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fitzontherocks
May 24, 2005, 3:06 PM
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Mods, can you muzzle this mutt?
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takeme
May 24, 2005, 3:40 PM
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In reply to: In the Ruckman Cave at Rifle, there is a route called pinchfest, the fourth bolt (before the crux) has a tiny little limestone spur about 2.5 inches below it, perfectly placed to abrade the draw. People often use Pinchfest as a summertime fitness/warm down route in the afternoons, so the draws tend to stay up for months at a time. I was belaying a friend on it one afternoon, he took several whippers off of the crux onto the 4rth bolt, but eventually went to the top and lowered down without anything untoward happening. The next guy however, went for it on the onsight, and skipped the 5 (20 foot whipper) he botched the sequence, fell, broke the draw (only about 2 millimeters of nylon was left) and ended up about a foot off of the ground. Pretty close call. In reply to: Wow. I think that is the first time I've heard of the webbing on a draw failing. How old was the draw? Has it been "abused," such as left hanging on a project for a while with no gumbies around to steal it? Is it possible that a different length draw on that bolt would avoid the problem? -Jay
A friend of mine also ripped through a fixed draw while taking a whipper at Rifle, not sure of the route. I think it was due to the draw getting crusty from years of hanging on the route, rather than sawing over an edge.
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jbell2355
May 24, 2005, 8:20 PM
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JSJ42 - You're welcome.
jw11733 - No, I haven't gotten to photograph the bolt yet. I plan to go there tomorrow or Saturday and will definitely post the photos.
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jw11733
May 24, 2005, 8:29 PM
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JBell,
I'm sure you already have, but just in case, be sure to give your rope a good checking over! If that edge sliced your quickdraw...
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fire_eyes
May 24, 2005, 8:37 PM
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This isn't another helmet thread, it's another famous rc.com pissing match...
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corcovado
May 24, 2005, 9:47 PM
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In reply to: This isn't another helmet thread, it's another famous rc.com pissing match...
Actually, I gotta pee. I'll be right back.
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coldclimb
May 24, 2005, 9:59 PM
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Haha this thread is awesome. I'm going to be able to use up all of my trophies and turds for the next few weeks here! :lol:
If there's one thing I've learned in my time online, it's that you NEVER EVER EVER discuss events on rockclimbing.com that happened while you were actually out climbing. :lol:
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majid_sabet
May 25, 2005, 12:44 AM
Post #58 of 188
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That webbing is rated above 1500 lbs per side and it got broken from stitches (they always do in most cases) assuming you are 165 Lbs I think your falling weight was about 3500 Lbs or more to brake that thing, how many seconds you think you were falling before you came to full stop. Also send it to BD for inspection; I am sure they love to see it and Inspect every item involved with this event (Rope, sling, harness etc)
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boulderinemt
May 25, 2005, 12:55 AM
Post #59 of 188
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at first i thought there would be no flame...now we have it all...bolting wars, pissing, helmet speeches...my rc.com addiction is fixed with one thread!
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vegastradguy
May 25, 2005, 1:00 AM
Post #60 of 188
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In reply to: That webbing is rated above 1500 lbs per side and it got broken from stitches (they always do in most cases) assuming you are 165 Lbs I think your falling weight was about 3500 Lbs or more to brake that thing, how many seconds you think you were falling before you came to full stop. Also send it to BD for inspection; I am sure they love to see it and Inspect every item involved with this event (Rope, sling, harness etc)
bd draws, last time i checked, are all rated at 22kn or about 5500lbs.
of course, no matter how strong something is, a sharp edge can slice through it like butter if its under tension as it slides across it.
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majid_sabet
May 25, 2005, 1:09 AM
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22KN on the biner or the webbing ? It cost too much to send the biner for a Xray , it would be interesting to see the xray image
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vegastradguy
May 25, 2005, 1:40 AM
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virtually all sewn slings sold today are rated to 22kn. for a guy who is very passionate about safety, i would have thought you would have already known this. (also, if you bothered to look at the picture, you can see the 22kn label on the sling...)
as for the x-ray--- why would this be interesting to see? it's fairly obvious what happened- the webbing was sliced by a sharp rock. this was not a carabiner failure....
edited to add: the post below has some good points.....hrm.
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alpnclmbr1
May 25, 2005, 1:42 AM
Post #64 of 188
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Did any of you actually read the original post?
In reply to: I was within reach of the second bolt, but got out of sequence and fell. This is normally not a problem on this route, so I had no fear as I was falling. I was quite surprised when I continued all the way down and decked. I landed solidly on one ass cheek and was uninjured for the most part despite falling 15 feet.
First bolt has to be around ten feet up, waist a couple of feet above the bolt. (second bolt at 15ft, 5 bolts total, 50ft formation)
He describes a freefall to the ground.....
What about the part where he weighted the rope and smashed into the rock?
He also left out the part where he smashed into his belayer.
If he had traversed, he would of decked before he weighted the draw.
How can so many people live in such a fantasy world of believing everything you read, even if it doesn't make a bit of sense.
Btw. who would be stupid enough to clip a bolt with a razor sharp edge lined up with the top loop of your draw. (in this fantasy world it is apparently everyone. Doesn't this fantasy world know what a hammer is and what you do with it when you have a sharp edge within three inches of a sport climbing bolt???)
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coldclimb
May 25, 2005, 1:45 AM
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This thread is like Alice in Wonderland. So absolutely illogical and insane that I can't help reading over it just to laugh. :lol: I don't think any good at all can come out of this anymore. It's beyond hope. :lol: :lol:
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pheenixx
May 25, 2005, 1:45 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: 22KN on the biner or the webbing ? It cost too much to send the biner for a Xray , it would be interesting to see the xray image Just to appease your curiosity, I have the exact same draw. The biners say 24kn and the draw says 22. Does this help clear up whatever is happening in this thread? :lol: :lol:
ditto coldclimb -- this is a funny post, I just stopped laughing (10 min).
jbell2355 ~ thanks for attempting to enlighten those of us that are listening. That BD draw looks like mine. :? I'm anxious to see the photo of the route. I never got this was a "helmet post" but SO WHAT if there have been a million of 'em out there -- I still know people that lead without 'em and there are new people crusing into this site at all times. Doesn't hurt to continue mentioning it if it is important, AND IT IS...!!! a-holes. Wear 'em on yer asses, maybe that is where yer brains are -- ahahahaha. nice one.
hahaha "lostdorg" bolting his peck to the side of a burning building...hahahaha ~ what a visual ~ hahahahah !!
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avalon420
May 25, 2005, 1:53 AM
Post #67 of 188
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Im with alpnclimber1 on this. Look at that cut again, it looks as if it was Indeed cut by a RAZOR sharp edge. Ive seen rougher cuts in webbing from a Knife. What the f were you climbing on , obsidian. That other petzl draw looks quite legit, not saying yours is not, bot seriously where is Mt. Obsidian?
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majid_sabet
May 25, 2005, 1:55 AM
Post #68 of 188
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Most biners are made from aluminum alloy or cast alloy (most likely Aviation type)
My major was Aviation in school and we used x-ray to inspect aluminum parts since you can not see or detect hidden cracks within the parts in this case a biner with your 20/20 eye.
virtually all sewn slings sold today are rated to 22kn
my question to you is this ? in which Country USA or EC, UIAA or some no name brand made in china?
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pheenixx
May 25, 2005, 1:57 AM
Post #69 of 188
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Registered: May 22, 2004
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ok - here it goes, this forum could get interesting again....
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pheenixx
May 25, 2005, 2:00 AM
Post #70 of 188
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In reply to: Most biners are made from aluminum alloy or cast alloy (most likely Aviation type) My major was Aviation in school and we used x-ray to inspect aluminum part since you can not see or detect hidden cracks within the parts in this case a biner with your 20/20 eye. virtually all sewn slings sold today are rated to 22kn my question to you is this ? in which Country USA or EC, UIAA or some no name brand made in china?
...and your point is..? I believe this is a Black Diamond QDraw....
your 1st question is what..is UIAA a country or a brandname...?
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majid_sabet
May 25, 2005, 2:02 AM
Post #71 of 188
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You got any cold Corona ?
I have stuff from every where, Europe, USA and so on and every one of them have a different rating, you should say; all BD sewn slings sold today are rated to 22kn
where is my corona ?
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pheenixx
May 25, 2005, 2:04 AM
Post #72 of 188
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Registered: May 22, 2004
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In reply to: You got any cold Corona ?
check out lostdog - I think he's using a 6pack to put out the fire... :lol:
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climbalon
May 25, 2005, 2:05 AM
Post #73 of 188
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In reply to: ...and your point is..? I believe this is a Black Diamond QDraw.... your 1st question is what..is UIAA a country or a brandname...?
you haven't heard of it? it has all the word-class obsidian crags that this guy was obviously climbing when this accident happened
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majid_sabet
May 25, 2005, 2:07 AM
Post #74 of 188
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WELL IF THAT DUDE GIVE ME A CORONA I WILL TELL YOU ABOUT UIAA
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vegastradguy
May 25, 2005, 2:10 AM
Post #75 of 188
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In reply to: Most biners are made from aluminum alloy or cast alloy (most likely Aviation type) My major was Aviation in school and we used x-ray to inspect aluminum parts since you can not see or detect hidden cracks within the parts in this case a biner with your 20/20 eye.
i understand this, but this is not a question of carabiner failure- or did you not notice the shredded webbing?
here, i'll help you out with my quotes:
In reply to: virtually all sewn slings sold today are rated to 22kn In reply to: my question to you is this ? in which Country USA or EC, UIAA or some no name brand made in china?
after much study and pondering, i think you're asking me where these slings are rated and by whom? well....it depends on the company. the companies usually test their own gear. most companies also make sure their gear passes someone's certification test, usually the UIAA or the CE, or both. These tests do cost money, however, so some companies opt to only have one or the other. In Europe, I believe, if you want to sell gear, you have to have a certain certification- i cant remember if its CE or UIAA off the top of my head. In America, there's actually no standard at all, but every company I know of has either CE or UIAA on all their webbing products.
for the record:
my black diamond gear has a CE rating on it.
my petzl gear has a CE and UIAA rating on it.
my mammut gear has a CE, UIAA, and EN rating on it.
all of my slings, from these and other companies, are rated to 22kn.
at any rate, these companies have every interest in making their gear as strong as possible, and it's a good bet that anything they make is probably stronger than its given rating.
oh, and the UIAA is not a country, its the Union Internationale des Associations D'Alpinisme (or The International Mountaineering and Climbing Federation for those who are language impaired).
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