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badsanta
Dec 9, 2007, 1:00 AM
Post #76 of 157
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Hexes are more trustworthy then Tri cams (not TCUs) and maybe more then Aliens.
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snowey
Dec 9, 2007, 3:32 AM
Post #77 of 157
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I have to agree somewhat with Angry, though from a slightly different/more tolerant angle. Rule #1: You do what you want! If you want to drag hexes up all of the routes you do, then go for it. If you want to challenge yourself by pushing the grades Angry-style, go for it. If you want to challenge yourself by climbing with a trimmed down rack on an easier climb, go for it. That being said... I think if you took a straw poll and compared the racks of people climbing say....5.10 and higher you will see that the vast majority of them do not climb with hexes (while doing these climbs). I would also say that the percentage of these people climbing without hexes on harder routes is much larger than the percentage of people climbing without hexes from the overall climbing community (i.e. its not just because people mostly climb on cams). Furthermore, if a good friend of mine who climbs on hexes and tricams came up to me and said "Hey man, I can't break through to a harder grade". I would recommend he dump his gear and get some cams.
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dingus
Dec 9, 2007, 3:35 PM
Post #79 of 157
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larryd wrote: brutusofwyde wrote: ... Spare us your dogma. ... Et tu, Brutus? Actually its called "A2 Brutus?" and is really only C1, V, 5.10. Not a hex was placed. Cheers DMT
(This post was edited by dingus on Dec 9, 2007, 3:47 PM)
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camhead
Dec 9, 2007, 3:42 PM
Post #80 of 157
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angry wrote: camhead wrote: HELLO SOMETIMES I LIKE TO CLIMB HARD BUT I'M NOT VERY GOOD AT IT AND I HAVE HEXES BUT NEVER USE THEM CUZ I AM THE CAMHEAD AND BESIDES ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO LIKE HEXES ARE JUST PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE I'VE CLIMBED FIVE ELEVEN ON JUST PASSIVE AND FIVE EIGHT ON JUST ACTIVE SO WHAT AND ANGRY IS MOSTLY TALK BUT NOT AS MUCH AS DINGUS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whateva! Have you ever even climbed a crack wider than 2"? Sucka. Enjoy Ohio bitch. NO I DO NOT ENJOY SQUEEZE CHIMNEYS BUT I WILL TAKE TEH TAPE MEASURERERER TO WELCOME TO OL KENTUCK AND GET BACK TO YOU ON THAT ONE MKAY.
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scrapedape
Dec 9, 2007, 4:51 PM
Post #81 of 157
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snowey wrote: That being said... I think if you took a straw poll and compared the racks of people climbing say....5.10 and higher you will see that the vast majority of them do not climb with hexes (while doing these climbs). I would also say that the percentage of these people climbing without hexes on harder routes is much larger than the percentage of people climbing without hexes from the overall climbing community (i.e. its not just because people mostly climb on cams). These hex discussions always seem to reach this point: people who climb harder routes generally don't carry hexes.* The implication often seems to be that carrying hexes makes you a gumby, a noob, a weaker climber than the climber carrying cams instead. That replacing your hexes with cams will move you beyond this stage and into the realm of the harder climber. I disagree. While hexes may be more commonly used by climbers at lower grades, this need not be because those climbers are stupid gumbies who don't know better. Perhaps easier routes have a greater number of placements suitable for hexes. Think blockier terrain, irregular cracks, etc. If those are the kind of routes you're ciimbing, then maybe a hex is the right tool for the job, and the real gumby is the guy who climbs those routes without hexes. Sure, as you become a better climber and climb harder routes, you'll find hexes less useful. This is not because of an inherent inferiority of the hex, but rather its relative suitability on the routes you are climbing. But ditching the hexes for cams just because "hard climbers don't carry hexes" is classic gear wankery. *Yes, there are exceptions. A couple have weighed in in this thread. But I said generally.
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paganmonkeyboy
Dec 10, 2007, 12:17 AM
Post #82 of 157
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So - alpine route, fast and light... do you take cams or hexes ?
(This post was edited by paganmonkeyboy on Dec 11, 2007, 1:49 AM)
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trundlebum
Dec 10, 2007, 10:12 AM
Post #83 of 157
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God I feel old:
erick wrote: As i've been reading this post, i've been wondering the same thing. can people actually place an active hex on an 11 or 12? if so, my jaw would drop and i would worship you. Eric ? did you think that there were no 5.11's or .12's before the proliferation of cams ? I use the word proliferation wisely. Sure cams cam out about the time of 5.12 becoming almost common place but dudwe there were 100's and 100's of 5.11's in the country before Jardines first 'friends' appeared. True it is not realistic to protect a consistantly flared or parrallel sided crack exclusivley with hex's just as dragging along a bunch cams along on an irregular crack. But either way, just for fun: If you were to do the 'full on' 70's/80's free climbing history course... You would have scores and scores of heros to worship.
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linvillelover
Dec 10, 2007, 2:50 PM
Post #84 of 157
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i havent placed many cams yet, but i have placed my hexes in the caming mode. my philosophy is to learn the art of passive pro, to better understand the cam placements. i stuck some very solid hexes in place very quickly and easily. they do have their place and function. But they are just so Loud. plus i would rather lose a 12 dollar hex to a deep crack than a 70 dollar cam.
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cracklover
Dec 10, 2007, 4:15 PM
Post #86 of 157
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scrapedape wrote: While hexes may be more commonly used by climbers at lower grades, this need not be because those climbers are stupid gumbies who don't know better. Perhaps easier routes have a greater number of placements suitable for hexes. Think blockier terrain, irregular cracks, etc. If those are the kind of routes you're ciimbing, then maybe a hex is the right tool for the job, and the real gumby is the guy who climbs those routes without hexes. Sure, as you become a better climber and climb harder routes, you'll find hexes less useful. This is not because of an inherent inferiority of the hex, but rather its relative suitability on the routes you are climbing. But ditching the hexes for cams just because "hard climbers don't carry hexes" is classic gear wankery. *Yes, there are exceptions. A couple have weighed in in this thread. But I said generally. Bingo. 10 points for scrapedape. Hexes really offer a much higher advantage on many easy to moderate trad climbs in many areas, due to the blocky, corner-y terrain. All the rest of you are talking about tree trunks and snakes, while scrapedape pegged the elephant.* GO *conversations about style and purposefully old-schooling it notwithstanding
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wanderlustmd
Dec 10, 2007, 4:33 PM
Post #87 of 157
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badsanta wrote: Hexes are more trustworthy then Tri cams (not TCUs) and maybe more then Aliens. Wrong. Everything depends on the placement at hand.
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shimanilami
Dec 10, 2007, 5:35 PM
Post #88 of 157
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badsanta wrote: Hexes are more trustworthy then Tri cams (not TCUs) and maybe more then Aliens. That is a really stupid thing to say.
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dbrayack
Dec 10, 2007, 5:49 PM
Post #89 of 157
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Well, if another wizard or which is sending hexes at you, its best to send them back...hex or be hexed...... Wingardian Leveosa! Ok that was the most retarded post of my life.
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alexnees
Dec 11, 2007, 1:27 AM
Post #91 of 157
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I think the point about hexes being more suited to easier terrain, and therefore that "better" climbers doing harder routes therefore tend to use cams instead, is a very good one. But another, related phenomenon is going on here. Cams are expensive, and so are to some extent restricted to more serious climbers, who are likely to climb higher grades. In other words, if you care enough to drop the money for cams, you probably care enough to train, climb, travel, etc and therefore are climbing above a strictly moderate level. Old traditionalist hex users may jump all over me for that, but see my next point: I also think that a big rack of cams has come to represent a kind of "buy-in" point for trad climbers. Cams are expensive, so if you're just starting out, are young and/or broke, and unsure of your committment to the sport, hexes are attractive because of their price. How many threads have we all seen on this site from beginners wondering whether they can "get by" or "beef up the rack" with hexes? Buying a big rack of cams is a way of announcing to the community (and anyone walking by) that you're a "serious" climber, serious enough to drop several hundred dollars (thousands?!) on fancy gear. Even if YOU don't climb 5.whatever, owning the same gear as the people who DO implies that you are working your way towards that goal, that you've got ambition and dedication. The climbing community definitely respects committment and dedication to the climbing lifestyle, and most people get introduced to climbing in the social atmosphere of a gym or crag where respect matters. So the keen beginner who buys cams over hexes is, in some ways, just announcing his intention not to remain a beginner. Of course, people also hate fakers, hence the usual comments directed at shiny new racks of cams: "Go climbing!" "You're not using that stuff, send it to me..." and so on. Shiny racks give the lie to the whole thing. You bought the rack, but you're not backing up the image with action. So we respect the battered old rack of slung hexes because that person is obviously NOT faking, not buying into marketing, etc. So I guess the worst of all possible worlds would be a shiny new rack of hexes? Ramble over.
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andrewbanandrew
Dec 11, 2007, 6:14 AM
Post #92 of 157
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i suppose you could just use hexes if you like using hexes and shut the fuck up if you don't like using them but that would be too easy
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rockrat_co
Dec 14, 2007, 3:27 AM
Post #93 of 157
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Registered: Sep 26, 2004
Posts: 194
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Hexes are an oddball in my rack. I had a full set when I started leading trad three years ago, sold them about two months after I purchased them. Now, I wish I would have kept them. There are some placements in the Black that just bekon for a hex!
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hopkinsed
Dec 14, 2007, 3:54 AM
Post #94 of 157
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Registered: Apr 24, 2006
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paintrain wrote: Ninjas don't carry hexes. PT Actually, there is a little known new design that is a combo hex and throwing star. If you strap the hex in along your leg under your ninja pants it is quiet and will not bang.
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paintrain
Dec 14, 2007, 6:44 PM
Post #95 of 157
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hopkinsed wrote: paintrain wrote: Ninjas don't carry hexes. PT Actually, there is a little known new design that is a combo hex and throwing star. If you strap the hex in along your leg under your ninja pants it is quiet and will not bang. Is that a Hex in your pants or are you just happy to seem me.
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donald949
Dec 15, 2007, 1:34 AM
Post #96 of 157
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Registered: May 24, 2007
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alexnees wrote: I think the point about hexes being more suited to easier terrain, and therefore that "better" climbers doing harder routes therefore tend to use cams instead, is a very good one. But another, related phenomenon is going on here. Cams are expensive, and so are to some extent restricted to more serious climbers, who are likely to climb higher grades. In other words, if you care enough to drop the money for cams, you probably care enough to train, climb, travel, etc and therefore are climbing above a strictly moderate level. Old traditionalist hex users may jump all over me for that, but see my next point: I also think that a big rack of cams has come to represent a kind of "buy-in" point for trad climbers. Cams are expensive, so if you're just starting out, are young and/or broke, and unsure of your committment to the sport, hexes are attractive because of their price. How many threads have we all seen on this site from beginners wondering whether they can "get by" or "beef up the rack" with hexes? Buying a big rack of cams is a way of announcing to the community (and anyone walking by) that you're a "serious" climber, serious enough to drop several hundred dollars (thousands?!) on fancy gear. Even if YOU don't climb 5.whatever, owning the same gear as the people who DO implies that you are working your way towards that goal, that you've got ambition and dedication. The climbing community definitely respects committment and dedication to the climbing lifestyle, and most people get introduced to climbing in the social atmosphere of a gym or crag where respect matters. So the keen beginner who buys cams over hexes is, in some ways, just announcing his intention not to remain a beginner. Of course, people also hate fakers, hence the usual comments directed at shiny new racks of cams: "Go climbing!" "You're not using that stuff, send it to me..." and so on. Shiny racks give the lie to the whole thing. You bought the rack, but you're not backing up the image with action. So we respect the battered old rack of slung hexes because that person is obviously NOT faking, not buying into marketing, etc. So I guess the worst of all possible worlds would be a shiny new rack of hexes? Ramble over. A couple of good points about hexes working well in more featured cracks which are more moderate routes. But now I'm worried. I have my old well used and scratched Chouinard hexes that I've reslung. Which is safe, but sends mixed messages. I also have my brother's barely used BD hexes that I've reslung with the same cord. I'm thinking I should leave the shiny hexes buried deep in the pack until they get scratched up from traveling around in it. At least the old cord on them was Kevlar. That would have been cool, climbing on shinny Hexes with old stiff cords: "Dude where did you get the new hexes with that old cord." One last point that goes back to a post from last month. The #11 hex is better than any active cam, I don't care what make, what model, period, no argument, for bludgeoning fools who step on your rope. ;Don
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rockhoss
Dec 15, 2007, 2:46 AM
Post #97 of 157
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Registered: Feb 12, 2006
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Hexes are also a lot less advertised, that could explain the 20 to 1 ratio. All the pro manufactures have a vested $interest$ in you overlooking the hex, especially when you are bailing sans nut placements. Hexes are a lot less "sexy" but far more passionate. Instead of grabbing that new extendo-cam, go for hexes size 5 to 11. You will climb more securely and really be able to protect more placements, which is just as good as protecting faster.
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jsunmatthews
Dec 15, 2007, 3:48 AM
Post #98 of 157
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Registered: Nov 18, 2005
Posts: 89
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All I can say is that the feeling of almost animalistic satisfaction I get from sinking a piece of passive gear into a crack that was seemingly made for it belongs in that echelon of other possibly illogical but damn near unmatchable feelings like building the perfect anchor on a tricky pitch or blindly grabbing the perfect hold over a roof. I'm sure for a lot of people it harkens back to "the good old days." For me it's really just another way to learn to know a route. Plus I think we've all at one point or another topped out on a climb and realized we have two pieces left to build an anchor with, one of which in my case is inherently a stray hex and 22 inches of webbing that holds my chalk bag up. =P
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paintrain
Dec 15, 2007, 4:22 AM
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.......As a cookie cutter. He didn't finish his sentence. PT
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