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seatbeltpants
Sep 17, 2008, 12:07 AM
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did you just "amen" your own response to a thread you dug up from five years ago???
steve
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el_layclimber
Sep 17, 2008, 12:27 AM
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hallelujah!
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jeremy11
Sep 17, 2008, 2:21 AM
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blah blah blah nuts blah blah cams blah blah......
I just hammer pitons in everywhere. cheap, bomber, old school, weird, destructive.... wonderful!
sheesh.
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kane_schutzman
Sep 17, 2008, 2:36 AM
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Charlie, I am also a victim of the cams conveinance. I place them all the time. The only time I place a nut is when Im cruising and find a perfect pocket that looks like its build for the perfect nut. I do however use lots a passive in my achors. When I first started Trad though, I did place alot of nuts. but thats because I didnt have many cams. lol.
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i_h8_choss
Sep 17, 2008, 3:42 AM
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[quote "charlie53"]Over the past year or two I have progressively been placing more cams and less passive gear. I always set a multi-directional anchor at the start of a pitch and for this I use cams, hexes and nuts. When climbing however, I have almost gotten to the point where I place only cams. Is it just me or is passive pro on the way out?
Charlie
[/quote]
holy shit. this thread is awsome. the beauty of placing gear is in art-form in my opinion. its nice to hear others speak of this delicate art. allright....im going crack climbing. my nuts are so sly and slide in real nice while my cams are placed w/ pure accuracy and precision. put a piece in bi-atch. sweeeet. next pitch----
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petsfed
Sep 17, 2008, 3:49 AM
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This thread hungers for braaaaaiiiiiiinnnnsssss!
Just to add fuel to the fire: I only carry my #9 hex these days. All of my other hexes stay on the ground (in the closet, really). I have one set of stoppers. And nearly a triple set of cams (I've only a single set south of a .75 camalot, and only doubles above a #5 friend).
I've recently started placing more and more nuts, for the simple reason that my interests have tended towards thinner cracks. Since I lack the fingers rack of my dreams, I have to use nuts, and also because a key-lock nut placement simply will not take a cam as well.
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dlintz
Sep 17, 2008, 4:33 AM
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Thanks nut scratcher for resurrecting a 6 year old thread, that first page is full of responses from peeps I don't see around this site anymore (sniff).
d.
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dingus
Sep 17, 2008, 5:04 AM
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Good ole jt dispensing wisdom... he had more patience back then. Hair too probably.
I carry 6 nuts on my normal rack. They are HB Offsets, Rulers of the Wasteland, far superior to ALL OTHER NUTS.
The reason I only carry 6 is they are THAT GOOD.
I used to carry a whole biner of BD nuts too. Then I found myself fiddling the BDs into spots where the Offsets RULED, simply to try and conserve them for higher in the pitch.
How WHACK is THAT?
So like I experimented with the ole 'ooops, I did it again (left the BDs in the car). I found I missed them not.
In general unless its a perfect nut placement I prefer a cam for many reasons previously stated.
But those offsets will fit where NOTHING else will.
I'm tellin ya.... Rulers.
of the Wasteland.
DMT
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mtnrock
Sep 17, 2008, 10:16 PM
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i just hate falling on my nuts any time i just hurts so much
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kennoyce
Sep 17, 2008, 10:41 PM
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well said Thomas, Long time no see, we need to climb together soon. now, onto the question at hand. No, passive isn't going out. Passive pro rocks, and is much more bomber in many instances. I agree that hexes are only good in the sizes larger than nuts, why anyone would ever buy hexes in sizes overlapping nuts is beyond me, but hey, I'm sure there are people who prefer hexes to nuts, all though I've never met anyone like this. lastly, cams do rock when you pumped, or just trying to go fast.
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kennoyce
Sep 17, 2008, 10:48 PM
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I love the fact that I just replied to this post, and then realized that my friend Thomas who I was replying to had written his post back in 2002, that rocks. anyway great job digging up an old, but never dead thread whoever did it.
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nut_scratcher
Sep 18, 2008, 12:26 AM
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no, i was trying to amen something completely different and don't know how to use blogs. And i didn't dig anything up. why do you care?
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seatbeltpants
Sep 18, 2008, 12:35 AM
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meh, i just always find it odd when post to old threads and the conversation carries on like there hadn't be a five year pause.
carry on!
steve
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quiteatingmysteak
Sep 18, 2008, 1:02 AM
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I think its impossible to invent a cover - all rule for which is 'better,' and favor the tool-for-the-trade aspect.
When I am climbing a route at my limit (which is mid 5.10) I usually bring a few light nuts. Sometimes you get a good stance, and a buried nut inspires a lot of confidence. When the climbing gets harder and the placements more strenuous, I go for cams (probably exclusively). Now, a partner of mine (who is much, much stronger) doesn't consider himself much of a "trad" climber, but will hang off a crimp and fiddle with nuts (he is a mutant). It works for him, but goddamn, I ain't strong enough to wank with a nut like that!
NOW! The juice. Most of my climbing is done on long, easy, fun routes far below my level. I bring a set of DMM offsets (they be the best!) and a smattering of metolius TCU's / 4CU's. I work at a gear shop and got a good deal on these pricey light cams, and the whole rack is pretty light. If I plan on simul climbing long sections I might take more cams, but rarely more nuts. It takes longer to fiddle em in, they each require their own seperate sling and a biner (in a pinch a cam can also become a quickdraw!) and, really, seem best to build belays with and leave if you gotta bail.
Nuts have their place, some love em and some don't. I saw Beth Rodden in Dosage V placing a nut on a 5.13 stance, so I know it can be done. Not for me tho.... I'll just sink in a bomber cam and keep going.
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nut_scratcher
Sep 18, 2008, 3:35 PM
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ok yeah, now i see how old this thread is. haha. oh well, i guess i'm not really helping my cause by resurrecting an argument in the same comment in which i tried to end it.
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hansundfritz
Sep 18, 2008, 3:54 PM
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Large hexes come in handy when you can't reach the fist hand-hold -- just step up on that #12 and get 4 more inches of reach.
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jaablink
Sep 18, 2008, 4:29 PM
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2 more cents: both nut and cam placements are equally as fast to place. If they are not for you , you are not proficient enough in one or the other. You should practice your weak areas to become better overall. It will be a benefit to you.
As far as one being better than the other in a placement. Its all relative.
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hafilax
Sep 18, 2008, 9:58 PM
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You can always short clip the sling on a cam but you typically have to put a sling on a nut so it may take the same time to place it but once you incorporate clipping a draw the time to place a nut has to be longer on average.
There are many pin scarred cracks around here that will only take nuts and others where cams will plug up the only useful hold whereas a nut still allows some usage of the pin scar as a hand and a foot hold.
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jaablink
Sep 18, 2008, 10:36 PM
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You should be carrying single-length runners quick-draw style. This way you can cover 3 different lengths by unclipping it from 1 or 2 of the 3 loops . This will work for all protective equipment. i.e. cams nuts hex….
Perfect practice makes perfect
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tradrenn
Sep 20, 2008, 2:46 AM
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halifax wrote: There are many pin scarred cracks around here that will only take nuts
Please name a few routes.
Just curious.
Thanks.
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sungam
Sep 20, 2008, 7:04 PM
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dlintz wrote: Thanks nut scratcher for resurrecting a 6 year old thread, that first page is full of responses from peeps I don't see around this site anymore (sniff). d.
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mtnrock
Sep 21, 2008, 12:24 AM
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i find nuts easier to place no things to pull and i find that its hard to get deep in a crack with a cam. and alot of the time you should double the length of a sling on a cam so it doesn't walk in and you lose your cam
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Yogisan
Sep 23, 2008, 7:19 PM
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LOL! On my first trad lead... I placed a mix of stoppers and cams plus one hex. Because I was so green I swear it took just as long to place one as the other. It was terrifying... most execellent. Honestly, I would be hard pressed if told I had to choose one or the other. So much depends on how I am feeling and the nature of the route. I love the feeling of being pumped out, a little desperate, and placing that cam quickly. Other times I love the challenge of finding that really bomber nut placement and the elegance of the simplicty it provides. I do know that I tend to place cams more often than other forms of pro (including tricams, stoppers, and hexes) and so if I don't practice my passive pro placement gets sloppy. Also, I have a hard time trusting my larger cams as I feel they tend to walk quite a bit more. It is hard to beat a Big Bro for scenarios like this. Just my opinion.
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hafilax
Sep 23, 2008, 8:59 PM
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tradrenn wrote: halifax wrote: There are many pin scarred cracks around here that will only take nuts Please name a few routes. Just curious. Thanks.
I haven't climbed any finger cracks this summer so my memory is fuzzy. I remember placing lots of nuts on Exasperator and not for a lack of cams. I climbed Dierdre the other night which is rife with pin scars that won't take cams although I was so tired that I ended up running most of it out. It's easy to do when you can't see your last piece anyway. I remember taking a few falls onto a nut on the Sword. If it would have taken a good cam I'm sure I would have plugged it.
A guy died after a cam pulled on Flying Circus which takes nuts pretty easily. Like Exasperator, a good finger lock pin scar makes for a good nut. There's such a range of nut sized that will fit yet only one cam size that will so nut placements are often easier to judge.
I'm struggling a bit so I guess it was an overstatement. YMMV
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