Hmmm... RRG, methinks.

Hmmm... RRG, methinks.

For 10 minute approaches, unlimited possibilities, dare I throw out Cathedral Ledge in NH?

Hell, I guess Whitehorse now fits the bill as well, and then you have face, cracks, friction, everything.

In terms of concentration and quality I think that the lower town wall at index is the best single crag for 5.11s i've been to. Not so much for any other grade though.

I would say Devils Tower, but then again I'm limited by my geographic location.

So, I have climbed a few areas over a few years, but am curious.

What do you consider the best single crag for these grades?

Please don't answer with an area like "Yosemite," unless you want to be more specific and say "the Cookie." Then you will be wrong, in my opinion, but I would still want to hear from you.

Needles

Not really a single crag, but thanks for playing.

I love it there too.

DT is awesome, but little variety.

Pick almost any of the faces there and it meets your criteria. Slab/knobs/corners/aretes/cracks/face in the 5.10-5.12 range. I think I just drooled on my keyboard a little.....

Pick almost any of the faces there and it meets your criteria. Slab/knobs/corners/aretes/cracks/face in the 5.10-5.12 range. I think I just drooled on my keyboard a little.....

Fair enough, but do any one of those single faces match up to the variety of previously mentioned areas?

The Lower Town Wall at Index, Washington fits the bill for all three!!

Back to the east coast... Crow Hill. It's just single pitch, but the historical perspective is worth it. Veritable land mark climbs for 10's and 11's.

Fair enough, but do any one of those single faces match up to the variety of previously mentioned areas?

Fair enough, but do any one of those single faces match up to the variety of previously mentioned areas?

No shit. The Needles are the #1 crag on my list to get to. Too bad they're so far away.

CHOSS!!!!111!!

Fair enough, but do any one of those single faces match up to the variety of previously mentioned areas?

YES

The Needles are awesome. You couldn't ask for better rock quality either.

It also has a natural noob filter, as routes there don't start at an introductory level, there isn't much bolt clipping to be found, its isolated, and requires an approach

What complete BS! Crow Hill is dope! Not so dope that it should have been mentioned in this tread, but calling it choss is just ridiculous.

I'd also like throw in a vote for the LTW at Index.

-Josh

It's short, dirty, broken up and ledgey. Sure it has history, I love it for that, but come on. Does Crow Hill really compare to "crags" like cathedral, whitehorse, poke-O, the motherlode, LTW at index, T-wall, etc., etc., etc.? I couldn't even gather myself up to make more than 2 trips there when I lived 45 minutes away.

It's a little easy for the grade, but I would say hands down the best 10's trad area is Black Velvet Canyon.

It's short, dirty, broken up and ledgey. Sure it has history, I love it for that, but come on. Does Crow Hill really compare to "crags" like cathedral, whitehorse, poke-O, the motherlode, LTW at index, T-wall, etc., etc., etc.? I couldn't even gather myself up to make more than 2 trips there when I lived 45 minutes away.

CH does have some real quality climbing - don't sell it short. But no, it's not even a NE destination crag, not to mention an international destination. It's kind of in the same class as Precipice Cliffs, in Acadia. Except that Precipice is 10 times better.

I'd put CH squarely in the top 5 Mass crags. But then we all know that's not saying much.

GO

5.10 is THE grade at the Trapps in the Gunks. It's mind boggling how many amazing pitches of 5.10 climbing there is there. Shit, the Mac wall alone has 14 pitches of excellent 5.10a-d. That's only about 120 feet of cliff, (width). That's about .01 percet of the Trapps. Other 5.10 classics include Simple Suff, 10,000, Falled, erect Direction, Doubleissima, Lakatissima, Obstacle Delusion, Feast of Fools, Nurses Aid, Wegetables, Nosedive, retribution, Matinee, P-38, Stirrup Trouble, Welcome to the Gunks, Balrog, Never neverland, Cheap Thrills, Amber waves of Pain, April Showers, Frustration Syndrome, Beatle Brow Bulge....

These are just the multi starred classics mind you, and that is by no means a complete list. I would say confidently that The Trapps has it for 5.10.

RR

I'd put CH squarely in the top 5 Mass crags. But then we all know that's not saying much.

GO

oh yeah!! Elitist douchery FTW!

5.10 is THE grade at the Trapps in the Gunks. It's mind boggling how many amazing pitches of 5.10 climbing there is there. Shit, the Mac wall alone has 14 pitches of excellent 5.10a-d. That's only about 120 feet of cliff, (width). That's about .01 percet of the Trapps. Other 5.10 classics include Simple Suff, 10,000, Falled, erect Direction, Doubleissima, Lakatissima, Obstacle Delusion, Feast of Fools, Nurses Aid, Wegetables, Nosedive, retribution, Matinee, P-38, Stirrup Trouble, Welcome to the Gunks, Balrog, Never neverland, Cheap Thrills, Amber waves of Pain, April Showers, Frustration Syndrome, Beatle Brow Bulge....

These are just the multi starred classics mind you, and that is by no means a complete list. I would say confidently that The Trapps has it for 5.10.

RR

I've lived in NH for almost all my life, and have climbed in Mass exactly twice. Once at Farley and once at Hammond Pond.

I offer no excuse other than the fact that I am one hour's drive, give or take, from Cathedral, Whitehorse, Cannon, P-tuck, Band M, all of the Kanc crags, and Rumney.

I know I may be missing out on some Mass goodness, but really, look at the above named areas and tell me Crow Hill belongs in the conversation.

THe thing about the gunks though is you've got the 5.5 crowd bringing down the coolness.

Yeah, but despite the massive crowds on a nice fall weekend, you'll have more competition for the 10s in BVC than you will for the 10s at the Trapps. Seriously.

GO

I started out by saying it didn't belong in the conversation. 9 time out of 10 I'd just keep driving to Farley. I'm arguing with the assessment that it's choss. I have yet to do a climb there that I wouldn't happily do again. Also, any loose rock there is on the top on the cliff, not on the climbs, and the rock quality is quite good. I fully plan on making a stop there to do Cro-magnon during my 2 week vacation back home.

-Josh

Isn't it uncouth to claim the PT after is was completed? Lame.

Cookie and Spider's Web for density of mega-classics.

I rule out all sport crags for this discussion.

If you go to bigger walls or more loosely defined crags, it gets more confusing to say what is best.

Needles has got to get a mention. Gunks, Seneca East Face, Squamish, Looking Glass, the New (twenty miles of climbing?), Index, Indian Creek, Eldo, Mt. Lemmon. Where do you draw the line?

This is kerrect. As much as I hate to agree with rangerrob, See Eye is wrong!

I really, really like the Gunks, but prefer the variety of a crag like Cathedral, where you can face climb, crack climb, slab climb, corner climb, layback, etc.

And it fit's all three grade requests admirably.

Rangerrob heard about your heinous sport climbing, gear in-situ tactics, consulted the huddled 5.5 ethically pure masses, and it was decided to confiscate your gear and revoke your gunks daypass. The gunks is Trad, bitch!!

THe thing about the gunks though is you've got the 5.5 crowd bringing down the coolness.

Excuse me but the 5.5 crowd is what makes any crag cool.

^^^ CI deflects the subject from his rage-shitz filled pants.

GO

Your profile says you lead 5.1. Just saying.

I've lived in NH for almost all my life, and have climbed in Mass exactly twice. Once at Farley and once at Hammond Pond.

I offer no excuse other than the fact that I am one hour's drive, give or take, from Cathedral, Whitehorse, Cannon, P-tuck, Band M, all of the Kanc crags, and Rumney.

I know I may be missing out on some Mass goodness, but really, look at the above named areas and tell me Crow Hill belongs in the conversation.

Well, you're a donny so I wouldn't expect you to be familiar with the rules guidelines.

Seriously though, four crags keep popping up. The Trapps, Lower Index, Black Velvet Canyon, and Cathedral. so it comes down to that. we can eliminate at least one based on approach...so goodbye BVC. I've never been top Index, so I don't know what the approach is, but it is hard to beat the Trapps for lazy climbing.

I'll cut you.

Out west 5.5 doesn't even exist.

Sure it does. It's just called 5.8.

Well, if we are going to bring grades into this, then I will say that I grew up in NH, and cut my teeth on NH 5.9+'s. This is localese for full on 5.10+.

My first trip to the Valley, my first route was the West Face of Rixon's, and thought it was a stroll. Literally, I thought it was a 5.8.

Until we went to rap off and the rope got hung up twice...

and I always laugh at posts like this. When I moved from the East I was climbing 5.10's and a few .11's at the Gunks and had just spent 2 yrs doing R/X rated climbs there and climbed extensively on the East Coast.

When I moved to San Francisco I spent my first year getting my #ss handed to me on Yosemite and Tuolumne 5.9's.

Sure it does. It's just called 5.8.

Ouch.

Arapiles.

Ding Ding!!!!

Not really. A guy who lives in texas calling west coast 5.8s 5.5s isn't really saying much. I've been to texas and seen their 'climbing.' Not impressed.

And camhead, next time you are in Az drop me a line and I can show you some stuff that makes a lot of the stuff at the Creek look OK.

For 5.10, I'd have to say the Trapps in the Gunks...

Even if they don't, as soon as I see the word "best" in reference to a climbing area I twitch compusively and MUST reply "Needles". Plus they're pretty.........

Josh

Seriously though, four crags keep popping up. The Trapps, Lower Index, Black Velvet Canyon, and Cathedral. so it comes down to that.

DT is awesome, but little variety.

I consider cragging to be quick access with a lot of routes close together. So I propose Horseshoe Canyon Ranch in Arkansas. Probably the most routes available in the smallest physical area. You can walk from one side of the ranch to the other in about 30 minutes while most approaches to single areas only takes about 10 or 15 minutes.
34 5.7
34 5.8
46 5.9
69 5.10
47 5.11
40 5.12