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markmyhsieh
Jul 16, 2010, 4:22 PM
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Hi,
I've worked for Mad Rock for a few years now. I started before the recession and before the start of the Climb X incident. I would even tell you that I was the catalyst for Joe's fall out and Climb X scheme. I am making myself available to questions about anything Mad Rock and whatever I know about Climb X. I'm here not as a PR guy, but a guy who believe that Mad Rock and industry would benifit from transparency and honesty. I will do my best to answer all questions. If I don't know I will say I don't know. If I can't disclose I will say that as well. Ask me anything. About culture, the climb X story, who owns mad rock, how do we start, etc.. anything.
People online may doubt my answers, motives and credibitily. I understand this. This is why I'm posting using my own name, not some fake account. If my word is not truthful then I'm just tarnishing my own reputation.
Also, please don't type useless negative posts. Please explain your thoughts if you must post something negative.
~markmyhsieh
Mad Rock Climbing
Mark@madrockclimbing.com
www.markmyhsieh.com
(This post was edited by markmyhsieh on Jul 16, 2010, 9:51 PM)
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sidepull
Jul 16, 2010, 4:27 PM
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Okay, I'll take you up.
When MadRock first appeared on the scene most people saw them as a derivative of Five Ten. Indeed there were rumors that MadRock either a) stole designs b) had former Five Ten employees providing Five Ten know how c) used the same factories as Five Ten so as to enable bleed over in product d) all of the above.
For full disclosure, I'm not a Five Ten junkie, I'm pretty brand agnostic (indeed my newest favorite shoe is the Mugen Tech). But it seems funny - poetic irony or justic? - that Climb X is obviously ripping off Mad Rock when Mad Rock was born out of a similar set of circumstances.
As stated at the outset, most of this is conjecture, rumor, assumption. Set the record state.
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j_ung
Jul 16, 2010, 4:29 PM
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What exactly was Joe's relationship with Madrock prior to "the incident?" I've heard he had an ownership stake from tons of sources, though I don't think I ever heard that from him. "The incident" makes it seem like this was not actually the case, and that he did not, in fact, have any ownership stake.
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macherry
Jul 16, 2010, 4:29 PM
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markmyhsieh wrote: Hi, I've worked for Mad Rock for a few years now. I started before the recession and before the start of the Climb X incident. I would even tell you that I was the catalyst for Joe's fall out and Climb X scheme. I am making myself available to questions about anything Mad Rock and whatever I know about Climb X. I'm here not as a PR guy, but a guy who believe that Mad Rock and industry would benifit from transparency and honesty. I will do my best to answer all questions. If I don't know I will say I don't know. If I can't disclose I will say that as well. Ask me anything. About culture, the climb X story, who owns mad rock, how do we start, etc.. anything. People online may doubt my answers, motives and credibitily. I understand this. This is why I'm posting using my own name, not some fake account. If my word is not truthful then I'm just tarnishing my own reputation. Also, please don't type useless negative posts. Please explain your feels if you must post something negative. ~markmyhsieh Mad Rock Climbing Mark@madrockclimbing.com www.markmyhsieh.com
good luck.
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Gmburns2000
Jul 16, 2010, 4:30 PM
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Can you give us the Climb X story?
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Gmburns2000
Jul 16, 2010, 4:36 PM
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j_ung wrote: What exactly was Joe's relationship with Madrock prior to "the incident?" I've heard he had an ownership stake from tons of sources, though I don't think I ever heard that from him. "The incident" makes it seem like this was not actually the case, and that he did not, in fact, have any ownership stake.
This seemed to answer those questions, but I'm still curious, too.
http://www.deadpointmag.com/...tion-and-joe-garland
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j_ung
Jul 16, 2010, 4:42 PM
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Yeah, I think maybe I just want to hear it again.
Another question of sorts: here's the 2/5/10 press release from Joe Garland. Will you please comment on the veracity of all of it?
You currently work for Madrock, correct? I'd love it if Joe was on board to also comment, so we could compare both sides in the same space.
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markmyhsieh
Jul 16, 2010, 4:46 PM
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Hi sidepull,
Let me first start off saying that I wasn't there when Mad Rock first started. All I have are a bunch of different stories from the people who were there. Though this is what I believe to be true, I have no proof.
Young, owner of Mad Rock, was a yosemite bum from Korea. He met a girl got married and needed a way to make money to support the family. He started making and selling motorcycle bags. Some how he got into making shoes and then Five Ten contacted him to make climbing shoes. For a long time Young worked with Charles Cole to manufacture and design shoes. (FYI.. most climbing shoes in existance today are designed based off of young's last which is a model of his feet). For whatever the reason Charles Cole decided to go with another manufacturing firm with out notice. Young was left with a factory and a bunch of employees with out jobs. So he decided to start his own brand to sustain his company and employees.
The largest difference between Climb X and Mad Rock is this. Mad Rock created new designs not copies. Second, young owned the factory in China, but was pushed out using illegal methods. I can't go further into this because our lawyers are still going over it. The plan to move to vietnam was long in the works. Mad Rock planned to move the china managment to Vietnam and find jobs for the employees in other near by factories. The rising cost of tariffs and labor kept Mad Rock from offering a good products at a good price.
This is a combination of what I've heard and know. Hopefully it sheds some light.
BTW.. I'm not in anyway saying anything bad about charles cole. I'm sure he had his own reason for switching manufacting company.
(This post was edited by markmyhsieh on Jul 16, 2010, 4:52 PM)
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jt512
Jul 16, 2010, 4:54 PM
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j_ung wrote: Yeah, I think maybe I just want to hear it again. Another question of sorts: here's the 2/5/10 press release from Joe Garland. Will you please comment on the veracity of all of it? You currently work for Madrock, correct? I'd love it if Joe was on board to also comment, so we could compare both sides in the same space.
Where?
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markmyhsieh
Jul 16, 2010, 4:57 PM
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Joe was a contracted sales manager when I was hired. Nothing More. When I was first hired I thought that he had a stake in Mad Rock because he would often say that, but as I worked and learned more I began to learn that it was just talk. He has no ownership in the company. He ran the sales team which composed of 4 people. He often credits himself the many of Mad Rock designs, but I don't believe much of it is true.
I know that the skull shoes called the joker was his. Mad rock standard belay device may be his. The in your face price advertising is his.
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shoo
Jul 16, 2010, 5:05 PM
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For what it's worth, I have e-mailed Mark at Mad Rock to confirm his identity here on RC.com. Never know these days on the internets. . .
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markmyhsieh
Jul 16, 2010, 5:15 PM
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Climb X...
Most of the employees at Mad Rock really hated Joe, but tt all started when Joe first fired me. He asked me into his office and said something along the lines of "its not working out, please don't come back tomorrow". That was it, short and simple. I believe he let me go because I started to questsioning his decisions which I felt was not healthy for Mad Rock. I also spilled to the the owner about things I believe Joe has done wrong both decisison and ethically. When I got fired the other employees got really upset and finally started speaking up. The owner was overseas sourcing materials when this happened. When he came back I explained what had happened and he rehired me.
I think this really pissed off Joe. Employees was no longer afraid of standing up to Joe when they felt things were wrong. Basically his power and authority was diminished. I believe Joe sensed it and started schemeing.
Joe knew that Mad Rock planned on moving its factory so he worked with the managers to take the ownership of the factory away from young. He was successful. Joe's orginal plan is to destroy Mad Rock by taking away its factory and saying that its now producing under a different name. However, he didn't know that owner was already setting up factory in Vietnam. So when it happened Mad Rock scrambled to transfer production. The scramble was actually great for us. So now Climb X is selling our shoes with their name. The designs are obvious patent infringements so our laywers are working on it. Joe has been sending emails out to all our distributors, dealers, and athletes saying that we are out of money, we are closing down.. etc etc.. these are false. We are here and here to stay. The sales/marketing staff now has more freedom. We are taking this opportunity to rebrand our image that is why we got a new website that isn't so focused on selling to the retail market.
~markmyhsieh
(This post was edited by markmyhsieh on Jul 16, 2010, 5:22 PM)
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johnwesely
Jul 16, 2010, 5:19 PM
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Is the resole service still down?
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shoo
Jul 16, 2010, 5:23 PM
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shoo wrote: For what it's worth, I have e-mailed Mark at Mad Rock to confirm his identity here on RC.com. Never know these days on the internets. . .
Identity confirmed.
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cracklover
Jul 16, 2010, 5:27 PM
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Mark, no questions right now, but thanks for making yourself available like this.
GO
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Gmburns2000
Jul 16, 2010, 5:27 PM
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markmyhsieh wrote: Climb X... Most of the employees at Mad Rock really hated Joe, but tt all started when Joe first fired me. He asked me into his office and said something along the lines of "its not working out, please don't come back tomorrow". That was it, short and simple. I believe he let me go because I started to questsioning his decisions which I felt was not healthy for Mad Rock. I also spilled to the the owner about things I believe Joe has done wrong both decisison and ethically. When I got fired the other employees got really upset and finally started speaking up. The owner was overseas sourcing materials when this happened. When he came back I explained what had happened and he rehired me. I think this really pissed off Joe. Employees was no longer afraid of standing up to Joe when they felt things were wrong. Basically his power and authority was diminished. I believe Joe sensed it and started schemeing. Joe knew that Mad Rock planned on moving its factory so he worked with the managers to take the ownership of the factory away from young. He was successful. Joe's orginal plan is to destroy Mad Rock by taking away its factory and saying that its now producing under a different name. However, he didn't know that owner was already setting up factory in Vietnam. So when it happened Mad Rock scrambled to transfer production. The scramble was actually great for us. So now Climb X is selling our shoes with their name. The designs are obvious patent infringements so our laywers are working on it. Joe has been sending emails out to all our distributors, dealers, and athletes saying that we are out of money, we are closing down.. etc etc.. these are false. We are here and here to stay. The sales/marketing staff now has more freedom. We are taking this opportunity to rebrand our image that is why we got a new website that isn't so focused on selling to the retail market. ~markmyhsieh
Thanks Mark. Just for clarification: Joe started Climb X and is using the former Chinese factory that Mad Rock used to use, and as a result Climb X is essentially making what really amount to Mad Rock shoes under a different name?
General comment to all (i.e. not pointed at Mark): I agree, it would be nice to hear the other side. I wonder if we'll get that.
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markmyhsieh
Jul 16, 2010, 5:33 PM
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In reply to: Another question of sorts: here's the 2/5/10 press release from Joe Garland. Will you please comment on the veracity of all of it? You currently work for Madrock, correct? I'd love it if Joe was on board to also comment, so we could compare both sides in the same space.
The press release from Joe Garland is a mix of truths and lies. Which is very effective. a link to snews's article that touches on most of it.
https://www.snewsnet.com/SNEWSFreebie/MadRockFriend.html
same article Another link here
http://vikkiweldon.com/climbing/some-clarification-on-the-shoe-drama/
(This post was edited by markmyhsieh on Jul 16, 2010, 5:48 PM)
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markmyhsieh
Jul 16, 2010, 5:36 PM
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Resole is still down. Arturo our designer and resoler is busy designing patterns for 2011. However, email me at Mark@madrockclimbing.com and i'll see what I can do.
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markmyhsieh
Jul 16, 2010, 5:38 PM
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In reply to: Thanks Mark. Just for clarification: Joe started Climb X and is using the former Chinese factory that Mad Rock used to use, and as a result Climb X is essentially making what really amount to Mad Rock shoes under a different name? General comment to all (i.e. not pointed at Mark): I agree, it would be nice to hear the other side. I wonder if we'll get that.
Yup thats what i'm saying.
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markmyhsieh
Jul 16, 2010, 5:40 PM
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I know I started this thread with Mad Rock and Climb X, but the idea is to give Mad Rock transparency. If you have questsion regarding anything else like size and company culture, process of shoe design etc. I'm here.
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johnwesely
Jul 16, 2010, 5:47 PM
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markmyhsieh wrote: I know I started this thread with Mad Rock and Climb X, but the idea is to give Mad Rock transparency. If you have questsion regarding anything else like size and company culture, process of shoe design etc. I'm here.
You said the shoe with the skulls was Joe's idea. Did anyone point out how cheesy they were?
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markmyhsieh
Jul 16, 2010, 5:49 PM
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In reply to: You said the shoe with the skulls was Joe's idea. Did anyone point out how cheesy they were?
Again and again, but he was manager with final authority.
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johnwesely
Jul 16, 2010, 6:00 PM
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markmyhsieh wrote: In reply to: You said the shoe with the skulls was Joe's idea. Did anyone point out how cheesy they were? Again and again, but he was manager with final authority.
You guys should have collaborated with Ed Hardy. That would have been even cooler.
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healyje
Jul 16, 2010, 6:10 PM
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markmyhsieh wrote: Mad Rock created new designs not copies.
You had me until you said this. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Let's at least be honest and acknowledge MR was a virtual budget ripoff machine where no design or design element was sacrosanct. Is that to say no innovation happened? No, but the mainstay of the business was always pretty damn clear to anyone who's been climbing for more than six months.
Edit: The new MR and CX should both aspire to better things.
(This post was edited by healyje on Jul 16, 2010, 6:12 PM)
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airscape
Jul 16, 2010, 6:11 PM
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johnwesely wrote: markmyhsieh wrote: In reply to: You said the shoe with the skulls was Joe's idea. Did anyone point out how cheesy they were? Again and again, but he was manager with final authority. You guys should have collaborated with Ed Hardy. That would have been even cooler.
X Hardy?
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