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delcross
Mar 24, 2006, 6:33 PM
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cracklover
Mar 24, 2006, 6:46 PM
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In reply to: You didn't bend the lobe at all. You overloaded, torqued and bent the cam axles. Had this not been a BD with twin axles, it's likely that the damage would have been much worse, and POSSIBLY even resulted in a complete failure. I have diagrammed your image, to show where the bends are. http://www.great-river.com/pix/bdcam.jpg
It sure looks to me like you bent the axle - both cams on the right side are turned a few degrees clockwise. Don't know what the axles are made of - if they're steel, maybe you could hammer 'em back into place (but I doubt you could do so without taking the lobes off the axle), but if they're aluminum - forget it - aluminum is brittle and fatigues easily - bend it back and all you've got is a broken straight axle.
Short answer - find out what the axles are made out of and make a determination from there. If you're not prepared to make that judgement call, then consider it trash. But don't rag on BD - it did its job - they're not designed to be indestructible.
GO
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weschrist
Mar 24, 2006, 7:01 PM
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In reply to: If you examine the space just to the immediate right of the center post, you'll see a large discrepency where the upper portion is spread apart, while the lower portion is drawn in. The distorted symetry then flows down in a direct path to the outer portion of the far right lobe.
yeah, I pick up what you are puttin down... but the lines are on the cam lobes not the axels. It is entirely possible to tweak the lobes and not bend the axels. When I hold a straight edge up to the screen it looks like the axels are still straight.
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healyje
Mar 24, 2006, 9:17 PM
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How about providing details of the placement, the overall protection system/belay at that point, and the fall itself.
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mtnbkrxtrordnair
Mar 24, 2006, 10:13 PM
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Why all the debate? your cam is now a Christmas ornament.
Can you spell r-e-t-i-r-e.
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healyje
Mar 24, 2006, 10:35 PM
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Delcross,
If you dropped it 400 feet it's toast - don't even think about it regardless of how it looks.
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roy_hinkley_jr
Mar 24, 2006, 10:52 PM
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In reply to: If you dropped it 400 feet it's toast - don't even think about it regardless of how it looks.
Why?
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delcross
Mar 24, 2006, 11:08 PM
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gunkiemike
Mar 24, 2006, 11:17 PM
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Talk about trying to bend anything back is just plain silly. No wait, it's far worse than that.
I have a #2 Technical Friend that was lying on the ground for 1-3 years. The axle ends are quite rusty, and the cam lobes are absolutely seized on the axle and 100% immoveable. Otherwise it looks fine. Should I send it back to WC? What should I tell them, that they should replace it?
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weschrist
Mar 24, 2006, 11:41 PM
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In reply to: My guess is that it will still hold loads. But I have enough doubt about it that I chose to retire it.
my guess is that I could swallow one end of 7mm cord and shit it out within a week, then pull it back through... but it just ain't worth it.
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climbingaggie03
Mar 25, 2006, 12:16 AM
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weschrist wrote In reply to: my guess is that I could swallow one end of 7mm cord and s--- it out within a week, then pull it back through... but it just ain't worth it
I'd like to see that
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machino
Mar 25, 2006, 1:22 AM
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I just wanted to know is if you guys thought it was safe or not. Im not trying to scam BD for another cam or sell it on ebay to somebody else. Whoever thought of that should hang the head in shame, I'm dissapointed in you.
The situation was I was at a belay station a pitch up with a #2 camalot and green alien on one side, a gray alien in a pocket to my right and a small shit tree for my middle. I had a quickdraw on the grey alien with the leaders cord running through it since he was climbing to my right. He placed the #.4 Camalot about 6 feet from that, climbed about ten feet above it(I couldnt see him) an he fell, aproximately a 20 foot whipper. The placement was a vertical crack in a dihedral and the cam was placed perpendicular to the ground. There was no other alternative, I know cause I lead it after that fall. As for the cam it is retired.
Thanks for everyones input.
Dean
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tgreene
Mar 25, 2006, 1:35 AM
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I don't believe the cam would safely hold another fall, and would now be naturally prone to walking. I may be wrong, but wouldn't want to risk it myself...
That said, if the option were to run it out, I'd sling a steaming turd if I thought it contained enough roughage to remain solid just long enough to get the next piece in! :wink:
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the_mitt
Mar 25, 2006, 1:38 AM
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(This post was edited by the_mitt on Nov 19, 2006, 6:37 PM)
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machino
Mar 25, 2006, 1:50 AM
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The aliens will save my life, just as they have saved countless others. Have you ever fallen on an alien? Probably not. Have you ever fallen on gear at all?
I'm glad this happened to a BD cam. I was talking with my buddy and thought of the idea that if it was one of my alien cam lobes that bent I probably be finding somebody to relieve me of them. There cams, not miracle workers. Use them right and everyone will be fine.
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the_mitt
Mar 25, 2006, 1:56 AM
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(This post was edited by the_mitt on Nov 19, 2006, 6:37 PM)
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billcoe_
Mar 25, 2006, 3:48 AM
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In reply to: That said, if the option were to run it out, I'd sling a steaming turd if I thought it contained enough roughage to remain solid just long enough to get the next piece in! :wink:
Presumably one with no nuts?
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curt
Mar 25, 2006, 3:49 AM
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In reply to: weschrist wrote In reply to: my guess is that I could swallow one end of 7mm cord and shit it out within a week, then pull it back through... but it just ain't worth it I'd like to see that
Perhaps you can arrange a date with Wes to climb Brokeback Mountain together?
Curt
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dirtineye
Mar 25, 2006, 3:59 AM
Post #45 of 126
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Machino, woudl you expalin again how the cam was placed relative to the ground? was the stem parallel to the ground, or perpendicular? What was the lobe orientation?
I have a friend who bent a cam lobe, but he placed it very poorly, and he weighs 230, and fell at least 20 feet on it. He not only mashed a lobe, he bent the axel. Crazy fool had stuck just two lobes into the wall.
He never did figure out those newfangled cams, poor guy still thinks Titons are the big thing.
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weschrist
Mar 25, 2006, 6:08 AM
Post #46 of 126
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In reply to: Perhaps you can arrange a date with Wes to climb Brokeback Mountain together? Curt
I'm more into soloing that shit... no protection and no partners.
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apollodorus
Mar 27, 2006, 5:41 AM
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I've seen that type of failure on Camalots before. The cam twists on the axle, creating an oval hole instead of a round one. The spring tension cranks the thing offset. You can push the cam back into place, but it won't stay there.
The strength of the cam is reduced, because when you load it, it wants to further crank that cam sideways.
I've fixed #2 and larger Camalots by disassembling them, reaming the holes back to round and installing slightly larger axles. Works for me.
I would suggest spraying optic orange paint on the cam to mark it as a dicey piece. If the pitch is run-out, don't use it.
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billcoe_
Mar 27, 2006, 3:23 PM
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Well spoken Apollodorus.
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maldaly
Mar 27, 2006, 5:32 PM
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Since the cam lobes are still visually parallel it appears that the axle bent, not the cam lobe. Also, by your description of the placement--a bottoming crack that didn't allow the cam to rotate to align with the fall--that would be the expected failure mode. When we test cams in bottoming placements like that, we frequently see bent axles or bent cam lobes (or both) at loads that may be significantly lower that the cam's rated strength. That's why we, and all other manufacturers, specifically warn against this kind of placement.
If that were my cam, I'd want to have it back so I could test the axle for hardness, just to be sure there isn't a manufacturing issue.
Mal
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weschrist
Mar 27, 2006, 6:09 PM
Post #50 of 126
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In reply to: Since the cam lobes are still visually parallel it appears that the axle bent, not the cam lobe.
I don't know mal, the axle looks pretty straight to me... although it is a little hard to tell from the picture, hold a straight edge up and see what you think. It looks to me like both cam lobes have been bent ala apollodorus style (btw, was it worth fixing... sounds like way more than $50 worth of work for a less than optimal piece of gear).
All this could easily be cleared up by the OP if he would examine the axle and determine if it was straight or not, or at least take some better photos where you can see the whole axle... until then it is all theory.
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