot, particularly on hanging belays. My first big walls were before the day of wallhaulers and GriGris so you always set up a downward jumar and used a pulley. This actually works very conveniently as follows. Dont haul the pig until the knot is jammed, leave at least a foot or more. Anchor the pig, but dont tear apart the haul system. When your partner is ready to haul, unanchor the pig and when the haul line comes tight, disconnect the jumar. No taggin or manhandling the pig, it worked very slick for me....As far as safety, there are times when you have to trust the gear and make sure you have it rigged properly.
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