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comet
Feb 6, 2005, 7:22 PM
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my partner and i were up at boy scout rocks at mt. diablo yesterday, and came across three tarzan-yelling, sneaker-clad, harness-sharing, clothesline-wielding crazies. i've never before met in person any individuals so clearly headed for darwin award candidacy. the first one i met rapped down to the base on what can only be described as high quality clothesline, and told me that he "used to climb a lot" and was "just getting back into it." when i asked him what, exactly, it was he was climbing on, he told me not to worry; the "rope" was rated to 400 lbs. and "really, really strong." he then proceeded to shout up to one of his buddies and ask if they wanted him to tie off one end so that they could rap down just the one strand.
as it turns out, the other gear they'd brought was as follows: a couple of quicklinks from the hardware store, some static rope tat, and a single oval biner. the quicklinks were clipped to the anchor bolts at the top of the climb, a piece of tat was tied (with knots even my partner, master of all things knotted, could not identify) to each quicklink, and an eight-on-a-bight at the other end was clipped into one, non-locking, oval biner. that's right, click click click, in are your two pieces of tat and the clothesline. you're set. clearly i have placed far too much emphasis on notions such as "safety" and "gear management."
earlier we'd seen such other stunts as 'jumping and shaking the anchor tree while someone else in the group is anchored to it' and 'taking your brake hand off because you have wildly jumped all over the place and are about to slam face first into the rock, rapidly dropping several meters, frantically grabbing back onto the rope, and mentioning, dude, maybe i should like get a helmet or something.' er, DUDE, maybe a little common sense would be a good initial acquisition.
what amazed me most was that, meeting them at 5:00 on the last climb of the day, i was the first person to say anything to them about their setup. while i understand survival of the fittest and all that, i was amazed that no one but my partner and i said anything to them about the decisions they were making. it's not the first time i've seen stupidity--like the guy at lover's leap who asked his new-to-climbing girlfriend "you're good there, right?" at the belay and then unclipped her, 3 pitches up, as she shook like a leaf, to detangle the rope--but this was one disaster after another waiting to happen.
i'm astounded at the idiocy. at the same time, i had to wonder what i would have felt, watching all that happen, had i said nothing, and one of them gotten hurt. it's not that i think it's my responsibility to teach one and all the error of their ways, but if these guys are going to go out without anyone who knows what s/he is doing, someone should at least tell them that they're being idiots. i think they truly didn't know. then again, it's not like they were putting other groups at risk, only themselves.
anyway, i felt like their mom or something.
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stzzo
Feb 6, 2005, 8:05 PM
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Well, kudos to you for saying something. Try as we might, though, we can't save the stupid from their own stupidity.
I don't find it all that surprising that no one else said anything -- I agree with your point on personal responsibility: when it comes right down to it the buck stops with ourselves in regard to making sure we have the skill and equipment to safely engage in any activity. If they only people they are affecting are themselves... But that opens up a deeper conversation about who's affected. If they fall and hurt themselves, it *might* affect us. It may give climbers a bad rap, it may result in restrictions on climbing at Mt. Diablo, it may exacerbate high medical care costs... (similar arguments as used to support helmet laws).
Or, somewhere down the road, in their stupidity they may fall and take out someone we care about...
I've seen a few scary things from time to time, too. Like a father leading while instructing (by radio) his two kids on the ground how to belay him. Aside from the stupidity of it, it's insanely irresponsible to the kids. "How'd your dad die?" "He fell to his death because I dropped him while rock climbing when I was 13." Or "How'd your brother and your dad die?" "My dad fell to his death because I dropped him while rock climbing when I was 13. He landed on my brother."
Then there was the time the folks on the ground were yelling instructions on how to build an anchor up to the leader at the belay. Instruction on how to tie various knots was among the required communication... I couldn't help but wonder if they were stupid enough to follow that pitch on their blind, remote-control anchor.
Though it's probably been done many times before, seems like a good time to open the forum: What's the stupidest climbing situation you've ever seen?
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chossdog
Feb 6, 2005, 8:20 PM
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It's with a shudder of recollection that I'm embarrassed to say that a million years ago I started out in much the same fashion on that very "mountain". Well to a skinny kid of 12 it seemed like a big mountain to me. We used to sling hardware store nuts with utility cord clipping our "pro" with steel quicklinks to 1/2' goldline rope. We just laced up our Converse hightops tight as we could and went for the top taking no heed of the law of gravity. Darwin was reaching out to grab our skinny asses many times. We were just too young and foolish to notice. Now at 46 with several years of good quality training, way too much gear and a fair amount of rock, alpine and ice climbing behind me I smile just a little at what a dumbass I was at the time. I'm old enough now to get damn gripped but wise enough to know when its time to back off. So far I've been able to keep my sincere promise to my wife, "babe I'll always come back under my own power".
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mik_c_dos
Feb 6, 2005, 8:49 PM
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In reply to: I've seen a few scary things from time to time, too. Like a father leading while instructing (by radio) his two kids on the ground how to belay him.
Youve seen this to!!! I watched these two kids cry and almost piss there pants while there dad yelled at them from a ledge 100 ft above them.
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sandbag
Feb 6, 2005, 9:04 PM
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its ok. really it is. I just make sure that the morons arent endangering any one my friends or my party. Its not my job to save the world, but I'll protect the friends and family with vengful vigilance. The sooner they die, the sooner they wont be screwing up stuff for the others.
People die. its a fact. If the want to accelerate that process in self attentuating dangerous activities, its their life......
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tuna
Feb 6, 2005, 9:41 PM
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So what was the route they were climbing rated?
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jackhammer
Feb 6, 2005, 10:19 PM
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? I feel fear for mankind ?
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kreate
Feb 6, 2005, 10:49 PM
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i once saw a group at a place called eden park taking down their toprope system (one non-locker on a single piece of webing). when the guy at top was done taking down the system he simply tossed all of his gear off the side of the wall into a very rocky ground (~25ft). when i asked him if he had any idea what that kind of impact did to hardware. he replied "i think the metal is a bit harder than the rock" and in his car he went and drove away. i remember being a noob but good god i was NEVER that bad.
the world scares me lot
~later days
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comet
Feb 7, 2005, 1:29 AM
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In reply to: So what was the route they were climbing rated?
a 5.2. i'm not sure how they got the tr up to begin with. when i talked to them, they were coming down on top of a .10d "learning how to rappel." at least they didn't try to get up what they came down...or, if they did, i missed it.
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tattooed_climber
Feb 7, 2005, 1:59 AM
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i don't want to climb on blood splatered rock
i tell yuppies all the time that they're being dumbasses......
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ryan112ryan
Feb 7, 2005, 3:04 AM
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In reply to: i don't want to climb on blood splatered rock
agreed....but i mention when someone is making a dangerous mistake, i hope that if there is somthing that im doing really wrong that someone will point it out
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tattooed_climber
Feb 7, 2005, 4:05 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: i don't want to climb on blood splatered rock agreed....but i mention when someone is making a dangerous mistake, i hope that if there is somthing that im doing really wrong that someone will point it out
totally....i strongly believe in karma...so i'll point them in the right direction....beyond that, its all up to Darwin....
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all_that_is_rock
Feb 10, 2005, 7:06 AM
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ok scary climbing stories:
i was on the "watch cristal" face in durango. its about 3-4 pitches depending where you climb it. i was on the (hanging) belay on the top of the first pitch and could see a climber on a belay ledge about ten feet below me and one root over. he got to his anchor while i was already set up so i had the pleasure of watching him building his "belay station". he took what looked like 1/4" inch tubular webbing and slung it directly through the bolts and tied what looked like an overhand knot (not a water knot). he used one oval biner to sling the rope through and belayed off the anchor with a figure 8. i nearly shit my pants but didnt want to shout anything and confuse other climbers on the wall.
as our sport groes so does ignorance.........so is life though
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davidji
Feb 10, 2005, 7:58 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: So what was the route they were climbing rated? a 5.2. i'm not sure how they got the tr up to begin with. when i talked to them, they were coming down on top of a .10d "learning how to rappel." at least they didn't try to get up what they came down...or, if they did, i missed it. |
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gunksgoer
Feb 10, 2005, 12:32 PM
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i dont want people to die, but i find it kind of frustrating when i tell people they have everything all wrong, and they completely deny it. even if i thot my setup was totally right, and someone told me it was completely wrong and i could die, id take a moment to listen, my lifes worth it. Maybe their stubborness is why darwins trying to kill em off.
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dontfall
Feb 10, 2005, 1:44 PM
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In reply to: ? I feel fear for mankind ?
I hope I never meet those "humans
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j_ung
Feb 10, 2005, 1:50 PM
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If I ever actually see this guy, I'm running away. :P
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azrockclimber
Feb 10, 2005, 2:23 PM
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I always say something. Sometimes they say holy sh*t, thanks. Sometimes I get Yeah. i've been climbing for awhile and I've done this before. My response has been oh really you've set a top rope with your biners loaded over an edge!! good luck buddy. your going to get yourself killed. Or a look like yeah whatever dude mind your own business. It's scary out there at an area that is easy to access and people can get to.. I usually move away from parties like that immediately.
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socalclimber
Feb 10, 2005, 2:30 PM
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Ok, I'll bite! This happened to me about 10 years ago. My partner and I were going to do Double Dip at Josh. We rope up at the base and we agree a single rope tug was enough to signal On Belay if it was windy. So, I lead, set a bomber anchor. Of course on top the wind is blowing like 30+MPH and I can't hear a thing. I start pulling up the rope, with in the first 10 feet the rope got stuck in a flake. I put some slack in the system and proceed to pull rope. Not paying attention to the amount of rope now pilling up next to me, I feel the rope go tight again. Somehow I decided the rope was stuck again. I keep yarding on the rope. This goes on for a while. Suddenly I realize that maybe my partner was climbing. I quickly put him on a hip belay, when his pops over the top. He solo'd the entire route.
Lessons learned/mistakes made:
1) I should have extend my belay stance to the edge so I could see my partner.
2) We should have realised that 1 tug is not sufficient to signal on belay.
3) My partner should have clipped the nearest piece till he new what was going on, or never left the ground.
We spent the rest of the day at Turtle Rock working on "silent" climbing/signaling techniques so this never would happen again.
Doh!
The vast majority of exeprienced climbers I know will agree it's a miracle they survived their first 2 years.
Robert
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far_east_climber
Feb 10, 2005, 3:08 PM
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Some of these incidents are pretty disturbing, especially the original poster's one. The worst I've ever seen are people chaining their quickdraws for anchors on multi-pitch - seems to be a very common practice around here. However it does not compare to the imbeciles mentioned in these posts. Nevertheless, I think it is someone's duty to raise awareness to people who are practicing with dangerous techniques/equipment - it's for their own good. When I started out a few years ago, my first day outdoors had me receiving advice from another climber on how to best minimise extension in my anchor - I certainly appreciated that.
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dingus
Feb 10, 2005, 4:07 PM
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In reply to: If I ever actually see this guy, I'm running away. :P
If you had seen me climbing in middle Tennessee in the mid 70's this is pretty much the rig you would have seen me wearing. I got up some stout 5.9's in Conversev All Stars.
Did I ever tell you about my homemade harness, lol?
My first attempt at rappelling was on a polypro marine rope and a double wrap around a liberty biner, one liberty biner, non-locking.
So I can empathize with these kids and I bet more than one person one this board did some silimar antics.
I learned slowly. I got better gear. 32 years later I still climb.
A few climbers along the way were kind enough to suggest improvements in equipment and technique and I always appreciated those big brother efforts. A precious few gave the Father Knows All lectures and being a teenager I shut those arrogant bastards out and refused to listen.
My bro Angus has an excellent technique for kindly pointing out dangerous situations, like one day at the Grotto where a kid who might have once been me was hanging from a single bolt about 40 feet up with his feet on the wall pushing straight out. He had no other protection betwixt him and the ground.
Angus, "Hey man, I don't want to tell you what to do. But that bolt you're hanging on is 3 inches long and you're pulling straight out on it. What happens if it pulls?"
Now that sort of thing could turn into an antagonistic situation. But Angus said it nicely and then left the kid to ponder his circumstances. We purposely ignored him for a bit, so he could quietly think it through without feeling the teenager angst of having some old dude 'chew him out' and then stand there and stare at him like a highschool football coach/tyrant.
Instead of a lecture, a probing question or two that challenged them to do their thinking for themselves, and viola, the kid fixed the situation and I would bet good money that one tiny lesson will reverberate through his entire career.
I was the recipient of a few such pearls of wisdom over the years.
Just remember, most teenagers and young men in general do not respond well to a lecturing or 'you are a fucking idiot' tones. They don't respond well to know it all's or Kings of the Crags.
Lastly, they could have been my kids and I totally appreciate you being willing to stick your nose in (where you didn't have to) to guide them to a safer path. And someday, somewhere, maybe it's climbing, maybe its reckless driving, but somehow, someone may save YOUR kid with a tiny act of kindness and compassion and a simple... "Think about what you're doing..."
You did good to say something. Seeing a dead kid laying at your feet would SUCK!
Later!
DMT
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roboclimber
Feb 10, 2005, 4:37 PM
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Every time I have seen a "less" than adequate top-rope set-up and tried to offer advice/extra gear, I just get turned down or I get attitude. It has always seemed a little confrontational to tell someone that their set-up sucks and that it is likely to get them or their partner killed. So, I stopped offering, and I just let things go. It seems that the margin of error is so wide with top-rope set-up, that a catastrophic error has to be made for someone to get killed.
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gottarock
Feb 10, 2005, 5:05 PM
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I reckin' that we all learn the hard way. Unfortunately for some folks the lesson learned is much harsher than anticipated.
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adamd
Feb 10, 2005, 5:05 PM
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I've seen this one at least 5 or 6 times...nearly the exact situation in the exact same spot. I'm sure a bunch of you have seen the same thing.
Joshua Tree, Toe Jam 5.7, right next to the new honkin' intersection parking lot and Hidden Valley Campground. Easy slabby traversing crack/underclings up to a steeper and straight up flared crack to slab finish.
there's a perfect big bathtub type belay ledge directly above the end of the crux, and a horizontal crack that takes great gear. walk 25 feet right and there are rap bolts to get you off.
Seems many brilliant leaders hit the ledge and say...ooh bolts! I don't have to build an anchor. They walk right and belay their second up with no directional above the crux. Things go well until the 2nd gets just below the crux, takes out the last piece of pro above them then realizes that that move looks a little harder than the rest of the climbing below them. Sometimes they realize they aren't on top rope anymore and what the consequences of blowing it would be, sometimes they seem oblivious to the enormous pendulum.
Like I said...I've seen this play out at least 5 or 6 times. Never seen the second actually fall though, has anyone seen anyone take this ride?
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