This is a new series on the blog. The hope is to give light to the lives of guides and not just focus on the climbing.

The focus of this series is less about the "how to" of climbing / guiding and more about the personal side instead.

This first post, An Unpleasant Start, is a new series on the ups and downs of being a guide: from networking trips gone wrong, to personal sacrifices (money, relationships, travel, climbing for work's sake vs. having fun), and how a hired trip can start off bad and end up good. It's about being young and learning.

Oh my god.

Jay

I'm continuously impressed with how you can sum up the correct response to posts in so few words.

This first post, An Unpleasant Start...

My life as a guide and just as a climber has been in(*AN) epic failure

nice 5.10a called Life on the Run. The first half was easy, the total climb being only a little over 50 feet tall. Despite the easy first half I crammed the second half with more gear than necessary. I onsighted the climb but I couldn't bring myself to crawl more than a foot above my gear.

Have you never had a bad head day?

Have you never had a bad head day? Hence the comment about mileage. I think for most people their lead head improves over the course of a season. It's hard to do that when you climb the same hundred or so things all season long.

Perhaps you should read the whole thing.

I had a series of setbacks that started to destroy me mentally to the point where I wondered if I would ever go climbing again. I would end up going climbing but it would come at great cost.

Since the tickets in addition to my regular bills exceeded my income by almost double then yeah it was a pretty great cost to me since it made it exceedingly hard to live.

What do you do if a guide shows up at your front door?

























Pay for your pizza.

*face palm*

what no

*plonk*

the guides i know walk up the routes they are guiding in their sneakers, wet, blind folded and then solo them in the dark.

i'd be fucking pissed off if i hired a guide and he was shitting his pants on a 5.8.. screw that.

show some credentials eh?

Jeremiah Meizis with a 20lb pack on the Whitney-Gilman Ridge (II 5.7) in October of 2007 on Cannon Cliff, Franconia Notch State Park, New Hampshire.

We headed up the classic Whitney-Gilman Ridge with relative ease (well, at one point, on the last pitch, Jeremiah had difficulty pulling the final crux with the 20lb pack on his back

[I'm right and you're wrong. I sincerely want your honest feedback. Without it, I have no way to explain to you why you are wrong about me. I'm really not a pretentious, narcissistic n00b. If you would kindly give me some constructive criticism on my deep, meaningful blog, I will happily explain to you why.]

Here's our fearful leader only 2 years ago.. being guided up 5.8 with a 20 fucking pound pack? wtf do you need that weighs 20lbs exactly...
[image]http://www.climbing.com/exclusive/readerblogs/greg_burns/gregburns-cannon-jeremiah-37.jpg[/image]



exactly what weighs 20 lbs.. while being guided up a 5.7 5 pitch route? i mean it's Cannon not Denali

Woohoo! Now lemme go get some popcorn...

Here's our fearful leader only 2 years ago.. being guided up 5.8 with a 20 fucking pound pack? wtf do you need that weighs 20lbs exactly...




exactly what weighs 20 lbs.. while being guided up a 5.7 5 pitch route? i mean it's Cannon not Denali

I think you might want to read that again. You've got some of the facts wrong.

-I wasn't being guided, we swapped leads.
-We were a little gun shy from our last experience.
-It was our second time on the biggest cliff in the northeast.
-We had more than we needed.

It might be helpful if you climbed there before you commented so that way you were speaking from a position of knowledge.

I know this had been brought up before, but I recall years ago when someone else on this site was talking about being a "guide," and jt512 said something to the effect of "Does anyone else remember when being a 'guide' meant that you had to be able to free solo 5.9 in the rain in approach shoes? Now it just refers to anyone who can set up a toprope for a youth group." Still rings true.

High hopes for this thread. And no, I am not going to read the original blorg post.

My new netflix hasn't come in yet, so I'm hoping this can be a backup.

I officially feel like I could solo most 5.10's

One of the climbs I lead in Elevenmile was a nice 5.10a called Life on the Run. The first half was easy, the total climb being only a little over 50 feet tall. Despite the easy first half I crammed the second half with more gear than necessary. I onsighted the climb but I couldn't bring myself to crawl more than a foot above my gear.

Then outside of Leadville on a straight flat portion of road I sped up. I didn't know how fast I was going or what the speed limit was. I was on that fine edge of control that climbers are very familiar with but most people are lucky to have dealt with once in their lives.

I have a terrible habit of putting the pedal to the floor

The true dangers of my life are unfortunately at the hands of others.

At this point the mother stopped and said something so degrading that she might as well of slapped me in the face, "I'm losing confidence, you seemed so confident before, but it doesn't seem like you know where you're going and if you don't know where you are going then how will you know which climbs will be safe." At this point I wished she had slapped me in the face, it would have been easier to maintain a smile. See when you're a guide you must seem invincible, even if you are not. You must have unwavering confidence, gumption, and seemingly boundless reserves of strength and energy. It's a delicate balance. You must seem confident but not brash. Energetic but not manic. While maintaining a firmly dominant upper hand you cannot come off as overbearing. Chiding clients with beta it's hard to not sound condescending and in the end I must maintain an even keel of my temper while promoting their enjoyment and complete safety while taking serious risks to my own health throughout most of the day.

I did not lose my smile though. I calmly explained the many years I had been climbing and the fact that I would not put her daughter in any danger I would not expose myself to. Luckily she didn't know that I am an avid risk taker and that a risk I would take would not be one which she would want her daughter exposed.

The true dangers of my life are unfortunately at the hands of others.

The person who dropped me told me to send him the medical bills and he would pay for them.

Luckily she didn't know that I am an avid risk taker and that a risk I would take would not be one which she would want her daughter exposed.

so exactly in your "many years of(bullshit) experience" you didnt figure out that you didn't need 20 lbs of useless shit to climb 5 pitches in a day? how screwed up is your system that it takes you that long. Climbing steadily and making good decisions keeps you from getting screwed. Perhaps multipitch isn't for you.

I officially feel like I could solo most 5.10's

Jake, for context, which both of us have noted above (and so did my blog post on my recent Cannon trip), we took the extra stuff because we wanted to hike to the summit after climbing, and when we had tried to do that a few weeks before we got caught in a nasty rain storm without extra gear. When we got caught in the rain after climbing Lakeview we only had our climbing gear (and water, food, etc). A few weeks later, when we brought the pack on WG, it was because we didn't want to get blasted by another rain storm and because we knew it was going to be a long day, which it was.

Considering those two routes were both the first time either of us had been on Cannon, I would have expected there to be some sort of adventure. Even for excellent climbers it is a very unpredictable mountain.

Jake, for context, which both of us have noted above (and so did my blog post on my recent Cannon trip), we took the extra stuff because we wanted to hike to the summit after climbing, and when we had tried to do that a few weeks before we got caught in a nasty rain storm without extra gear.

[Oh my god.

Jay

Yeah, that was thought number 1.

Thought number 2 was: Gee, maybe i should start calling myself a guide? I only got lost on my way to the crag once, and that was the place I've never been to ... If Imanage to find a crag that I have been to before, I'm 90% there as far as my guiding credentials go.

It might be helpful if you climbed there before you commented so that way you were speaking from a position of knowledge.

"I'm losing confidence, you seemed so confident before, but it doesn't seem like you know where you're going and if you don't know where you are going then how will you know which climbs will be safe."

This speaks volumes. Rule 1 in guiding is know your area. Have it dialed. I show up as much as an hour before the client arrives to have things ready and setup. I know how to keep the pace going to eliminate possible down time. The worst thing you can do with a client is to not no where you're going or having them sit around while you figure out what to do.

If you are unclear about an area, go out the day before and dial the area in.

please stop taking anyone but Greg out climbing... immediately. you are a danger to yourself and the people who think you have a clue as to what you are doing.

Agreed. This quote made my jaw drop. Jerimiah's attempts to make himself look like a hardcore risk taker makes me sick, and is certainly not someone that I'll ever rope up with.

Yet epics and injuries seem to follow you both everywhere. A pattern like that is not good. A decision process doesn't seem to be working.

Yea.. i won't tie in with either of them.. Getting lost, hurt, benighted, especially on a regular basis does not fit into my partner criteria. And certainly doesn't make you look cool or hardcore. it makes you sound unsafe and stupid

Agreed. This quote made my jaw drop. Jerimiah's attempts to make himself look like a hardcore risk taker makes me sick, and is certainly not someone that I'll ever rope up with.

it's good advertising for the guiding business!!!!!

I remember more than once, Lena.

That incident with the "road" in Muir Valley may have been enough to forever ban you from guiding in America.

If anything, that makes me MORE qualified for guiding, don't you think? I will be able to forget unpleasant things quickly, and thus will be able to maintain a smile for the clients, no matter how many insults they fling at me.

I am a certified TRSM instructor. I am a lead instructor at an outdoor climbing camp. Yesterday it rained, so we were forced inside. We played some sharks and minnows, did an obstacle course, and played a rope swing game called Peanut Butter and Jelly. I happen to kick ass at this game but my team lost for only like the second or third time all summer. It was rough!

Maybe I should start a blog to let people know how hard the "guiding" life is.

Josh

I'm doing an elementary ed program right now. Any lesson planning advice and/or variations on sharks and minnows would be greatly appreciated. I need to keep the little squirts in line come Sept.

I'm not paying $12/hour or anything, though.

I'm doing an elementary ed program right now. Any lesson planning advice and/or variations on sharks and minnows would be greatly appreciated. I need to keep the little squirts in line come Sept.

I'm not paying $12/hour or anything, though.

And I've only had "epics", if that's what you want to call them, on Cannon (two rain storms, one fall, and one long day).

Having about 600 pitches or so spread over ten years under my belt,...

...four really bad days on Cannon really isn't indicative poor decision-making.

Sometimes shit happens,...

You are all lame.

I am guiding a summer student through the intricacies of PCR right now. Now THAT is hardship.

Isn't that 100% of your days on Cannon? And information about how best to deal with Cannon isn't exactly hard to come by, starting with all the good info in the guidebook.

What "extra gear" does one possibly need for the gentle stroll to the summit (where you can take the tram down)?

In actuality it is more then a "gentle stroll" to the summit from the top out of most Cannon routes. Believe it or not you are only about 1/2 way there (from the road) and the rest typically involves considerable bushwacking. Also the tram typically stops running down around 5PM (a fact I learned the hard way 35 years ago after my partner convinced me that it would be easier to walk up and catch a ride down after we did Blockade (anyone remember that dear departed route?)). It also costs $$ which our poverty stricken heros might not have liked. Finally while it makes some sense to head for the summit from the Lakeview end it's pretty silly to do from the Whitney-G end. Although I doubt our well informed protagonists were aware of all this.

In actuality it is more then a "gentle stroll" to the summit from the top out of most Cannon routes. Believe it or not you are only about 1/2 way there (from the road) and the rest typically involves considerable bushwacking.

Also the tram typically stops running down around 5PM (a fact I learned the hard way 35 years ago after my partner convinced me that it would be easier to walk up and catch a ride down after we did Blockade (anyone remember that dear departed route?)).

Weren't you and Jermy the two gumbies that spent 3 days doing a 3 pitch easy aid choss tower in Moab?

Wow. 60 pitches a year. A light day at the Gunks is maybe 6 pitches, so you're suggesting that 10 days a year is a wealth of experience?

Now that's just ridiculous. The Whaaambulance wouldn't be able to help at all. They needed the ROFLcopter

To suggest that we're dangerous is, well, misinformed.

it's good advertising for the someone else's guiding business!!!!!

Fixed that for ya!

alright.. maybe calling them epics is too strong. Gumby mistakes, some preventable, that most folks don't go yelling about from the roof tops.

Maybe. Certainly the first two Cannon debacles were gumby mistakes. We wanted to summit after doing a climb, not by hiking, which is why we made the decisions we made (hiking to the top seemed boring). The third time wasn't a gumby mistake. Jen and I were essentially three pitches behind Tim K (Sr.) when she and I got caught in the rain on the way down. We talked about the weather with Tim for several minutes in the parking lot. We were originally there to do Moby, but based on Tim's advice we chose WG, which is what he was doing. I hardly think that changing plans and discussing plans with someone we both regard as highly competent as gumby or even incompetent.

The fourth time was a fall where I tweaked an ankle that caused us to retreat. I just don't see how my foot slipping is a gumby mistake.

Shouting from the rooftops - that's less shouting and more storytelling. When I write about my trips, its me putting my good and bad experiencs in them. I'd like to think I'm pretty balanced in what I write about.

Having about 600 pitches or so spread over ten years under my belt,...

Wow. 60 pitches a year. A light day at the Gunks is maybe 6 pitches, so you're suggesting that 10 days a year is a wealth of experience?


I'm not jumping on the you guys suck band wagon by any means but i am interested in how you can become a "guide" with only 600 pitches under your belt. That really isn't much for 10 years of climbing.

greg isnt the guide... Jeremiah won't give us any details about his experience or credentials on being a guide.

greg isnt the guide... Jeremiah won't give us any details about his experience or credentials on being a guide.

see the thread brotherhood of the rope. he has no credentials

I said I've only had four "epics" in all of my experience. I also don't think any of those days on Cannon were really epics (getting caught in the rain twice, one fall, one long day).

I've now been on Cannon four times, and can officially state that there is a pattern of some sort of failure.

Jeremiah and I were lucky enough to have a guide and client climbing below us the first time we tackled the great alpine mountain of the northeast. Route finding was an issue that day, and the guide was instrumental in getting us up the proper pitches even though we hadn't hired him.

Jeremiah had forgotten a spare set of clothes (and his sleeping bag, and a jacket, and his sleeping pad, and I accidentally smashed his cellphone charger in the car door earlier in the day, and he accidentally dropped my radio from the bottom of the last pitch before we topped out),

the next time Jeremiah and decided to climb Cannon, we (read: he) were determined to hike to the top come rain or shine. This time we were prepared. We weren't going fast and light this time, not if the weather was going to suddenly rise in vengeance from the west where we could not see it coming (Cannon is east-facing). We packed my bag with our gear, our rope, a stove, some food, and the rain fly and poles off my tent for shelter in case we got dumped on again. This time we were going to wait out any storm and stay dry.

And then it rained harder before the rain turned into a healthy downpour; and the trail became a waterfall, the roots became as slick as ice, the mud as loose as the screws in our brains; and our self-confidence crashed to the point where we thought we were finished, destined to be rescued, freezing, wet, and nearly unconscious until our attitudes reached the depths of darkness that we had never knew existed;

would finally get a chance to tackle Moby Grape. Unfortunately, this also meant that everyone else was thinking the same thing. We were lucky, though, in that we were the fourth party to get to the base of Moby Grape at 11am, with one party already on the second pitch and another party working its way up Reppy's.

I completely, decidedly, unequivocally, and unabashedly hate most vertical cracks. I think I've found one or two cracks that I really like.....
I fell about four times, with one of those times finding me seeking a way up the lichen-covered arrete to the right instead of fighting the impossible 25-foot stretch of crack that remained above me. I found no other route other than going straight up the crack...so I battled to the top completely exhausted and bruised and banged up all over my feet, shins, forearms, and hands. It was so bad that when I got to the top I was barely able to stand because my ankles were rolling from fatigue.

We were not aware of this when we departed for WG. The bushwhacking was pretty much the worst part.

Yea... i liked this bit..

"We both had some trouble at the top." - re: 5.7

"I thought it would be an easy warm up to get started on because it looked that way from the bottom." -re: 5.11b onsite "warm up"

sorry bud.. no one that onsites .11's struggles on 5.7.... anywhere. ever.

Sometimes I'll have trouble on a 5.7 crack. At a certain point in the route I think to myself, "I know I've done this move before; it was just ten seconds ago so how can it possibly be appearing before me again? There's no way!" At that point I become convinced that I'm stuck in some sort of never-ending temporal-spatial loop and abandon all hope.

I just don't climb vertical cracks on principle.. i don't think they are fun to climb at all so i don't do it.

LostinMaine.. i wouldn't consider 20lbs of shit "a small backpack of gear" that's 80% of a week long backpack kit.. there's prepared and there is overkill that could contribute to slowing things down.

yeah, but it is not hard to find evidence between his blog posts and climbing profile.*











*re: Climbing Profile: it's out of date! honest! I climb 5.12 onsight! trad! ground up! second try! You've got to check yerself before you wreck yerself!

If someone really wanted to be a dick, he could forward the blog post to Jer's boss or guiding company.

I wouldn't, but I will say that when I was guiding (though not rock), there was no way in hell I would post stuff like that online for everyone to see. Half facetious quips like the "risk" one are fine with beers around the campfire with friends, but not for the whole world to read and misconstrue.

Have you seen the people on winter day hikes on mt Washington? 20lbs is ultralight.

Does this look like winter... or Mt washington to you?

We packed my bag with our gear, our rope, a stove, some food, and the rain fly and poles off my tent for shelter in case we got dumped on again.

[The fourth time was a fall where I tweaked an ankle that caused us to retreat. I just don't see how my foot slipping is a gumby mistake.

I just don't climb vertical cracks on principle.. i don't think they are fun to climb at all so i don't do it.

LostinMaine.. i wouldn't consider 20lbs of shit "a small backpack of gear" that's 80% of a week long backpack kit.. there's prepared and there is overkill that could contribute to slowing things down.

I wouldn't consider a 20-pound pack filled with tent gear necessary either... that's why I said a small pack with some bail and emergency gear would be more appropriate for that location (which I thought you might agree to). I'm not justifying their specific gear, just throwing in my two pennies on the unpredictable nature of Cannon climbing.

Does this look like winter... or Mt washington to you?

That would be enough reason to pick something different. Climbing under 3 other parties on Cannon? WTF?

Yet you still decided to go on with the route and its 3 other pitches of the same grade. Gee, who could predict an epic in the making? I give you credit for deciding to push on, but sometimes retreat before you get hurt is a more rational decision. Really, if you're thinking of climbing Moby, Reppy's shouldn't be as much of a struggle as you described. It's a good ability gauge.

[Edit for improved clarity]

I was just pointing out that that outfitting style is Tres Chic for the urban climbing crowd in the NE. After all you have to make use of that junk at some point so as not to feel bad about buying it.

Just to show a little empathy I will admit I always get laughed at out here for bringing way too much water. I got used to having NO access to water in California and it doesn't bother me all that much to carry a couple gallons for a weekend. That might put me at +20lbs including climbing gear occasionally. I wouldn't think that would be a problem on the WG though...

Here's what I don't understand about the whole deal.

Why the eff would someone want to be a guide? It sure seems like the quickest possible way to hate climbing and everything about climbing.

If you're fortunate enough to not be a guide, count your blessings and go back to your job. Climbing is meant to be enjoyed on your days off.

I am a water-whore from out west, too. I still find myself bringing between 3 - 4 liters of water for a day of climbing. Then again, the air is thick here, and the heat has this wetness to it that I have yet grown accustomed to. I sweat like crazy regardless of the season.

---

Too much crap in the pack for an alpine ascent. Though, I agree that Canon is the most alpine-like setting in the North East. It is not, however, alpine in my opinion. I carry a super small pack when doing summer alpine stuff. Usually 3ltrs of water, a rain jacket, first aid kit, lunch, and maybe one of my tent groundcloths for emergency shelter. Total weight depends on the water as everything else is super light.

Light is right and speed in an alpine situation, or on an inherently dangerous precipice can make/break a sucessful ascent.

I am a water-whore from out west, too. I still find myself bringing between 3 - 4 liters of water for a day of climbing. Then again, the air is thick here, and the heat has this wetness to it that I have yet grown accustomed to. I sweat like crazy regardless of the season.

---

Too much crap in the pack for an alpine ascent. Though, I agree that Canon is the most alpine-like setting in the North East. It is not, however, alpine in my opinion. I carry a super small pack when doing summer alpine stuff. Usually 3ltrs of water, a rain jacket, first aid kit, lunch, and maybe one of my tent groundcloths for emergency shelter. Total weight depends on the water as everything else is super light.

Light is right and speed in an alpine situation, or on an inherently dangerous precipice can make/break a sucessful ascent.