k.l.k wrote:
ryanb wrote:
Johnny_Fang wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
Johnny_Fang wrote:
our analyses of these accidents
The big difference in this case, I think, is that it was not an accident, it was an on purpose that went bad.
Most climbing accidents are on purposes that go bad. Woody wanted his mate to lower him--on purpose--and didn't stop to think that he hadn't tied his mate in. Or if he did think about it, he accidentally miscalculated. Not tying in to an anchor is a pretty huge mistake. Todd Skinner was hanging by his belay loop--on purpose--and didn't stop to think that he had just ordered a new harness because his belay loop was just about worn through. Or if he did think about it, he accidentally miscalculated. Not backing up his belay loop when he knew it was heavily frayed is a pretty huge mistake.
This guy in Spokane fell on his gear--on purpose--with a bolt/draw below it, but he didn't stop to think about how much rope he had out and how far he would fall. Or if he did think about it, he accidentally miscalculated. He's lucky he had a friend there to save his life. This was, indeed, an accident in just the same sense as Woody and Todd.
I really strongly agree with these sentiments. I don't take intentional falls but every time i lead something at my limit I accept that there is a good chance I will fall and i see no difference.
Most of us see a very large difference. In almost thirty years of climbing, I have known many competent, experienced climbers who unknowingly screwed up by not finishing their knot or clipping the wrong rope. Most of those incidents turned out ok. A few turned out tragically.
In almost thirty years of climbing, in the US, Canada, and Europe, I have never, ever known a competent, experienced climber who injured (or nearly injured) themselves by hucking volunteer lobs on ledgy, low-angle terrain.
That's the difference. Hearing about Woody's accident (or Angry's near miss), most of us on this site with both competence and experience could nod and say, yeah, I need to watch and make sure I don't mess up something like that.
But neither I nor, I am willing to bet, Curt or RGold or Angry or DMT or anyone else I can think of at the moment, is likely to look at this episode and say, yeah, that could've been me. Because it couldn't have been. No one I know or have ever known who is both competent and experienced would play crash test dummy in that scenario.
As best as I can tell from your post, you wouldn't have either. Your argument is that an involuntary fall is equivalent to a volunteer lob. But it isn't. Volunteer falls occur to n00bies because they are n00bs and have to survive a certain amount of time during which they are always in the death zone simply because they are n00bies. After they've acquired experience and competence, they may move into a new zone, one in which they are willing to take calculated risks on particular climbs in order to succeed.
But no one competent is going to deliberately court those risks in simple training situations-- who would just go out and stand in the shooting-gallery couloir to see if their helmet could turn a falling rock? Who is going to huck a volunteer lob on ledgy ground just to see what would happen if their gear pulled?
In my life, I;'ve known maybe two folks who were skilled climbers but who also would do those sorts of things. They both died young, and foolishly, and pointlessly, without having ever lived up to their talent.
