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Re: [112] To retro or not?:
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fracture
May 31, 2007, 3:46 PM
Views: 4515
Registered: Jun 13, 2003
Posts: 1814
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112 wrote: fracture wrote: Yes, it is at odds. Most self-described "sport climbers" are really "sport clippers". They are gear-wankers, just like many of their traddie brethren. They truly are after the make-believe, watered-down, low-skill "clip up" emulation of traditional climbing which the likes of Healyje confusedly thinks represents the entire modern face of the sport. By your admission, most self-described "sport climbers" (are not we all self-described?) are what Healyje confusedly thinks represent the entire majority of that modern face of the sport.
I probably shouldn't have said "most". It's not really a clearly quantifiable category like that. Someone who thinks stick-clipping three bolts is cheating is a sport clipper, and so is someone who thinks the same about using stick-clips at all. But there's obviously a difference of degree. Someone who thinks toproping a sport route is less valid than a lead ascent is certainly a kind of sport clipper. And there's a hell of a lot of those; probably a "most" if we used that as the cutoff point.
However, in the context of Joseph's "analysis" of modern climbing, I should've probably restricted that to a subset of sport clippers. (Though they are certainly not small in number (at least not in Austin), and it is certainly possible that it is a majority, but I don't really know.)
But getting back to the topic: aside from the fact that they sometimes want stupidly low first bolts so that they don't have to stick-clip, I don't generally have significant bolt-related political disagreements with even the most extreme sport clippers. They tend to prefer the type of route development I prefer, but for different reasons. And I generally don't think the motives someone has for wanting the climb the way they want to climb are particularly relevant in the context of a discussion about how to manage public land. We have to find ways to share public climbing resources, and while making fun of each other is tons of fun, when the time comes to settle disputes, everyone in the relevant community deserves an equal vote (metaphorically or literally), without special-preferences based on previous bolting activities, their reasons for climbing, or anything else.
The fact that this position is controversial should be alarming to any new climbers who are reading this thread.
(This post was edited by fracture on May 31, 2007, 3:50 PM)
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Post edited by fracture
() on May 31, 2007, 3:47 PM
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Post edited by fracture
() on May 31, 2007, 3:50 PM
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