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ramylson
Apr 15, 2004, 8:05 PM
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In reply to: my husband was a gear rep and years ago we had about $2k worth of gear stolen from our truck at the Red. We made a claim on our homeowners, but had a $500 deductible. (Note: homeowner's insurance and automobile insurance deductibles are seperate.) This sucked but came back to bite me in the ass years later after I had another claim on my homeowners (hail damage) and they cancelled my policy after filling that claim. I recommend saving claims for LARGE losses ($2k isn't large compared to the cost of a new roof and siding, etc.).
Right.. there are two deductibles, but most companies will view it as one occurance, where only one of the deductibles will apply (typically the larger of the two). Honestly, it just depends on the company.
Also, you hit the nail on the head regarding the homeowners claims. Homeowners has lost money for the insurance industry for a long time. This year is the first where they actually recorded a profit, and part of the reason why the insurance market has started to soften a bit. Even so, due to the harder market, companies have become much more stict with their underwriting guidelines. Meaning, people that have a lot, or more, claims end up having problems finding insurance. Most the companies we write for will allow one weather related claim, and then maybe an additional one. After that, they're going to be non-renewing the account. An agent will have some pull for you with the company, as they can argue the case. But, it will really help by going to larger deductibles on your homeowners to eliminate a lot of the "little" claims (as a savings to you as your assuming more risk, lowering the premium for the property).
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hoppinbig
Apr 12, 2004, 1:20 PM
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I just got back from a trip to the red and just wanted to warn everyone about a rash of break-in's that occurred while I was there. There were 2 break-in's at Roadside last week and 3 cars got broken into at the Motherlode on Saturday. I talked to one guy who had just arrived Sat morning - he had his tent, sleeping bags and just about everything else stolen from his car.
The last I heard is that the cops caught a guy late Saturday night in an adjacent county using one of the stolen credit cards - I have no other update, maybe someone else here can add what they know.
Anyways don't leave anything in your cars, your gear is safer in your tent at Miguel's then in your car.
Sucks that there are people out there who do this kind of crap... this was my first trip to the Red and wow was it amazing. I guess as long as we are climbing in areas with a lot of poverty there will always be climber's cars getting broken into.
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traddaddy
Apr 12, 2004, 1:45 PM
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Yeah, I was at the Red this weekend too. Watched a guy putting plastic over the broken driver's side window with rolls of duct tape.
DON'T LEAVE ANYTHING OF VALUE IN YOUR CAR :!:
I've known people's cars getting broken in to for just old smelling tennis shoes and cassette tapes.
It just ain't right.
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pawilkes
Apr 12, 2004, 1:58 PM
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i just bought a car on friday and am moving down to Louisville in August for about 5 months and plan on doing lots of climbing at the RRG. i've heard that beyond leaving nothing in the car that leaving it unlocked isn't a bad idea b/c that way they hopefully will not break a window. im kind of worried about something happening. im thinking about building in a hidden lockbox in my car, a safe if you will.
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bandycoot
Apr 12, 2004, 2:10 PM
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If it happens every weekend, just get a climbing posse ready and wait for the bastard(s) and club them with Valley Giants when they show up. It's probably worth losing one day of climbing over for much peace of mind...
Go get em! :twisted:
Josh
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debsanders
Apr 12, 2004, 2:17 PM
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dRRG sits in one of the poorest regions in our nation and some of the poorest counties in Kentucky. As such the locals steal and sale audio equipment and gear as a means of survival.
Thoughts on prevention:
- Don't have climbing stickers on your car, which means to Mr. Hillbilly come take my gear
- Remove your audio equipment, cds, and all valuables
- Leave windows rolled down or vehicle unlocked
- Leave huge guard dog in car
- Raise stink with local authorities
The area is awesome but the ever present threat of break-ins is a nuisance.
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ninjatoes
Apr 12, 2004, 2:17 PM
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that was us putting cardboard on the window. our car was broken into on wednesday at the Lode.
I got off light with just my cds and radar detector gone, but my friends lost a lot more.
anyways, dont leave valuables in your car!
despite that, it was still an awesome time.
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greenspace
Apr 13, 2004, 12:01 AM
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saw those state troopers....looked just like the ones in the movie, 'cept larger...... :lol:
sorry about the break-in's tho. sux big time
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redpiton
Apr 13, 2004, 12:18 AM
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I don't know if I could leave my car unlocked, it just doesn't seem right.
Well, I guess neither does stealing tapes. But seriously, if they want to steal my seat lint they are going to have to break a window for it. :roll:
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pawilkes
Apr 13, 2004, 5:04 AM
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"don't know if I could leave my car unlocked, it just doesn't seem right.
Well, I guess neither does stealing tapes. But seriously, if they want to steal my seat lint they are going to have to break a window for it. "
and then you'll have to pay for a new window...
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reedcrr
Apr 13, 2004, 5:33 AM
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This crap has been happening for years and is probably the same group of people doing these break-ins. The local cops in RRG area could catch these people but they refuse to do so. 7 years ago and again 3 years ago I was there and got my rental car broke in to, I was furious both times and went to the cops and they did nothing. I was there for another week the last time I was in Kentucky and happened to stop in to a local pawn shop and saw some of my gear. I called the cops and their advice to me was to go home and leave it alone, they refused to come out and even look in to the matter. :shock:
My opinion is the "Red" is not worth my gear coming up missing or me having to pay the deductible on another rental car. Bottm line I won't go there again. Them bastards can just rip each other off as far as I am concerned. I wouldn't be supprised if or when theses thiefs do get caught they turn out to be climbers from Kentucky.
To hell with that area :twisted: my advice is go to someplace where the locals are morally minded. Stay out of the Red! Boycott the area and they won't have anything worth value to steal!
My 2 cents!
By the way sorry Miguel...your pizza rocks and you are a very good guy! If you are going to stay at the red stay at Miguel's it's the only safe place to crash.
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sportster
Apr 14, 2004, 3:00 AM
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i guess im just going to have to get a big a$$ pit bull and leave him in my car with my windows half down. than will teach them.
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: Eric
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gman
Apr 14, 2004, 3:06 AM
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In reply to: If it happens every weekend, just get a climbing posse ready and wait for the bastard(s) and club them with Valley Giants when they show up. It's probably worth losing one day of climbing over for much peace of mind... Go get em! :twisted: Josh
I second this. In SoCal, we had a bunch of bikes getting stolen and at the "Torque" premier (biker movie) set up the sting. Needless to say the guy will never steal another motorcycle.....
by the way, I was involved in the sting.....
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redpiton
Apr 14, 2004, 3:06 AM
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I think we all just need to watch out for each others schwag. If something doesn't look right, make it apparent that you notice them. I've got to many projects to boycott the RRG!
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kalcario
Apr 14, 2004, 3:15 AM
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Not only don't leave anything in your car, but pay cash for everything unless absolutely necessary. My checking account got cleaned out while I was there last time, maybe a coincidence but I suspect some retail clerk scam in one of those little towns...oh yeah and it just goes without saying, don't leave anything in your car, this is even more of a problem in Europe than Kentucky
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badass
Apr 15, 2004, 1:09 AM
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Hey was everybody at the Red this weekend. I think it is dumb to leave your doors unlocked anyone can just open the door and take a leak or worse in your car. I think the best prevention is try and cover all of your gear under an old blanket. The theives will be discouraged if they have to break into your car not knowing whether or not it will be worth the risk. It is a sad day in age when people would steal climbing gear. :(
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dwise
Apr 15, 2004, 1:30 AM
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I think the solution is a bunch o hard-pipe-hittin' rockjocks laying in the bushes ready to liberally apply some '#99 sized camalot shampoo' to Mr. soon to be living his short a$$ life in excruciating pain...(life is so much better with Pulp Fiction quotes)
Actually, is the masses unite and become a constant pain to the local John Q Laws, maybe they'll finally get off their lazy butts and pursue the criminals. I know this was an issue at Twall for a while and the local sheriff's office finally did something about it.
If the local five o doesn't budge, maybe we get a petition to the state attorney general and anyone else who will listen.
The Red is too great a place and Miguel too great a guy to boycott.
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reedcrr
Apr 15, 2004, 2:12 AM
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badass:
Sorry but putting a blanket over your gear? Come on these guys have this place down and they know how to get in and out without causing much of a disturbance or much noise...even though in most places it is so remote it just doesn't matter anyway!
The last time I climbed there I went to the pocket wall and from the wall you are about 45-60 min away from your car and deep in to their backyard. We heard shotgun blasts all day long and just laughed it off with a little hillbilly humor. That was until I returned to my rental car and found buckshot had riddled my window on the drivers side and pretty much everything that wasn't seriously bolted down was gone! I didn't loose much stuff but the rental car company snagged me for $3500.00 damage, saying the insurance did not cover gunshot damage!
Sorry but there is now way I am going back to the Red until I see a posted sheriff's report claiming they arrested the whole group invloved. If you want to climb in the Red at least make sure that you don't leave a party stranded in a place like the pocket wall, cars have been stolen and climbers abandoned...don't let that happen! If you are the second to last one leaving wait and walk out as a group with the last group.
My 2 cents!
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hippie_dreams
Apr 15, 2004, 2:16 AM
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Some tips for the red:
-Don't leave your car unlocked
-Don't leave anything, ANYTHING visible in your car
-Do leave extra gear in your tent at Miguel's
-Watch everybody's back - never met a climber there who wasn't cool
-The local cops don't seem to like climbers too much, so don't bother with them
-Finally, by all means, if you see someone breaking into a car, beat the sh%t out of them!
Also, if you see something suspisious, go over and talk to them, find out for sure. If they give you crap, ask to see the keys of the car and if they dont' show say you'll hang out there until they get in, start it up and leave.
Don't boycott the Red man, that's sad. How could you let such a great climbing area go to waste like that?
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sandy
Apr 15, 2004, 2:39 AM
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In reply to: My opinion is the "Red" is not worth my gear coming up missing or me having to pay the deductible on another rental car. Bottm line I won't go there again. Them bastards can just rip each other off as far as I am concerned. I wouldn't be supprised if or when theses thiefs do get caught they turn out to be climbers from Kentucky.
Dude, your experiences suck for sure, but that comment is completely uncalled for. Local climbers have also been ripped off, and this is a hot topic on our local climbing forum. You visit the Red occasionally, but we have to deal with this threat all the damn time. To insinuate that it might be climbers is just wrong. We are super frustrated about this problem.
There HAVE been arrests over the years, but the thefts come in waves. Personally I think climbers should take matters into their own hands at the problem areas and ambush these phuckers, but they may have bigger guns than us...
The best advice is to leave your vehicles empty and your doors unlocked. Hopefully these lowlifes won't resort to vandalism when their efforts go 'unrewarded.'
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reedcrr
Apr 15, 2004, 4:18 AM
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Sandy:
Point taken...for all the Kentucky climbers out there who are not thiefs sorry for the generalization...for those of you who are, just wait your time is coming and these boys are going to catch up with you...and no I don't mean the cops.
So Sandy, if arrests have been made have you seen a drop in the crime? And by waves what do you mean? How often?
At your next meeting you could inform people that if this is not ratified RRG will get blacklisted by climbers, this means even less money in to the local economy. I mean if you think about it why should a climber spend the money and vacation time that they worked so hard to get just to watch it go up in smoke at a crag. This is not a small isolated problem we are talking about here, break-in's at RRG gorge have been a common trait since the first bolt went in. Somewhere there is a lot of stolen gear being purchased! Something has to be done! A previous post suggested contacting the district attorney for the state...has this been attempted?
My 2 cents!
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sandbag
Apr 15, 2004, 5:26 AM
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How about this:
Loose a few rather pissed off Eastern Diamond back Rattlers(indigenous to the area) and see what happens. And maybe a couple of Water Mocassins, teach them there hill people a little backwoods justice ....mmmhmmmm
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shank
Apr 15, 2004, 1:25 PM
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In reply to: but they may have bigger guns than us...
I wouldn't bet on it :lol:
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crankingclimber
Apr 15, 2004, 2:10 PM
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I was at the Red for the weekend as well and felt really sorry for all the people who had their stuff stolen. What a way to put a damper on a trip.
That being said, a good way to protect your car, both at the Red or anywhere it has a chance of getting broken into, is to buy one of those little red flashing LED lights that are designed to look like the flashing light of an armed car alarm. A would be burglar can't tell the difference, and quite often the threat of an alarm blaring might be enough to make them leave your car alone. Other than that, don't leave ANYTHING in your car, park in areas where there's likely to be people passing by often (this isn't always possible, and as the Roadside shows, doesn't always help), leave stuff at Miguels, car pool out to the crags in the biggest piece of crap car that the climbers hitting that particular crag have, and finally, beat the ever living shit out of anyone you do manage to catch (although watch out for those shotguns, that would not be pretty).
Will
PS Also building a safe can help. One way to do this is to buy a beefy metal toolbox from a hardware store, cut a slot in it, as well as two corresponding holes in some metal part of your car. Insert a U bolt into the holes, poke the bolt through the slot in the box and put a lock on it. Put gear inside, and then lock the toolbox from the outside. This way if you ever want to remove the box all you have to do is open it and unlock the lock on the U bolt and slide the whole thing out.
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rltodd00
Apr 15, 2004, 2:15 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: but they may have bigger guns than us... I wouldn't bet on it :lol:
You got that right.
Rob
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flashsixteen
Apr 15, 2004, 2:56 PM
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I've always wanted to make my way over to Red, but if there is prospects of sitting in the woods to have a bru ha ha with a bunch of irreverant theives, I might be making it over sooner than I think. If it were closer, I really would offer to wait in the woods all day to snag them. Surely there is enough traffic there regularly that some group could offer a Saturday just to sit around and get them. I really am not an angry man, but stuff like this makes my anger flare. My first thing would be the authorities, but since they don't care, a climbers got to do what a climber has got to do...to not only protect himself, but his fellow family.
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pawilkes
Apr 15, 2004, 4:04 PM
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i am moving down to Louisville in August for about 5 months and plan on being at the red at least every other weekend once it cools down a little bit. i just bought a new-to-me used car and am a bit worried after following this thread. i am thinking of getting an alarm put in so that it will honk like mad if anyone tries getting in to it. i figure a piece of glass will probably cost as much as some of the alarms i've found and plus it will probably help on insurance rates anyhow.
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mistymountainhop
Apr 15, 2004, 4:43 PM
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Someone told me of a series of break inns by a couple of thieves who would hit the Red, the New and T-Wall and turn around and sell the items on ebay. Thats real sh-ty thinking whenever i buy something off ebay it could have been stolen from a climber just like myself. I was told that the rangers at the New River Gorge set up a sting and caught them...........
anyone else hear of this?
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hoppinbig
Apr 15, 2004, 4:54 PM
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The best option would be for some entrepreneur to start a shuttle service from Miguels. Pay a couple bucks per head to drive climbers out to a crag and have a pre-arranged pick up time. Have a van driving around making regularly scheduled stops.
Sure it would take some set up but if this continues to be a problem its the only option.
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traddaddy
Apr 15, 2004, 5:20 PM
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ok, since we all know they're breaking in, as they always have. Let's narrow it down.
It seems like most of the break-ins occur in the southern region south of Miguel's.
Tell us what wall you were at when it happened. :idea:
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monstertruckmike
Apr 15, 2004, 5:21 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: but they may have bigger guns than us... I wouldn't bet on it :lol: You got that right. Rob
you guys bring guns with you to the red? At least "bigger" ones than a shotgun, most likely "sawed off" and loaded with dear slugs?
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kyhangdog
Apr 15, 2004, 5:25 PM
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I've been climbing at the Red for about twelve years and never had a break in or problem. Why? My cars look like shit and I don't leave anything in them at all. My car isn't worth stealing and if there's nothing in it to steal, the thieves don't bother.
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shank
Apr 15, 2004, 5:28 PM
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In reply to: you guys bring guns with you to the red? At least "bigger" ones than a shotgun, most likely "sawed off" and loaded with dear slugs?
Never been to the Red. Also it is not physical size that matters, it is effective range, which a sawed off shotgun doesn't have much of, and capabilities of the handler, which most thieves don't have much of either.
On a side note, if you take your own car with fullcoverage and some one stole all you're old rusty gear wouldn't the insurance company give you a load of money to buy shiney new gear?
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ramylson
Apr 15, 2004, 7:25 PM
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[quote="shank"]In reply to: On a side note, if you take your own car with fullcoverage and some one stole all you're old rusty gear wouldn't the insurance company give you a load of money to buy shiney new gear?
I can comment on this one (my line of "work" after-all)..
If you have full-coverage on the car, the damages to the car resulting from the theft/vandalism would be covered under your comprehensive (now termed 'other then collision'). You would just have to pay your deductibe (whatever that might be). The actual items that were stolen would be covered under your homeowners (or renters policy) as they're not "part" of the car. Honestly, it's going to kind of depend on the insurance company who your insurance is with, as there might be some differenes in the policy form itself. The reason I say that is that you might find very limited coverage of those items within the car under personal effects. But, more often then not, they would be completely covered under the homeowners policy. Oh.. and one only one deductibe will apply between your auto and homeowners policy.
As far as the RRG goes though, been down there several times without any "issues". But, like previously mentioned, at lot of it has to deal with what's seen from the exterior of the car. A thief typically won't break into a car unless they know that there's something they can get at in a short order of time. Clean the car completely out so there's nothing that they might "think" they need..
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sandy
Apr 15, 2004, 7:53 PM
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my husband was a gear rep and years ago we had about $2k worth of gear stolen from our truck at the Red. We made a claim on our homeowners, but had a $500 deductible. (Note: homeowner's insurance and automobile insurance deductibles are seperate.) This sucked but came back to bite me in the ass years later after I had another claim on my homeowners (hail damage) and they cancelled my policy after filling that claim. I recommend saving claims for LARGE losses ($2k isn't large compared to the cost of a new roof and siding, etc.).
Reedcrr, we were hit in a significant wave of very organized thefts at the Red about 5 or 6 years ago. They caught those people, but it took a while. I recall that they were just throwing away all the camping and climbing gear, as they were after cash, credit cards, drugs and guns. They were 'locals' and not climbers. Things were quiet for the most part, for a while, but the break-ins started back up last year. It's not just climbers getting hit, but also backpackers. I don't know all the details, but people have been caught - usually when they use stolen credit cards. I suspect there are a lot of opportunists out there, since even when someone is caught, there always seems to be more break-ins. The people caught using stolen credit cards have never been climbers, but climbers are popular targets. Especially at Roadside and now the Southern Region. Last year was kind of bad. This year is starting off bad, too.
I heard that they caught the guys who did the deeds at the Motherlode last weekend, too - also when they were trying to use stolen credit cards. Again, these were not climbers. I really resent the implication that climbers would have anything to do with this, but you are welcome to boycott the Red. We aren't going to cry about it.
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ramylson
Apr 15, 2004, 8:05 PM
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In reply to: my husband was a gear rep and years ago we had about $2k worth of gear stolen from our truck at the Red. We made a claim on our homeowners, but had a $500 deductible. (Note: homeowner's insurance and automobile insurance deductibles are seperate.) This sucked but came back to bite me in the ass years later after I had another claim on my homeowners (hail damage) and they cancelled my policy after filling that claim. I recommend saving claims for LARGE losses ($2k isn't large compared to the cost of a new roof and siding, etc.).
Right.. there are two deductibles, but most companies will view it as one occurance, where only one of the deductibles will apply (typically the larger of the two). Honestly, it just depends on the company.
Also, you hit the nail on the head regarding the homeowners claims. Homeowners has lost money for the insurance industry for a long time. This year is the first where they actually recorded a profit, and part of the reason why the insurance market has started to soften a bit. Even so, due to the harder market, companies have become much more stict with their underwriting guidelines. Meaning, people that have a lot, or more, claims end up having problems finding insurance. Most the companies we write for will allow one weather related claim, and then maybe an additional one. After that, they're going to be non-renewing the account. An agent will have some pull for you with the company, as they can argue the case. But, it will really help by going to larger deductibles on your homeowners to eliminate a lot of the "little" claims (as a savings to you as your assuming more risk, lowering the premium for the property).
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wildtrail
Apr 20, 2004, 3:26 PM
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This is nothing new. I was working with two guys as their journalist that were touring the country for a year climbing. They got to RRG and their truck was broken into and they lost a ton of gear. Consequently, the loss was too great and endend their year long journey in month four.
RRG isn't worth going to. It's not worth the risk.
This is around the 20th (literally, somewhere between 20-25 for sure) story about this that I've heard since July of last year. RRG can rot in hell. What's worse, local police (from what I've heard from visitors and natives) don't seem to care and aren't doing anything about it.
That's Kentucky for you, though. (hear the banjos play) :roll:
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ramylson
Apr 20, 2004, 3:33 PM
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I think it all comes down to what's exposed inside the vehicle. I've been down there several times, and I have a lot of friends that are down there almost weekly. Now, I'll probably jinx myself with this, but none of us have ever had an issue. Of course, you take the steps of going through everything in the vehicle, first removing the items you really don't need, and then hiding (or locking up) the items that would remain in the car. In doing so, I believe the chances of running into problems decrease dramatically.
As far as local police, I know they stopped this from happening once several years ago. Basically eliminating the entire gang that was responsible for the issues. So, it's happening again. I'm sure they'll get to the bottom of it, since the climbing community down there definitely brings good money into the region.
It just comes down to "protecting" yourself..
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joshuaroe
Apr 24, 2004, 3:33 AM
Post #39 of 42
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Registered: Apr 5, 2004
Posts: 28
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Ok, everyone, i live 45 mins north of RRG, i know there are tons of break-ins and that really sucks hard core. But why boycott one of the best climbing areas east of the rockies? how about this, plan a weekend sometime within the next month, or after 29 june, meet me somewhere outside the RRG, i'll drive down, we'll lay wait for these phu^#ers and put a really bad aura on breaking and entering. I'm serious about this, i'm a KY climber and i would never imagine breaking into someone's...anything to take their stuff, though that kinda pisses me off that someone would suggest that it would be KY climbers. ok, maybe some climbers are
@s$holes but that's a major over generalization. for proof; let me know when you're going to be around and like i said, i'll drive, we'll beat the f@!k outta some would-be-thiefs, then i'll go by a beer, glass of wine, gatorade, water, whatever you all want to drink...pm me, catch up with me on msn, aim, or email me at joshuaroe21@yahoo.com
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jaylaka
Apr 25, 2004, 5:12 AM
Post #40 of 42
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Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 382
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definitely good ideas to here about avoiding break ins...
we stayed in the red for almost three weeks last summer, camped at miguels, and had no problems, climbing stickers be damned.
i've heard a lot about roadside, which is interesting because it is a popular (read: highly trafficked) area.
a shuttle service is a pretty damn good idea...maybe miguel would be interested in sponsoring. :wink:
and SANDY - we've gotta climb together with the kids before i leave all summer!! cole and your daughter can play in the dirt and sling trees, whatever. 8^)
jen
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ramylson
Apr 26, 2004, 1:13 PM
Post #41 of 42
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Registered: Apr 17, 2000
Posts: 317
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Now.. this might not be absolute, or the end of the issues down there. But, I was just talking to some good friends on mine that are down at the RRG almost every weekend. Apparantly, the vandals that were part of the entire break-in spree have been caught. They were the theives responsible for a lot of the problems up at Roadside and the Motherload. Now, this doesn't mean that it still can't happen, but it does lessen the chance..
FYI I guess..
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photon
Apr 26, 2004, 3:45 PM
Post #42 of 42
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Registered: Jan 31, 2002
Posts: 543
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To all the folks who want to boycott the red, I say thank you, you won't be missed because the place is pretty much overrun anyway. Tell your friends too while your at it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the area is smack dab in the middle of a very poverty stricken area, filled with a lot of folks who consider climbers outsiders/tresspassers on "their land". For many, many years thievery has been a problem and it will likely come and go as new thieves come and go. This issue has been broadcast in the climbing mags and more importantly by word of mouth at the RRG (miguel's at the crags). I found out about it before I went and have heard people talking about it every time I've been there. I've never been ripped off, but I also never really gave the thieves a chance to do so. The solution is quite simple, leave your valuables in a safe place, not in your unattended car in the middle of nowhere with stickers broadcasting that you have expensive stuff to steal inside your vehicle. IF you can't do this go to Miguel's and meet some folks and carpool to the crags. This is really easy to do and it works.
Anyone saying that climbers had something to do with this needs to lay of the crack pipe, you don't know sh&t!
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