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drunkenmonkey
Mar 4, 2003, 6:49 PM
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There's a lot of interesting points made both about Pete's information and about Pete himself in this thread my thoughts go something like this.....
As a newbie to aiding 2yrs ago i started studying this and the supertopo forum for information i could look at and try for myself before i got to do any real aiding. Having swallowed whole all of the easy to get at literature, the 'How to's...' and all that stuff i soon realised that anything in the literature is rarely synchronous with common practices. Reading Pete's numerous thread's and his technical stuff were a god send. i would read it try it and then try it again, if i felt it fitted and really made things easier it became part of the 'system', if it felt tricky or complex then it hit the bin.
It's this fundamental idea i think people are missing to some degree. Climbing is an evolving sport, practices are constantly changing and for those coming into the sport with their 'eyes open' this is not a problem. it really only becomes an issue when people blindly accept ideas without questioning them. Pete has a wealth of technical knowledge that is supreme and he should only be commended for the way he communicates this to those who ask the dumb questions, like myself. Pete as a person is just that, he's human and has his flaws like the rest of (you all included) and if we can't have a bit of give and take then for pity sake pack your preverbial bag and get outta this forum.
Anyway, having not added anything new to this discussion i shall leave you all to it. However, after having met the MAN HIMSELF at the top of a big wall, mostly due to his technical ideas i wanted my say
take it easy all :wink:
Drunken Monkey
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copperhead
Apr 13, 2003, 11:16 PM
Post #27 of 44
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In reply to: PTPP is a character that Pete Zabrok invented for a purpose of amusing his audience while he explains rather dry technical concepts and systems.
In reply to: So it's all an act. Good. Glad to hear it.
Doesn’t seem like an act to me, based on his comments here:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29679
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russman
Apr 14, 2003, 12:29 AM
Post #28 of 44
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I will step in here to say that about 2 years ago...I shorten his moniker to PTPP...I am way to lazy to type that user ID of his...so I guess I helped give him his identiy too 8)
just watching thses threads today and thinking I want a part too.
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kixrox
Apr 14, 2003, 12:56 AM
Post #29 of 44
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The finer points regarding the pros and cons of PTPP, and all that is entailed in the grand scope of his digital persona, can apparently be debated ad nauseam.
Some of you take yourselves so seriously on the matter of some one who clearly enjoys his passion and enjoys sharing on the subject.
Perhaps all that remains may be as simple as yay or nay.
Yay to PTPP.
Naysayers have the free choice to avoid his posts. Or they can devise diabolical challenges to expose the demon who lurks amongst us.
"SHEESH"!
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tim
Apr 14, 2003, 1:34 AM
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Stick around for a little while longer, maybe be on the receiving end of some of his lesser moments, and maybe you'll start to realize that Pete has both strong points (his aid climbing experience, his skillful sales persona, his many epic adventures on El Cap) and his weak points (somewhat infuriating idiosyncrasies that are best left unexplored).
I come not to bury Dr. Piton, but to praise him. Is lunacy just an amplified form of genius? I sure don't know. But like any other 'Internet superhero' he does not earn any right to special treatment. Pete has much to offer, some things to answer for, and as all of us fall short of perfection, it's probably best to leave it at that.
His writings certainly stir the pot, and some of the things he's explained on this site are not (as far as I know) documented anywhere else that such a wide audience could find them. For that, and for his freely contributed photo-essays of the walls he has done (many of them with members of this site), he deserves a lot of credit. His chosen means of expression rubs some people the wrong way, but, such is life...
Probably the best advice I can give to people who really cannot stand Pete's online persona, is to ignore him, with finality, by dropping him in a killfile. The many fans of Dr. Piton will continue to enjoy his antics, and the people who can't stand him, won't have to hear from him.
The more experienced aid climbers who choose to debate methods and merits with Pete, know exactly what they're getting into, so I'll leave that topic alone. Karl, Bryan, Ammon, and other hardmen do not need my advice!
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tenn_dawg
Apr 14, 2003, 1:46 AM
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In reply to: The more experienced aid climbers who choose to debate methods and merits with Pete, know exactly what they're getting into, so I'll leave that topic alone. Karl, Bryan, Ammon, and other hardmen do not need my advice!
My thoughts exactly. I had a revalation that I didin't have any business getting involved in an argument between these guys. I started to, but with the above comment, I'm leaving this alone.
If I can't help myself, and post on a later date, someone please call Bullsh*t on me, and remind me of this statement.
Have fun with this Guys, I hope it is worth the trouble to you.
Travis
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flamer
Apr 14, 2003, 5:43 AM
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Wow!! Somebody dug up an old post of mine!! Do I get "Punk Points"????
josh
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pbjosh
Apr 14, 2003, 7:10 AM
Post #33 of 44
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In reply to: "Pass the Cheater Stick Melissa"
I vote for similar forum "F*ckin' suck it up already and just do something" to cover things like being on your first wall and learning to use brute force to manhandle the pig when you don't use load release knots or when the hauling sucks, or the tons of other situations where you don't need a handy dandy hauling ratchet and a magic knot and a continuous loop self belay and a tag line but you need some gumption, ingenuity and perseverance ;)
josh
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rrrADAM
Apr 21, 2003, 2:31 PM
Post #34 of 44
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In reply to: I will step in here to say that about 2 years ago...I shorten his moniker to PTPP...I am way to lazy to type that user ID of his...so I guess I helped give him his identiy too 8) just watching thses threads today and thinking I want a part too.
Another little known FACT...
It was my idea for PTPP to get his own Forum. I rallied the site to make it so, and even came up with the name "Dr Piton", as he was leaning towards "Professor Piton". :roll:
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alpinestylist
Apr 21, 2003, 4:36 PM
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So if you live in a flat state, and constantly jones about getting up your first el cap route or wall in general PTPP's rant is probably somewhat helpful, and you sit and eat it up, take notes whatever.
Your first trip to the valley, in between bailing and hopefully sending you are going to run into PTPP's yoda...a fellow named Chongo who is a character unto himself. All of Pete's "better way" stuff is directly transcribed from Chongo's big wall manifesto. INteresting how Pete never throws him any props (we know you edited this uber-work Pete).
Back to flatlander newby...you are going to get to the first anchor in about 13 hours leading with all the "better way" trinkets in tow. Adjustable daisy chain, adjustable fifi, adjustable aiders...AAAAAAARGGG!
You are going to need pictures and notes to set up all of your systems, initially you will think that it is cool to be able to carry your girlfriends solar powered hair curlers and extra water. When/if you ever get to the top you will be regretting it, as getting to the top is always just half way. Like to see the better way on the Diamond.
After very few pitches/walls you are going to figure that a little elbow grease cuts many more corners than the better way, and saves TONS of time.
Aiding at a high level (ESPECIALLY just on the captain) is the easiest genre of climbing to excel at. My cousin climbed sea of dreams before he could lead 5.8. WHile Pete has climbed some difficult aid climbs, in my book this doesn't amount to too much. I'm glad he is out there climbing, and not reconing elementary school recess. He is probably a really interesting insurance agent.
It would be nice to see Chongo givin some recognition for many of the better way systems...oh yeah, by the way I use the load release knot on my pig.
Somebody should ask PTPP the better way to haul the first pitches of Aurora.
Flamer, you surprise me, you should be out flaming...
cheers,
secret EP miscreant
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alpinestylist
Apr 21, 2003, 5:34 PM
Post #36 of 44
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Flamer... we've met, non?
I thought you were Josh Wharton (very VERY proud brotha)
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epic_ed
Apr 21, 2003, 6:12 PM
Post #37 of 44
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I gotta disagree with you about the credit to Chongo. Pete often refers to him as his own Big Wall Doctor, and has given props to him on numerous occasions. Pete is a shameless self-promoter, but this is an area where he generally gives credit where credit is due.
Ed
(PS -- Pete did NOT PM me asking to post this, though it is kinda sad I feel a need to add this disclaimer).
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flamer
Apr 21, 2003, 7:25 PM
Post #38 of 44
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Alpinestylist,
Yes we know each other. I climb with Hemmes alot.
And I'd have to agree with you about Wharton....
josh
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coyoteblues
Apr 22, 2003, 1:02 AM
Post #39 of 44
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In reply to: I gotta disagree with you about the credit to Chongo. Pete often refers to him as his own Big Wall Doctor, and has given props to him on numerous occasions. Pete is a shameless self-promoter, but this is an area where he generally gives credit where credit is due.
Sometimes, yes.
Here's one I think it a little telling though:
In reply to: It was only the other day when I actually dug the book out of the box in which it had been buried for many years, blew the dust off of it, and actually verified its existence. I was relieved to see that the book upon which I had invested the better part of two years editing was in fact a real book. Since I had not seen it for some time, I was relieved to find that it did indeed exist, despite what some of my detractors may have suggested. You may well be interested to note that everything I have written for so far for rockclimbing.com has been completely original and came from nothing more than my experience of having spent 136 nights or so living on the side of El Capitan. I did not refer to the book to write my text. I did not need to. I did not want to.
So you spend two years editing a book (which supposes you must have read everything in it) and you want to claim that everything you have written yourself on RC.com is "completely original." Interesting. Maybe ptpp's right. (Maybe up until Nov 2001 he hadn't really written anything on RC.com about big wall methods.) But just because you didn't look at the book while typing doesn't mean that your word are "completely original". I'm sure my high school English teacher would have accepted that idea when I claimed all the information in my term paper was "completely original".
So sometimes, yes, he gives credit where due. But....
Here's the url on that quote if you're my English teacher: http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4561
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copperhead
Apr 22, 2003, 5:51 PM
Post #40 of 44
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I found this on ST and thought it was interesting...
In reply to: I personally know Pete and have done a wall with Pete. Pete is commonly refered to as Pass the Piton Pete or the one I like "The Canadian Assassin". His techniques can/will kill you; and you won't realize it until its to late. Send me an email if you'd like, and I can go into greater explanation. But i refuse to elaborate because of the millions of opionions that will follow this thread.
-AngryT
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?m=18691&f=0&b=0
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passthepitonspete
Apr 22, 2003, 6:07 PM
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I remember Tim well. He and I climbed the Muir Wall. He had a devil of a time.
I extended the olive branch to Tim here, and I was quite pleased when he accepted it in PMs and apologized, which is where discussions like this belong, not in public forums.
That being said, the post that I have linked above is worth reading from Page 1 if for no other reason than to see Hillary's superlative debating skills. She makes some people look pretty darn silly, really.
Cheers,
Pete
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rockmx
Apr 22, 2003, 6:42 PM
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Hello Doc. Piton,
I have noticing that you have been receiving a lot of s__t in the past days, please take note that I really like you posts, I have been using you systems in a lot of Mexican Walls and they work fine (the are the better way)
Please continue the good work and please keep posting you ideas!!!
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tim
Apr 22, 2003, 6:47 PM
Post #43 of 44
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Nb. this would be a different Tim than me.
I have never climbed with Pete and may or may not ever do so, since we have rather vastly different ideas of what makes for a fun climb. Regardless, my opinions are based solely on my interactions with Pete online and a modicum of hearsay...
Whichever Tim is being referred to, it ain't me. All my aiding has been done in New England. (Well, New England and New York. And a day at Nelson "sport hooking" with Jeff Wright. And a day of "get that rack up around your ears" intro-to-aid with my buddy Doug at Consumnes. But I've never even set foot on the Captain thus far, which is the point.)
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