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climbingkidd
Apr 1, 2005, 2:41 AM
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I know you all know what soloing is, but since it has two meanings I'm talking about climbing a route with no rope. Whats everyone think about this? Personally I like to solo as long as you take the necessary precautions, and know your limitations, How 'bout You? :?:
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kman
Apr 1, 2005, 2:51 AM
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What precautions??
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bouldertom
Apr 1, 2005, 2:57 AM
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As for me, I usually don't relate soloing with sport climbing.
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spikeyhair13
Apr 1, 2005, 4:04 AM
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Kman is right, seriously, what precautions ? what can u do to prevent you from falling. after about 25-30 feet that crash pad isnt going to help much.
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obe
Apr 1, 2005, 4:47 AM
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I think free-soloing is incredible. I vowed never to do it though,...well, maybe if it is like a 5.3 or 5.4. :D
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simplistic
Apr 1, 2005, 5:02 AM
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In reply to: Kman is right, seriously, what precautions ? what can u do to prevent you from falling. after about 25-30 feet that crash pad isnt going to help much.
I am no soloist, but would submit that any person who does solo, at any grade, would have to ensure that they were solid at the grade and would have to be grounded in their ability to to the point that the possibility of catastrophe, or even the thought of it was, was not present. If a climber has done this, and again I offer this for discussion and do not make any claims myself, then...they have made the neccesary precautions by honestly evaluating their abilities in light of the challenge they choose.
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alderak
Apr 1, 2005, 5:09 AM
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precautions..... like using a rope?
seriously though, I can feel the allure... but I'll never sucumb to it because I'd rather climb for the rest of my (long) life than take a chance with immediate gradification.
so little to gain, so much to lose.
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karlbaba
Apr 1, 2005, 6:14 AM
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Probably not the best subject for the sport climbing forum but..
When you're driving, you have to trust yourself not to drift into oncoming traffic. When you're walking, you have to trust yourself not to wander into a busy street without looking first.
When you can do a certain climb with that level of confidence, it's probably safe to solo.
Peace
karl
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sick_climba
Apr 1, 2005, 8:17 AM
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i love free soloing! i thinkn the best i can do is a high 6 to low 7 tho... but it is so incredible! liek every second could very well be your last if you don't make the right moves! it streaches your mental ability to the max and i think its awesome, even if there is a chance of falling and dieing... i mean as long as you die doing somthing you love right? well thats my additude anyway.
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forjoke
Apr 1, 2005, 9:57 AM
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I tried some roped solo and once injuried left knee when falled. I gave up since then. haven't free soloed before, don't want to try, there is always something you cannot control, the price is too high.It is a serious game, someone plays it well, and i respect them.
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dbrayack
Apr 1, 2005, 11:33 AM
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I do it, but I get scared, I don't know why I do it really, it just sort of happens.....Maybe it has something to do with my hero being peter croft?
Then again, as Bachar puts it, its darwin's theory, the stupid one's die, I hope that I am not a stupid one......
Of to quote Hannibal Lector, One of my parents was a deep roller, lets hope that both weren't
-Dan
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atropine
Apr 1, 2005, 11:42 AM
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I could never stick the overhang at our local - until i tired it solo. The lack of a rope makes you that much more inclined to dig deep & hold on. Also see Güllich on Action Directe. There has to be a point where a calculated risk becomes stupidity tho.
Solo climbing is a bad idea and you will get hurt - so stay in bed instead.
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ajkclay
Apr 1, 2005, 1:38 PM
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I look at soloing as being as close to pure climbing as I can get.
No ropes etc., just me, my shoes, chalkbag and the rock.
no chalk, and others would say no shoes, but that's the thing, soloing is really an individual pursuit.>
Sometimes I will onsight solo something because I like the look of the line and it looks like something I can do, while other times I will solo something because it is a favourite route that I have totally wired. The grade does not matter, some are quite easy, others very hard, but the one piece of safety equipment that I always use is the most important one: my brain.
I always try to make sure that I know when to back off (and have an escape plan), test every hold before trusting it 'fully' and don't let the thought of topping out cloud my better judgement; much better to back off with my tail between my legs than to leave in a helicopter. These are all precautions that can be taken, no rope does not equal no safety precautions.
my 2 cents
Adam :)
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tradnomad
Apr 1, 2005, 2:17 PM
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In reply to: I could never stick the overhang at our local - until i tired it solo. The lack of a rope makes you that much more inclined to dig deep & hold on. Also see Güllich on Action Directe. There has to be a point where a calculated risk becomes stupidity tho.
Here's some good advice... if you can't do the route, try it without a rope to motivate you to send!?!? That's a good way to end up dead.
And what does Güllich on Action Directe have to do with soloing?? He definitely never soloed it.
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greengoblin
Apr 1, 2005, 3:04 PM
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If there is any doubt in your mind, DO NOT EVER SOLO.
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viacontinuum
Apr 1, 2005, 4:21 PM
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some precautions you might be able to take before free soloing... know the route you're going to climb and know it well. bring along some friends, so if you do fall, they can at least call an ambulance. better yet, call the ambulance beforehand, just in case. and last but not least, do it over deep water.
i've considered free soloing before but never done it. i always assumed i'd do it on a route i'd tried before, and knew like the back of my hand. but then the other day i just jumped on this really nice, really easy-looking line, and i think not having the expectation of cruxes helped me climb more relaxed. having said that, it was probably a 5.5, so that also might've been why i was more relaxed.
what do you guys think? would you ever try free soloing a route you didn't know very well, or at all?
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viacontinuum
Apr 1, 2005, 4:24 PM
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Some precautions you might be able to take before free soloing: know the route you're going to climb and know it well, bring along some friends so if you do fall they can at least call an ambulance, or better yet, call the ambulance beforehand just in case, and last but not least, do it over deep water.
I've considered free soloing before but never done it. I always assumed I'd do it on a route I'd tried many times, and knew like the back of my hand. But then the other day I just jumped on this really nice, really easy-looking line, and I think not having the expectation of cruxes helped me climb more relaxed. Having said that, it was probably a 5.5, so that also might've been why I was more relaxed.
What do you guys think? Would you ever try free soloing a route you didn't know very well, or at all?
Peace, and happy soloing
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gochubug
Apr 1, 2005, 5:06 PM
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It seems like a few free soloists buy the farm every year, even very good ones.
The biggest risk IMO is not so much the climber’s skill coming up short, but such uncontrollable factors as a sudden unexpected rain shower getting everything wet and slick, or a big wind gust coming by just at a critical move.
If you are onsighting a route, how do you know all the holds are solid? All it takes is one unexpected loose hold or falling rock to deep-6 you and your whole future.
It’s fun to watch guys like Bachar and Croft on video, but I for one, am going to leave it to them. Like Spuds MacKenzie said just before the truck flattened him,
“Sh*t happens!” :shock:
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nthusiastj
Apr 1, 2005, 5:39 PM
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i im thankin free soloeing is like the pyoorist climbin right? im likin soloing cause its kool. Plus i don't have geer. Am i cool if i solo?
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dingus
Apr 1, 2005, 5:42 PM
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That is the question?
DMT
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piton
Apr 1, 2005, 7:08 PM
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i never solo! my blowup doll (Cindy) goes everywhere i go.
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reprieve
Apr 1, 2005, 7:24 PM
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In reply to: bring along some friends, so if you do fall, they can at least call an ambulance. better yet, call the ambulance beforehand, just in case.
the next time I solo some 5.7 jug haul I'll be sure to have all my buddies standing around with cell phones in hand...
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juprex_z
Apr 1, 2005, 8:31 PM
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thanks with this site
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tim
Apr 1, 2005, 8:50 PM
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great fun, provided you don't fall. (totally serious here)
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rockmx
Apr 1, 2005, 8:56 PM
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100% personal decision, it’s no wrong o right to solo if it’s something you really want to do.
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fiend
Apr 1, 2005, 9:33 PM
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#1 - The first rule of soling is, you do not talk about soloing.
#2 - The second rule of soling is, you DO NOT talk about soloing.
#3 - If someone cries, gets pumped, or decks, the climb is over.
#4 - One guy to a climb.
#5 - One climb at a time.
#6 - No harnes, no rope.
#7 - Climbs will go on as long as they have to.
#8 - If this is your first time soloing, you have to climb.
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jaybro
Apr 1, 2005, 9:54 PM
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"To solo or not to solo"
If you can decide just be considering the question, then don't solo.
-partime soloist
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sick_climba
Apr 2, 2005, 6:07 AM
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what do you guys think? would you ever try free soloing a route you didn't know very well, or at all?[/,
YEs of course, i always look at the route first and make sure its not more that a low 7 but i do onsight free sloling all the time, infact thats how i got into climbing
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danpayne
Apr 2, 2005, 6:27 AM
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In reply to: What precautions??
Hello!!!
Last Will and Testiment...
oh and
Making sure your shoes are tied....
Thats about it...
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g-funk
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Apr 2, 2005, 7:03 AM
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In reply to: #1 - The first rule of soling is, you do not talk about soloing. #2 - The second rule of soling is, you DO NOT talk about soloing. #3 - If someone cries, gets pumped, or decks, the climb is over. #4 - One guy to a climb. #5 - One climb at a time. #6 - No harnes, no rope. #7 - Climbs will go on as long as they have to. #8 - If this is your first time soloing, you have to climb.
That's pretty funny. . .and a great book by the way.
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fiend
Apr 2, 2005, 7:20 AM
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As much as I hate it when people try to tell others what they should and should not discuss... it is my opinion that soloing is not one of those things that should be talked about in circumstances like those found on forums. It always just comes off as spraying... something that should not be a motive for soloing.
I know people that solo harder than many people lead on gear and they rarely talk about it.
In response to what someone asked in an earlier post: all the free soloing I've done has been onsight.
See what I mean about it sounding like spray? :P
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horseonwheels
Apr 2, 2005, 9:33 AM
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In reply to: i mean as long as you die doing somthing you love right? well thats my additude anyway.
You might want to rethink your "additude" given that you are fifteen! Not to say that your opinion is not valid, but I'm a very different person now than when I was fifteen and its only been 8 years. I would hate to have made many major life decisions for myself when I was fifteen.
In reply to: I know people that solo harder than many people lead on gear and they rarely talk about it.
Exactly! If you take pride in telling other people that you free-soloed something, you're not doing it for the right reason.
In reply to: bring along some friends, so if you do fall, they can at least call an ambulance. better yet, call the ambulance beforehand, just in case.
It's my opinion that you should never have anyone with you if you're free-soloing. If you're not willing to accept complete death and or hours and days of painful dying agony at the base of the crag, then you shouldn't be doing it in the first place. You shouldn't make your friends have to suffer the pain of seeing your cratered body for the rest of their lives. It's your decision, don't force any part of it on anyone else.
By the way, I will not climb with anyone that I know that free-solos (aside from the fourth and low fifth class scrambling, although I don't really like that either). I was climbing with some people once and one of the climbers soloed the route that we were just about to set up a TR on. I was pissed, what right is it of his to decide that his free-solo was to be part of our day as well? Not to mention that he made some bullshit comment about forgetting his rope to the girls at the top of the route. That was the last time I climbed with him.
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ajkclay
Apr 2, 2005, 2:43 PM
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In reply to: In response to what someone asked in an earlier post: all the free soloing I've done has been onsight. See what I mean about it sounding like spray? :P
I reckon it's only a spray if the intent is to make other people think how great you are to puff up your own ego.
Didn't sound like you were spraying to me, it was an honest answer to a question :)
Adam
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lucas_timmer
Apr 2, 2005, 3:47 PM
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If you can ''feel'' the route, and done it a hundred times and you're ready for it than I understand that you want to solo it.But if you have never even climbed it before, or you're mind is ready for it than you shouldn't.
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dingus
Apr 2, 2005, 4:38 PM
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Free soloing isn't just about doing some 5 dot wow route sans rope. Or a bunch of them. Or Potter or Croft doing something legendary. Or someone trying to make a buck off a website.
Its also about punters making snap decisions to scramble up 50 feet of jugs.
Its about mountaineers, experienced and noobs too, scrambling up gradually steepening terrain till they glance betwixt their feet and notice the slightest slip will result in a 1000 foot fall. Its about following a more experienced partner up the approach terrain and knowing when to say when.
Because of this, I think it is healthy to talk about it.
I appreciate fiends warnings. But I don't believe in the purity of the 'don't talk about fight club' ethic. I think most everyone who has ever climbed sans rope has felt the tug, the terrible temptation of doing it for props. Even the likes of Croft and Potter do it... to make money in their cases.
Of course there are zen masters who do not ever talk about fight club.
And there are young men who only do it to talk about fight club.
Marines go to war in many cases to prove something to themselves. So do soloists and make no mistake, this is a young man's temptation. We do it as kids, we dare one another... there is no denying it.
There's a million stories in the city.
I do a lot of mountaineering. I do a goodly amount of it solo. Nothing hard, don't get me wrong. I'm a punter. But punter or not, mountaineers are frequently confronted with the decision... rope/no rope, continue/backoff.
It has been healthy for me to read the thoughts of others on free soloing. I have gotten better about backing off. A few times I pushed through my comfort zone and 3rd classed terrain upon which I was very uncomfortable, VERY. I could name the climbs, but that isn't the point. Suffice it to say they were all easy. Easy or not, free soloing when your mind is roiling, when you are fighting yourself to suppress the terror... when you get to the summit and you are vibrating like a tuning fork... there is both a horror and a seduction.
You are 500 feet up a 1000 foot climb and suddenly you lose the head and have to confront the elemental 'dark side of the moon.' And having come to that realization, you STILL HAVE TO CLIMB another 500 feet. I've had that happen to me. I didn't puke afterward, but I needed to...
I like knowing I can summon the resolve to do this... to push through my fear. But I have wisened to the point that I am much better at avoiding that confrontation entirely now. Chickened out, if you prefer. I am better at chickening out. Because I know in my dark heart I can push through all the way to death. I can, and I know it now.
A soloist at JT last fall fell off a route from 100 feet up and miraculously survived, though with catastrophic injuries. His name is James and it was discussed extensively here and even more on supertopo.com. He has been so totally uprfront about it all it is amazing. I think anyone who is contemplating a career of free soloing owes it to herself to read those threads, especially the parts about the injuries and the recovery prospects.
http://www.supertopo.com/...ml?m=52647&f=70&b=25
LatER!
DMT
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flamer
Apr 2, 2005, 4:42 PM
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And DMT sums it all up nicely.....
josh
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epic_ed
Apr 2, 2005, 4:53 PM
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epic_ed moved this thread from Sport Climbing to General.
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csgambill
Apr 2, 2005, 5:43 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I could never stick the overhang at our local - until i tired it solo. The lack of a rope makes you that much more inclined to dig deep & hold on. Also see Güllich on Action Directe. There has to be a point where a calculated risk becomes stupidity tho. Here's some good advice... if you can't do the route, try it without a rope to motivate you to send!?!? That's a good way to end up dead. And what does Güllich on Action Directe have to do with soloing?? He definitely never soloed it.
Hey, each to his own. If it's not you that ends up dead, and it's the other guys own decision, who cares. The risks of freesoloing are pretty damn obvious.
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theflyingsquirrel
Apr 2, 2005, 5:45 PM
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hmmmm the only time i'd solo is while deep water bouldering on a highball problem like at the river. ( im talking about the susquehanna river mainly the part thats in York where its ya know 50-100 ft. deep, plus the walls ain't that high 30ft max)
the way i see it water feels so much better than ground, especially if you colided with either.
then again if you want to be captain kirk and solo el capitan lets hope spauk? is there to catch your ass when you fall
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sick_climba
Apr 2, 2005, 11:35 PM
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In reply to: You might want to rethink your "additude" given that you are fifteen! Not to say that your opinion is not valid, but I'm a very different person now than when I was fifteen and its only been 8 years. I would hate to have made many major life decisions for myself when I was fifteen. |
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horseonwheels
Apr 3, 2005, 12:18 AM
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In reply to: i apperciate your input man, but isn't that part of climbing? i mean, in my opionion at least, to be able to climb at your full potential then you gotta be able to accept the fact that you are going to die at some point anyway, so there is no point in fearing it. becasue if you fear death, then you most likly fear falling, and then you're gunna cling to the rock and you're gunna get pumed every time you make a wrong, or quick though move. in turn you will not be able to take huge risks neaded to climb to the full potenial your body will alow. all i'm saying is that personaly, even though i am only 15, i die when i die and as long as i do it doing somthing i love i'm ok with that, because i will have gone down in a great state of mind.
I completely understand what you're saying, but there are many things that are more important to me than climbing. I hope that I will be climbing for most of the rest of my life, but I realize that there's a chance I won't. However, I do know that I want to see my family for the rest of my life and have good times with my friends. Obviously climbing requires some level of risk, but I try to minimize it as much as possible.
People have said this before, but I would bet that nobody who has died free-soloing has said, "Man, that was so worth it," on the way to the ground.
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sick_climba
Apr 3, 2005, 12:37 AM
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In reply to: I completely understand what you're saying, but there are many things that are more important to me than climbing. I hope that I will be climbing for most of the rest of my life, but I realize that there's a chance I won't. However, I do know that I want to see my family for the rest of my life and have good times with my friends. Obviously climbing requires some level of risk, but I try to minimize it as much as possible. People have said this before, but I would bet that nobody who has died free-soloing has said, "Man, that was so worth it," on the way to the ground |
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fiend
Apr 3, 2005, 1:05 AM
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dingus: Very good points. I guess I just haven't come across any of the rational discussions yet (not to say that there aren't any out there) and read too many of the posts that just make all the contributors sound like morons.
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michael
Apr 3, 2005, 1:50 AM
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In reply to: #1 - The first rule of soling is, you do not talk about soloing. #2 - The second rule of soling is, you DO NOT talk about soloing.
pfft. First rule of soloing is only do it for yourself. Any other reason and you're going to die or get seriously injured. No other rules apply.
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fiend
Apr 3, 2005, 2:08 AM
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pfft.
The paraphrasing of Chuck Palahniuk was a joke. I hope people realized that.
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dingus
Apr 3, 2005, 2:57 AM
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In reply to: dingus: Very good points. I guess I just haven't come across any of the rational discussions yet (not to say that there aren't any out there) and read too many of the posts that just make all the contributors sound like morons.
Well bro, count yours and mine as the first!
Cheers
DMT
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gochubug
Apr 4, 2005, 3:18 AM
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In reply to: all i'm saying is that personaly, even though i am only 15, i die when i die and as long as i do it doing somthing i love i'm ok with that, because i will have gone down in a great state of mind.
IMHO, as you spend the rest of your life watching the deck get closer and hearing that wind whistling in your ears, your state of mind will be sheer unmitigated terror.
In reply to: People have said this before, but I would bet that nobody who has died free-soloing has said, "Man, that was so worth it," on the way to the ground.
And I think that's probably a safe bet.
Those are personal opinions only, and I don't expect you or anyone else to agree with or endorse them, but I've had many more years to think about them than you have (when I was 15, JFK was president and rock climbing was still mostly considered a lunatic-fringe activity).
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sick_climba
Apr 5, 2005, 6:22 AM
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well dude not to be an ass or anything, but you havn't lived my life, you don't know my life, so youdon't understand why i would be willing to give my life to climbing... it's the reason i am still here man... yeah thats why i have that additude twrds climbing
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gargrantuan
Apr 5, 2005, 6:45 AM
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In reply to: you havn't lived my life, you don't know my life, so youdon't understand why i would be willing to give my life to climbing
the "you don't know me" defense, beautiful.
next he'll say, "you guys should relax, it is just the internet."
followed by, "if you met me, you'd know how smart/articulate/awesome i am."
/something about arguing on the internet
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loadstar
Apr 5, 2005, 4:15 PM
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The purpose of free soloing is to produce freedom for you and others.
There were many divers who could go out sea to dive for the pearls. They relied on their strengths of experience to make these journeys. Very few could go to the deepest regions to get the best.
Jim Bridwell once said about free soloing “So little to gain and so much to loose.”
If that were true then no one would do it. So many great climbers in the past have done it.
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gochubug
Apr 5, 2005, 4:55 PM
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In reply to: well dude not to be an ass or anything, but you havn't lived my life, you don't know my life, so youdon't understand why i would be willing to give my life to climbing... it's the reason i am still here man... yeah thats why i have that additude twrds climbing
Now having said that, the last part is the key. I know this is going to sound corny and dramatic, but I'm going to say it anyway: if you die soloing, maybe it means nothing to you, but is there no one else who cares about you that your death just might cause a lot of pain and suffering? You might not think so, but you don't know the others in your life any better than you think they know you. I've recently retired from a 35+ year career teaching in high schools and middle schools, and I have known many 15 year old people who thought no one cared about them and they didn't care if they lived or died. Later on they realized differently.
I'm not saying you are one them--as you pointed out, I don't know you. But if you live to grow up, you just might look back on some ideas you have now and think twice about them. I'm not trying to lecture you and if I come across that way, I guess the old teacher mindset is still there. And I'm certainly not trying to tell you how to live or die, just suggesting something to think about.
One last point: if climbing is all that is keeping you alive, it must be really important to you and that is great. Climbing can do that. It's what I live to do also...but I want to live to enjoy it. I really envy you and wish I had as many years of climbing to look forward to as you have.
What I think I'm saying is if you don't care whether or not you die, it's more likely that you will. Live to climb and climb to live! Good Luck.
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saltamonte
Apr 5, 2005, 5:39 PM
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I do it every once in a while on very easy stuff (who knows the exact rating but probably 5.6 maybe 5.7 and below but that almost doesn't seem like climbing. I would compare it to going up the stairs without using the banaster for support and then acting as though you cheated death all though I guess if I was 150 feet up on a sheer 5.7 it might be alittle different. as for the real thing climbing say 5.9 or greater with no pro more than 20 feet off deck it is not really worth it to me. back in highschool i fell almost 30 feet I suppose I lost the feeling of invincability
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lucas_timmer
Apr 5, 2005, 5:54 PM
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Everytime I solo, I trust on Superman to catch me before I deck 8^)
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jorian_nl
Apr 5, 2005, 8:11 PM
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I only solo when I have no choice.
when I don't have my rope with me and i want to climb or when i want to set up a toperope and there are no bolts and it ain't to high.
I don't solo when i don't have to. if there is protection why don't you use it.
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sick_climba
Apr 6, 2005, 12:26 AM
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In reply to: Now having said that, the last part is the key. I know this is going to sound corny and dramatic, but I'm going to say it anyway: if you die soloing, maybe it means nothing to you, but is there no one else who cares about you that your death just might cause a lot of pain and suffering? |
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dingus
Apr 6, 2005, 1:03 AM
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The Seduction:
I learned to climb a lot from myself and some from a host of others. But for alpine climbing I was mentored.
My friend Stu was a hardman. He worked for Royal Robbins guiding and in his gear shop in Modesto back in the day. Watching him climb was a thing to produce awe. He had a calm style that would deceive deceive deceive. Till you realized he was tip toeing up runnout 5.11 or something. Or till you tried to follow him.
He'd done all the standard hardman routes in the Valley by the time I'd hooked up with him; Rostrum, Astroman, Hotline, the standards on the Cookie, etc.
We'd go to the Valley and at the drop of a hat I would find myself following him up routes I was unprepared to lead on my own.
Stu hails from the Chouinard school of light and fast in the mountains and he was a great mentor in that arena. But light and fast... in the mountains... often means doing without a rope.
So we're at the base of some ridge. He'd done it before, twas my first time.
The rope was in the car.
"You'll be fine Dingus!"
400 feet up, committing to middling 5th class moves, following a man I knew, knew in my heart and knew in my bones, could climb to places I could not follow, could calmly crank moves I could not repeat, I realized what it was I was doing...
free soloing on someone else's terms, not my own.
There are some kinds of fear I don't like feeling. I felt them that day.
Free soloing behind your betters on routes you've never laid eyes on can make your weenie hightail it clear to the back of your throat.
I know none of you are stupid enough to allow yourselves top be seduced into such a situation, right?
DMT
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method
Apr 6, 2005, 1:35 AM
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everyone soloes to one degree or another. whether or not its a crimpy 5.whatever or a 4th class scramble without a rope it is indeed soloing. not too long ago i gave a talk to my moms 5th grade class about climbing and understandably they were interested if i ever climb without ropes. of course i wasnt advocating technical climbing without ropes, however i did pose the example of how people of different abilities climb within different comfort zones. ie. the kinds in the class would and could climb a steep slope and feel comfortable and at ease while my mom would feel uncomfortable and insecure. i solo, though it is far below my leading level, others solo close to their leading level...........who cares
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horseonwheels
Apr 6, 2005, 2:07 AM
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In reply to: The Seduction:........................................... DMT
Once again, another great post by dingus.
I think people many times start doing it because they either see other people do it, or their friends encourage them or something. And I would hope that nobody uses the "I'm young and don't have any money" routine. That isn't the right reason to do most anything
First I'd like to say that I have done just enough soloing to know that I don't really like it. I realize that to many here, climbing is THE THING in their life that they care most about, and while I certainly love it, I don't want to die soloing because 1) I couldn't ever climb again, and 2) there are many other things in my life that I care about. Giving all of that up to get the feeling of "freedom" and "being alive" isn't worth it to me. Maybe to others it is.
Also, when I was a teenager I did plenty of stupid things that I could have died doing, and said that "it was fun because it made me feel alive." And I had friends that sat on the top of their car with their legs through the sunroof and drove down the highway doing 50; seriously!! I know I'm probably going to get a lot of shit from climbers that would say I'm an asshole and not a "true" climber for comparing the two, but to everyone else who isn't a climber, there isn't much difference. Both give you much the same feeling, and I understand the difference to climbers, but I would feel pretty stupid dying while taking an extremely unecessary risk.
So I'll stick to my rope, because I'll certainly have fun doing that hopefully for the rest of my life.
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gochubug
Apr 6, 2005, 5:13 AM
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Since I don't solo myself and have no intention of starting, I think I want to explain where some of the attitudes I've expressed in other posts on this thread come from...
I am pretty sure that many of the people on this board are familiar with Doug Robinson’s video Moving Over Stone. If you’re not, then you should check it out. It has some really good stuff in spite of being 20 years old.
Anyway, in it he says that he used to solo and broke his back soloing, that he “got off lightly” and now is “happy to rope up.” In the same video, he asks Peter Croft what he would say to young people who see his free solos in the video and try to emulate what he does. Croft says to never solo for any reason other than just for yourself. If you do it to impress others or to get notoriety, then you should think again. And if fall from 500 feet up while trying to impress someone, as you are spending the last seconds of your life in free fall, “you will have had a terrible joke played on you.”
I read an article many years ago by someone who barely survived a free solo at J-Tree that he did because someone else dared him to do it. Can you think of a worse reason? Anyway at the crux he almost fell, but managed to pull it out at the last second before he was about to peel off. He did an outstanding job of putting into writing the terror he felt up there. I can’t remember where I read it or who wrote it, but I’ll never forget the impression it made on me. :shock:
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boadman
Apr 7, 2005, 3:12 PM
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I know two people that have meat-rocked while free-soloing. One of them is going to be fine, if a little stiff. One of them is paralyzed below the waist. They were both solid climbers at the grade. Both of them will survive, maybe even be stronger people because of their experiences. But it put an enormous drain on their families, financially and emotionally. How would you like to know your son would never make love to a women again? Never run to pick up his son? The decisions you make while climbing affect those you love. I'm not ready for that sort of responsibility.
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clmbr121
Apr 7, 2005, 3:17 PM
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In reply to: When you can do a certain climb with that level of confidence, it's probably safe to solo.
I don't think you can ever use the words "safe" and "solo" in the same sentence. For that matter, "safe" and "climbing" don't go together either. There is nothing "safe" about what we do, its just a perception of "safety".
Personally, as cool as it may seem, I think that you have to be just a little nuts to free solo. Dean Potter must have a few screws loose.
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climbingkidd
Jun 20, 2005, 7:57 PM
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By Precautions I mean making sure you can climb it easily without falling off
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imfromwales
Jun 20, 2005, 8:31 PM
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Just go for it !!
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skinner
Jun 21, 2005, 3:43 AM
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Here is an excerpt from:
Rescue Dynamics
“How To Travel at Light Speed”
http://www.rescuedynamics.ca/...es/pdfs/lightspd.pdf
"Soloing is a powerful experience if you are ready for it, but the perils are real. (The next time you go out to solo a route, ask yourself who was tied in with Tobin Sorenson when he died; or John Lauchlan; or Bugs McKeith; or…)"
This sums up soloing for me, because I knew all of these guys.
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mcfoley
Jun 21, 2005, 3:48 AM
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In reply to: I tried some roped solo and once injuried left knee when falled. I gave up since then. haven't free soloed before, don't want to try, there is always something you cannot control, the price is too high.It is a serious game, someone plays it well, and i respect them.
Do you mean self belaying? with a fixed rope? or back cleaning?
What exactly do you define as roped soloing?
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zozo
Jun 21, 2005, 3:48 AM
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In reply to: Just go for it !!
Gripping analysis and faultless logic.... for everyone out there considering free soloing, just go for it.
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mcfoley
Jun 21, 2005, 3:50 AM
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In reply to: By Precautions I mean making sure you can climb it easily without falling off
so you are talking about a class 3 approach... :lol: j/k
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theman
Jun 21, 2005, 4:01 AM
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sex without a condom
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builttospill
Jun 21, 2005, 8:44 AM
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I just climbed a multipitch route here in Utah solo. It was a route up a ~10,200 foot peak. I'm not particularly good at climbing, so don't get me wrong. I probably shouldn't have done this route.
It probably would have been fine, but I got off-route some and it tested my fortitute to say the least. It was a little too close to the edge of my ability levels.
I've done plenty of things in my 20 years of life that could have gotten me killed and usually I came out of them thinking it was great and it made me feel alive. I've been known to be something of a daredevil at times, in some regards. But this didn't leave me feeling that way. I didn't feel more alive. I just felt damn lucky.
I've never hyperventilated before today, but I did after I finally got the gumption to make the crux move about 200 feet off the deck. Again, this was an easy climb by most of your standards, but still. It scared me enough that I was verbally making deals with God, and I nearly cried at the first ledge I could sit on. I would have backed off the crux and descended.....but of course I couldn't. I was alone, no cell phone (no service anyways), out of range of shouting distance to anyone, and no one knew EXACTLY where I was. It could have been worse. I'm still alive.
I will probably still free solo on occasion, routes that are well-worn and well, WELL within my ability levels (i.e. 3 or 4 grades down), and only routes that I know well. Particularly slabby easy routes. But never anything like this.
DMT's posts have been pretty insightful. I have experienced one or two similar things in my very short time climbing. Personally, I think it's a pretty bad gauge of someone's character to lead someone of lesser ability on an alpine climb soloing, and then insist that they can handle it. I'm sure he's not a bad guy, but I'd be pretty upset with him anyway. There's enough internal motivation/seduction/weird desire to solo something, without someone pushing you to do it.
And to the guy who said I only solo when I have to......many would argue that's a terrible reason. I would solo if safety demanded it (weather turning very bad, and I'd be safer free-soloing an easy section than staying on the route in a thunderstorm), but never any other time. Perhaps if I wanted another spiritual and/or life-altering/horrifying experience.
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abisharat
Jun 21, 2005, 6:39 PM
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when I solo, I put on my "don't fall cape" in case I need to fly away
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flipnfall
Jun 21, 2005, 8:21 PM
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In reply to: If there is any doubt in your mind, DO NOT EVER SOLO.
I couldn't agree with a statement more. Now I should add that I have done a lot of soloing in my time and if you're going to do it (and I can't stop you from doing it) I have recommendations in mind BEFORE you go soloing. Don't take my advice as final--I'm not an authority on free soloing and you must climb at your own risk.
DON'T SOLO WITH DOUBTS
It really sucks to have no rope and end up feeling trapped. The last thing you want while soloing is the distracting feeling that you're stuck on something you shouldn't have started. Your climbing becomes inefficient when you experience fear and distraction.
DON'T START ONSITE SOLOING
Onsite soloing should be reserved for people who have first soloed (1) within their ability and (2) a climb they are most comfortable with. If you're going to solo (and I'm not recommending that you do), climb a route you know like the back of your hand. Climb the familiar and easy.
DON'T SOLO BAD ROCK
I would be certain that the rock you're soloing isn't prone to rock falls, dirty holds, wet holds, wasps, etc. Even for "good" rock, I know there has been speculation that Derek Hershey died because a hold was wet. It is just as likely that he died for human error--a slip. Knowing this, you must climb at your own risk.
READ THE RISKS
There are some threads on this topic
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ewtopic.php?p=826151
http://www.rockclimbing.com/topic/14317
REMEMBER: GETTING BUSTED UP HURTS
I've broken ribs and ankles from a fall. I have steel rods in my entire thorasic spine from scoliosis. From a bouldering fall, I had to have a portion of them removed because they became jammed-in-my-spinal-canal rods. My spine, the doctors say, would have suffered worse damage if I hadn't had the rods. You will go through a LOT of pain if you survive a fall.
I hope that helps yo u think through this.
GT
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ontherocks
Jun 21, 2005, 8:52 PM
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Also:
CLIMB BELOW YOUR REDPOINT LEVEL: It's hard to redpoint solo after the first high fall.
LEARN TO DOWNCLIMB: You never know.
DON'T PLAN ON RAPPEL: If you don't carry a rope.
GET A LIFE INSURANCE: Your family will get something out of it.
WRITE YOUR WILL: You don't want to end up in the press like Schiavo.
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timd
Jun 22, 2005, 3:40 AM
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I free-soloed once. After I got out of the hospital and had my casts removed I bought a rope!
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jaybro
May 2, 2007, 6:59 AM
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I agree. Though there ARE routes you have to solo onsight, if your jones is like mine.
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yankeebama
May 2, 2007, 8:04 PM
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I don't know how much I will end up doing. I know I climbed a 5.7R in Red Rocks and was wondering why I had all that heavy equipment and rope weighing me down if it wasn't going to help (one piece of pro in 150feet)....then I had no climbing partner in Scotland so I just soloed something that looked good...mostly 5.7 but a stretch of 5.8. I never planned it....it just happened...even though I swore it would never happen.
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oldsalt
May 2, 2007, 8:39 PM
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In reply to: I tried some roped solo ...
In reply to: What exactly do you define as roped soloing?
I assume that he means what I mean when I use the term...
I fix the rope at the top of a climb and TR up with the rope passing through an ascender attached to my belay loop.
Or...
I fix the rope at the bottom of a climb and lead up, placing pro or clipping bolts as the case may be. For this I use my own device, or I could use a Cinch, Gri-Gri, Soloist, SoloAid, or Silent Partner.
I don't free solo. You may do what pleases you.
[Edited markup tags.]
(This post was edited by oldsalt on May 2, 2007, 8:42 PM)
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live2climb
May 2, 2007, 9:10 PM
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if ya have to ask? You should, not solo!
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