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gochubug
Apr 5, 2005, 4:55 PM
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In reply to: well dude not to be an ass or anything, but you havn't lived my life, you don't know my life, so youdon't understand why i would be willing to give my life to climbing... it's the reason i am still here man... yeah thats why i have that additude twrds climbing
Now having said that, the last part is the key. I know this is going to sound corny and dramatic, but I'm going to say it anyway: if you die soloing, maybe it means nothing to you, but is there no one else who cares about you that your death just might cause a lot of pain and suffering? You might not think so, but you don't know the others in your life any better than you think they know you. I've recently retired from a 35+ year career teaching in high schools and middle schools, and I have known many 15 year old people who thought no one cared about them and they didn't care if they lived or died. Later on they realized differently.
I'm not saying you are one them--as you pointed out, I don't know you. But if you live to grow up, you just might look back on some ideas you have now and think twice about them. I'm not trying to lecture you and if I come across that way, I guess the old teacher mindset is still there. And I'm certainly not trying to tell you how to live or die, just suggesting something to think about.
One last point: if climbing is all that is keeping you alive, it must be really important to you and that is great. Climbing can do that. It's what I live to do also...but I want to live to enjoy it. I really envy you and wish I had as many years of climbing to look forward to as you have.
What I think I'm saying is if you don't care whether or not you die, it's more likely that you will. Live to climb and climb to live! Good Luck.
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saltamonte
Apr 5, 2005, 5:39 PM
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I do it every once in a while on very easy stuff (who knows the exact rating but probably 5.6 maybe 5.7 and below but that almost doesn't seem like climbing. I would compare it to going up the stairs without using the banaster for support and then acting as though you cheated death all though I guess if I was 150 feet up on a sheer 5.7 it might be alittle different. as for the real thing climbing say 5.9 or greater with no pro more than 20 feet off deck it is not really worth it to me. back in highschool i fell almost 30 feet I suppose I lost the feeling of invincability
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lucas_timmer
Apr 5, 2005, 5:54 PM
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Everytime I solo, I trust on Superman to catch me before I deck 8^)
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jorian_nl
Apr 5, 2005, 8:11 PM
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I only solo when I have no choice.
when I don't have my rope with me and i want to climb or when i want to set up a toperope and there are no bolts and it ain't to high.
I don't solo when i don't have to. if there is protection why don't you use it.
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sick_climba
Apr 6, 2005, 12:26 AM
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In reply to: Now having said that, the last part is the key. I know this is going to sound corny and dramatic, but I'm going to say it anyway: if you die soloing, maybe it means nothing to you, but is there no one else who cares about you that your death just might cause a lot of pain and suffering? |
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dingus
Apr 6, 2005, 1:03 AM
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The Seduction:
I learned to climb a lot from myself and some from a host of others. But for alpine climbing I was mentored.
My friend Stu was a hardman. He worked for Royal Robbins guiding and in his gear shop in Modesto back in the day. Watching him climb was a thing to produce awe. He had a calm style that would deceive deceive deceive. Till you realized he was tip toeing up runnout 5.11 or something. Or till you tried to follow him.
He'd done all the standard hardman routes in the Valley by the time I'd hooked up with him; Rostrum, Astroman, Hotline, the standards on the Cookie, etc.
We'd go to the Valley and at the drop of a hat I would find myself following him up routes I was unprepared to lead on my own.
Stu hails from the Chouinard school of light and fast in the mountains and he was a great mentor in that arena. But light and fast... in the mountains... often means doing without a rope.
So we're at the base of some ridge. He'd done it before, twas my first time.
The rope was in the car.
"You'll be fine Dingus!"
400 feet up, committing to middling 5th class moves, following a man I knew, knew in my heart and knew in my bones, could climb to places I could not follow, could calmly crank moves I could not repeat, I realized what it was I was doing...
free soloing on someone else's terms, not my own.
There are some kinds of fear I don't like feeling. I felt them that day.
Free soloing behind your betters on routes you've never laid eyes on can make your weenie hightail it clear to the back of your throat.
I know none of you are stupid enough to allow yourselves top be seduced into such a situation, right?
DMT
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method
Apr 6, 2005, 1:35 AM
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everyone soloes to one degree or another. whether or not its a crimpy 5.whatever or a 4th class scramble without a rope it is indeed soloing. not too long ago i gave a talk to my moms 5th grade class about climbing and understandably they were interested if i ever climb without ropes. of course i wasnt advocating technical climbing without ropes, however i did pose the example of how people of different abilities climb within different comfort zones. ie. the kinds in the class would and could climb a steep slope and feel comfortable and at ease while my mom would feel uncomfortable and insecure. i solo, though it is far below my leading level, others solo close to their leading level...........who cares
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horseonwheels
Apr 6, 2005, 2:07 AM
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In reply to: The Seduction:........................................... DMT
Once again, another great post by dingus.
I think people many times start doing it because they either see other people do it, or their friends encourage them or something. And I would hope that nobody uses the "I'm young and don't have any money" routine. That isn't the right reason to do most anything
First I'd like to say that I have done just enough soloing to know that I don't really like it. I realize that to many here, climbing is THE THING in their life that they care most about, and while I certainly love it, I don't want to die soloing because 1) I couldn't ever climb again, and 2) there are many other things in my life that I care about. Giving all of that up to get the feeling of "freedom" and "being alive" isn't worth it to me. Maybe to others it is.
Also, when I was a teenager I did plenty of stupid things that I could have died doing, and said that "it was fun because it made me feel alive." And I had friends that sat on the top of their car with their legs through the sunroof and drove down the highway doing 50; seriously!! I know I'm probably going to get a lot of shit from climbers that would say I'm an asshole and not a "true" climber for comparing the two, but to everyone else who isn't a climber, there isn't much difference. Both give you much the same feeling, and I understand the difference to climbers, but I would feel pretty stupid dying while taking an extremely unecessary risk.
So I'll stick to my rope, because I'll certainly have fun doing that hopefully for the rest of my life.
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gochubug
Apr 6, 2005, 5:13 AM
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Since I don't solo myself and have no intention of starting, I think I want to explain where some of the attitudes I've expressed in other posts on this thread come from...
I am pretty sure that many of the people on this board are familiar with Doug Robinson’s video Moving Over Stone. If you’re not, then you should check it out. It has some really good stuff in spite of being 20 years old.
Anyway, in it he says that he used to solo and broke his back soloing, that he “got off lightly” and now is “happy to rope up.” In the same video, he asks Peter Croft what he would say to young people who see his free solos in the video and try to emulate what he does. Croft says to never solo for any reason other than just for yourself. If you do it to impress others or to get notoriety, then you should think again. And if fall from 500 feet up while trying to impress someone, as you are spending the last seconds of your life in free fall, “you will have had a terrible joke played on you.”
I read an article many years ago by someone who barely survived a free solo at J-Tree that he did because someone else dared him to do it. Can you think of a worse reason? Anyway at the crux he almost fell, but managed to pull it out at the last second before he was about to peel off. He did an outstanding job of putting into writing the terror he felt up there. I can’t remember where I read it or who wrote it, but I’ll never forget the impression it made on me. :shock:
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boadman
Apr 7, 2005, 3:12 PM
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I know two people that have meat-rocked while free-soloing. One of them is going to be fine, if a little stiff. One of them is paralyzed below the waist. They were both solid climbers at the grade. Both of them will survive, maybe even be stronger people because of their experiences. But it put an enormous drain on their families, financially and emotionally. How would you like to know your son would never make love to a women again? Never run to pick up his son? The decisions you make while climbing affect those you love. I'm not ready for that sort of responsibility.
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clmbr121
Apr 7, 2005, 3:17 PM
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In reply to: When you can do a certain climb with that level of confidence, it's probably safe to solo.
I don't think you can ever use the words "safe" and "solo" in the same sentence. For that matter, "safe" and "climbing" don't go together either. There is nothing "safe" about what we do, its just a perception of "safety".
Personally, as cool as it may seem, I think that you have to be just a little nuts to free solo. Dean Potter must have a few screws loose.
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climbingkidd
Jun 20, 2005, 7:57 PM
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By Precautions I mean making sure you can climb it easily without falling off
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imfromwales
Jun 20, 2005, 8:31 PM
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Just go for it !!
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skinner
Jun 21, 2005, 3:43 AM
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Here is an excerpt from:
Rescue Dynamics
“How To Travel at Light Speed”
http://www.rescuedynamics.ca/...es/pdfs/lightspd.pdf
"Soloing is a powerful experience if you are ready for it, but the perils are real. (The next time you go out to solo a route, ask yourself who was tied in with Tobin Sorenson when he died; or John Lauchlan; or Bugs McKeith; or…)"
This sums up soloing for me, because I knew all of these guys.
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mcfoley
Jun 21, 2005, 3:48 AM
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In reply to: I tried some roped solo and once injuried left knee when falled. I gave up since then. haven't free soloed before, don't want to try, there is always something you cannot control, the price is too high.It is a serious game, someone plays it well, and i respect them.
Do you mean self belaying? with a fixed rope? or back cleaning?
What exactly do you define as roped soloing?
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zozo
Jun 21, 2005, 3:48 AM
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In reply to: Just go for it !!
Gripping analysis and faultless logic.... for everyone out there considering free soloing, just go for it.
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mcfoley
Jun 21, 2005, 3:50 AM
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In reply to: By Precautions I mean making sure you can climb it easily without falling off
so you are talking about a class 3 approach... :lol: j/k
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theman
Jun 21, 2005, 4:01 AM
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sex without a condom
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builttospill
Jun 21, 2005, 8:44 AM
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I just climbed a multipitch route here in Utah solo. It was a route up a ~10,200 foot peak. I'm not particularly good at climbing, so don't get me wrong. I probably shouldn't have done this route.
It probably would have been fine, but I got off-route some and it tested my fortitute to say the least. It was a little too close to the edge of my ability levels.
I've done plenty of things in my 20 years of life that could have gotten me killed and usually I came out of them thinking it was great and it made me feel alive. I've been known to be something of a daredevil at times, in some regards. But this didn't leave me feeling that way. I didn't feel more alive. I just felt damn lucky.
I've never hyperventilated before today, but I did after I finally got the gumption to make the crux move about 200 feet off the deck. Again, this was an easy climb by most of your standards, but still. It scared me enough that I was verbally making deals with God, and I nearly cried at the first ledge I could sit on. I would have backed off the crux and descended.....but of course I couldn't. I was alone, no cell phone (no service anyways), out of range of shouting distance to anyone, and no one knew EXACTLY where I was. It could have been worse. I'm still alive.
I will probably still free solo on occasion, routes that are well-worn and well, WELL within my ability levels (i.e. 3 or 4 grades down), and only routes that I know well. Particularly slabby easy routes. But never anything like this.
DMT's posts have been pretty insightful. I have experienced one or two similar things in my very short time climbing. Personally, I think it's a pretty bad gauge of someone's character to lead someone of lesser ability on an alpine climb soloing, and then insist that they can handle it. I'm sure he's not a bad guy, but I'd be pretty upset with him anyway. There's enough internal motivation/seduction/weird desire to solo something, without someone pushing you to do it.
And to the guy who said I only solo when I have to......many would argue that's a terrible reason. I would solo if safety demanded it (weather turning very bad, and I'd be safer free-soloing an easy section than staying on the route in a thunderstorm), but never any other time. Perhaps if I wanted another spiritual and/or life-altering/horrifying experience.
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abisharat
Jun 21, 2005, 6:39 PM
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when I solo, I put on my "don't fall cape" in case I need to fly away
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flipnfall
Jun 21, 2005, 8:21 PM
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In reply to: If there is any doubt in your mind, DO NOT EVER SOLO.
I couldn't agree with a statement more. Now I should add that I have done a lot of soloing in my time and if you're going to do it (and I can't stop you from doing it) I have recommendations in mind BEFORE you go soloing. Don't take my advice as final--I'm not an authority on free soloing and you must climb at your own risk.
DON'T SOLO WITH DOUBTS
It really sucks to have no rope and end up feeling trapped. The last thing you want while soloing is the distracting feeling that you're stuck on something you shouldn't have started. Your climbing becomes inefficient when you experience fear and distraction.
DON'T START ONSITE SOLOING
Onsite soloing should be reserved for people who have first soloed (1) within their ability and (2) a climb they are most comfortable with. If you're going to solo (and I'm not recommending that you do), climb a route you know like the back of your hand. Climb the familiar and easy.
DON'T SOLO BAD ROCK
I would be certain that the rock you're soloing isn't prone to rock falls, dirty holds, wet holds, wasps, etc. Even for "good" rock, I know there has been speculation that Derek Hershey died because a hold was wet. It is just as likely that he died for human error--a slip. Knowing this, you must climb at your own risk.
READ THE RISKS
There are some threads on this topic
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ewtopic.php?p=826151
http://www.rockclimbing.com/topic/14317
REMEMBER: GETTING BUSTED UP HURTS
I've broken ribs and ankles from a fall. I have steel rods in my entire thorasic spine from scoliosis. From a bouldering fall, I had to have a portion of them removed because they became jammed-in-my-spinal-canal rods. My spine, the doctors say, would have suffered worse damage if I hadn't had the rods. You will go through a LOT of pain if you survive a fall.
I hope that helps yo u think through this.
GT
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ontherocks
Jun 21, 2005, 8:52 PM
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Also:
CLIMB BELOW YOUR REDPOINT LEVEL: It's hard to redpoint solo after the first high fall.
LEARN TO DOWNCLIMB: You never know.
DON'T PLAN ON RAPPEL: If you don't carry a rope.
GET A LIFE INSURANCE: Your family will get something out of it.
WRITE YOUR WILL: You don't want to end up in the press like Schiavo.
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timd
Jun 22, 2005, 3:40 AM
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I free-soloed once. After I got out of the hospital and had my casts removed I bought a rope!
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