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JokerRick
Dec 29, 2010, 12:21 AM
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oldsalt wrote: Looking back, circumstances have dictated that I have only done solo leads since then.
I know I'm new, but I've been reading a lot trying to learn all the right vocabulary. I still don't understand what this means, "solo leads."
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oldsalt
Dec 29, 2010, 12:53 AM
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A solo lead is when you anchor your rope at ground level and belay yourself as you lead a route. It is not a routine part of climbing and never recommended. Do not assume that soloing is in any way a next step in the climbing skills progression.
Also, this is different from "free soloing," which means climbing without a rope.
In the hierarchy of insanity, roped soloing is crazy, but free soloing is suicidal. Most people who free solo don't spray about it...it is a private thing. Ours not to judge.
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jt512
Dec 29, 2010, 8:26 AM
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oldsalt wrote: A solo lead is when you anchor your rope at ground level and belay yourself as you lead a route.
Actually, what you are referring to is called a "roped solo."
In reply to: In the hierarchy of insanity, roped soloing is crazy . . .
No, it isn't. In terms of risk, it's basically like ordinary leading, except that in order to compensate for the extra effort involved in self-belaying you have to reduce the difficulty level of your climbs substantially—which makes it kind of pointless, IMHO.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Dec 29, 2010, 8:30 AM)
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bearbreeder
Dec 29, 2010, 12:58 PM
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jt512 wrote: which makes it kind of pointless, IMHO. Jay
tell that to colin haley when he did the first solo ascent of Cerro Standhardt
I left the Niponino bivouac very early Saturday morning, and at four am arrived at the Standhardt-Bifida col, where the Exocet route (500m, WI5, 5.9) begins. In the dark I self-belayed the slabby mixed terrain of the first pitch, and then in the morning sunlight soloed across the large ramp system that rises across Standhardt's east face.
After traversing the ramps, the defining feature of Exocet rises straight above: the vertical and largely-blank granite wall is split by a deep chimney, choked with ice in the back. The chimney is four pitches long, with difficulties of about WI4, WI5, WI5, and WI4. The first two pitches of the chimney I free-soloed, hauling my pack up behind me. I climbed quite slowly, making sure that every tool placement was absolutely bomber. Although the third pitch is no harder than the second (and in fact a bit easier I think), I chose to self-belay it, as I could feel my arms getting tired. The fourth pitch I free-soloed except for a ten-meter step that I self-belayed with a back-loop.
Above the chimney is another slabby mixed pitch which I self-belayed, and I then continued up to summit mushroom, which goes with an easy and straightforward pitch of AI3. I reached the summit at 4pm, twelve hours after beginning, and began my descent. The descent of Exocet is one of the easiest and most straightforward in Patagonia because it is almost entirely on ice and clean slabs, so there is very little for the rappel ropes to catch on. I stumbled back to my tent at Niponino, arriving very tired shortly after dark, and the weather window broke down as I slept through the night. On Sunday the rain didn't let up for a single minute on the long hike from Niponino back to town.
This was the first solo ascent of Cerro Standhardt. In 1994, Tommy Bonapace soloed most of the Exocet route, but was forced to turn back at the top of the ice chimney because of a bad storm.
http://colinhaley.blogspot.com/2010/11/exocet-solo.html
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michael1245
Dec 29, 2010, 2:16 PM
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oldsalt wrote: jolery wrote: Oh yeah, I started climbing 8 years ago at age 53.] you're awesome
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oldsalt
Dec 29, 2010, 3:07 PM
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jt512 wrote: oldsalt wrote: A solo lead is when you anchor your rope at ground level and belay yourself as you lead a route. Actually, what you are referring to is called a "roped solo." In reply to: In the hierarchy of insanity, roped soloing is crazy . . . No, it isn't. In terms of risk, it's basically like ordinary leading, except that in order to compensate for the extra effort involved in self-belaying you have to reduce the difficulty level of your climbs substantially—which makes it kind of pointless, IMHO. Jay
I feel odd challenging one of your posts, Jay, but...
Roped soloing is more generic than just leading. It is a class of activities that distinguishes (or un-distinguishes depending on your point of view) solo TR where you belay yourself up a fixed rope from solo leading where you belay yourself from the ground up while placing gear or clipping bolts.
Solo TR requires nothing more than an ascender, while solo leading requires a suitable device that will pass rope or arrest a fall as needed.
Either method satisfies the need to climb when you must go alone. The risks involved are quite different, and they are magnified by the absence of outside assistance when you are alone on the rock.
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jt512
Dec 29, 2010, 8:37 PM
Post #32 of 65
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oldsalt wrote: jt512 wrote: oldsalt wrote: A solo lead is when you anchor your rope at ground level and belay yourself as you lead a route. Actually, what you are referring to is called a "roped solo." In reply to: In the hierarchy of insanity, roped soloing is crazy . . . No, it isn't. In terms of risk, it's basically like ordinary leading, except that in order to compensate for the extra effort involved in self-belaying you have to reduce the difficulty level of your climbs substantially—which makes it kind of pointless, IMHO. Jay I feel odd challenging one of your posts, Jay, but... Roped soloing is more generic than just leading.
Maybe in Florida. I've never heard anyone refer to "toprope soloing" as anything other than just that, nor have I ever heard anyone use the term "roped solo" to mean anything other than leading.
Jay
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aaronh
Dec 29, 2010, 8:58 PM
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Read the Rock Warriors way
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theapollo
Jan 4, 2011, 6:07 PM
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socalclimber wrote: Having your own personal gear and a rope can get you a long ways in the beginning. DON'T SPEND $200 plus for a rope yet. There are a number of good quality entry level ropes that start around $150. New Ropes + New Climber = TRASHED ROPE It's just how the game goes.
There are good entry level ropes for way cheaper than 150 bucks. I got my first rope for 89 dollars at a big name retail store outlet (Example would be Altrec Outlet, REI outlet, whatever the equivalent of EMS's outlet is, etc.). It was a 50m, but for a beginner 50m is still a pretty good starting point
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jt512
Jan 4, 2011, 6:18 PM
Post #35 of 65
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theapollo wrote: socalclimber wrote: Having your own personal gear and a rope can get you a long ways in the beginning. DON'T SPEND $200 plus for a rope yet. There are a number of good quality entry level ropes that start around $150. New Ropes + New Climber = TRASHED ROPE It's just how the game goes. There are good entry level ropes for way cheaper than 150 bucks. I got my first rope for 89 dollars at a big name retail store outlet (Example would be Altrec Outlet, REI outlet, whatever the equivalent of EMS's outlet is, etc.).
What constitutes an "entry level rope"?
In reply to: It was a 50m, but for a beginner 50m is still a pretty good starting point
Not if the beginner's local crags are more than 25 m high.
Jay
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theapollo
Jan 4, 2011, 6:23 PM
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jt512 wrote: theapollo wrote: socalclimber wrote: Having your own personal gear and a rope can get you a long ways in the beginning. DON'T SPEND $200 plus for a rope yet. There are a number of good quality entry level ropes that start around $150. New Ropes + New Climber = TRASHED ROPE It's just how the game goes. There are good entry level ropes for way cheaper than 150 bucks. I got my first rope for 89 dollars at a big name retail store outlet (Example would be Altrec Outlet, REI outlet, whatever the equivalent of EMS's outlet is, etc.). What constitutes an "entry level rope"? In reply to: It was a 50m, but for a beginner 50m is still a pretty good starting point Not if the beginner's local crags are more than 25 m high. Jay
Cheap and at least semi durable. It's like beginner shoes, it's gonna wear out quickly so just get it as cheap as possible (keeping safety in mind of course) until the person knows what they're doing
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boymeetsrock
Jan 4, 2011, 6:39 PM
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I'll second Spikeddem and Socialclimber. I've seen plenty of people drop hundreds of dollars because they are SO INTO climbing, and then never make it out again after the first summer.
Take your time. Enjoy the new hobby. Learn the ropes and gear. Learn the different styles of climbing. Read, read, read.
Once you have an understanding of the gear and styles and basic techniques, you will know what you need to buy to go in the direction that suits you.
As for the fear, that is a battle we all face on our own. In time you will learn to process the fear or not. If you can't process the fear then you will probably get over climbing pretty quickly. If you enjoy the fear side of the game to some extent you may become hooked on climbing for life. All in good time. Two weeks is but a flash in the pan.
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boymeetsrock
Jan 4, 2011, 6:45 PM
Post #38 of 65
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jt512 wrote: oldsalt wrote: In the hierarchy of insanity, roped soloing is crazy . . . No, it isn't. In terms of risk, it's basically like ordinary leading, except that in order to compensate for the extra effort involved in self-belaying you have to reduce the difficulty level of your climbs substantially—which makes it kind of pointless, IMHO. Jay
Both of these statements are incorrect.
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socalclimber
Jan 5, 2011, 2:32 AM
Post #39 of 65
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theapollo wrote: socalclimber wrote: Having your own personal gear and a rope can get you a long ways in the beginning. DON'T SPEND $200 plus for a rope yet. There are a number of good quality entry level ropes that start around $150. New Ropes + New Climber = TRASHED ROPE It's just how the game goes. There are good entry level ropes for way cheaper than 150 bucks. I got my first rope for 89 dollars at a big name retail store outlet (Example would be Altrec Outlet, REI outlet, whatever the equivalent of EMS's outlet is, etc.). It was a 50m, but for a beginner 50m is still a pretty good starting point
I have no problems with that. My whole point is don't spend a ton of money on really good ropes for a while. They will just get trashed.
Entry level ropes, these are just ropes that are not super expensive and not as durable. I think the proper term is price point ropes. They are just fine, especially for beginners. Nobody is putting out ropes that are shit just because they are "cheap" by comparison to the top end.
(This post was edited by socalclimber on Jan 5, 2011, 2:36 AM)
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curt
Jan 5, 2011, 5:16 AM
Post #40 of 65
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jt512 wrote: theapollo wrote: socalclimber wrote: Having your own personal gear and a rope can get you a long ways in the beginning. DON'T SPEND $200 plus for a rope yet. There are a number of good quality entry level ropes that start around $150. New Ropes + New Climber = TRASHED ROPE It's just how the game goes. There are good entry level ropes for way cheaper than 150 bucks. I got my first rope for 89 dollars at a big name retail store outlet (Example would be Altrec Outlet, REI outlet, whatever the equivalent of EMS's outlet is, etc.). What constitutes an "entry level rope"? In reply to: It was a 50m, but for a beginner 50m is still a pretty good starting point Not if the beginner's local crags are more than 25 m high. Jay
Well, that's strange. In my first year of climbing I somehow managed to wander up quite a few 300 foot high climbs and somehow get back down with a single 50 meter rope. 
Curt
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bearbreeder
Jan 5, 2011, 5:25 AM
Post #41 of 65
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boymeetsrock wrote: I'll second Spikeddem and Socialclimber. I've seen plenty of people drop hundreds of dollars because they are SO INTO climbing, and then never make it out again after the first summer. Take your time. Enjoy the new hobby. Learn the ropes and gear. Learn the different styles of climbing. Read, read, read. Once you have an understanding of the gear and styles and basic techniques, you will know what you need to buy to go in the direction that suits you.
thirded ... a cheap 60m 10-10.5mm rope will last you yr first year or two .. yr likely going to use it top ropping quite a bit, and falling on sport leads ... no need for dry ropes when starting out ... you can find ropes for close to $100 if you shop around
i see people with expensive dry mammuts top ropping all the time ...
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milesenoell
Jan 5, 2011, 6:01 AM
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A friend of mine who is very afraid of heights has recently decided he's going to give climbing a try. Watching him climb is hilarious because on the technical stuff he forgets about the height, but then he'll get to a hands free ledge and start to sketch out.
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milesenoell
Jan 5, 2011, 5:16 PM
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JokerRick wrote: milesenoell wrote: A friend of mine who is very afraid of heights has recently decided he's going to give climbing a try. Watching him climb is hilarious because on the technical stuff he forgets about the height, but then he'll get to a hands free ledge and start to sketch out. This is my concern precisely. I can climb a 40' wall at the gym because, heck, I'm just staring at the wall and the holds. Sure I look down at my feet, but my focus never really leaves my vicinity. I'll just have to see what it's like when I get there. It will surely be some time before I get to anything big outside anyway. I've resisted buying any additional equipment except a couple of cordeletttes and carabiners to learn knot/hitch tying with. Heck even if I end up not getting into real rock climbing I can always use those to tie stuff down on my roof-rack. 
Knots are fun, but I never seem to use more than a few tried and true ones.
Edited to add:...I never learned a trucker's hitch until I climbed, but that is a great knot to know despite the fact that I'll never use it when climbing.
(This post was edited by milesenoell on Jan 5, 2011, 9:48 PM)
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Gmburns2000
Jan 5, 2011, 5:37 PM
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milesenoell wrote: A friend of mine who is very afraid of heights has recently decided he's going to give climbing a try. Watching him climb is hilarious because on the technical stuff he forgets about the height, but then he'll get to a hands free ledge and start to sketch out.
I think there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for that: he's more focused on the technical stuff and forgets to think about how high he is. When he gets to easier terrain, he has both the time and mental capacity to then look around and get sketched out.
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milesenoell
Jan 5, 2011, 6:31 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: milesenoell wrote: A friend of mine who is very afraid of heights has recently decided he's going to give climbing a try. Watching him climb is hilarious because on the technical stuff he forgets about the height, but then he'll get to a hands free ledge and start to sketch out. I think there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for that: he's more focused on the technical stuff and forgets to think about how high he is. When he gets to easier terrain, he has both the time and mental capacity to then look around and get sketched out.
I had hoped my writing was clear enough that that had been implied.
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milesenoell
Jan 5, 2011, 6:38 PM
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JokerRick wrote: milesenoell wrote: A friend of mine who is very afraid of heights has recently decided he's going to give climbing a try. Watching him climb is hilarious because on the technical stuff he forgets about the height, but then he'll get to a hands free ledge and start to sketch out. This is my concern precisely. I can climb a 40' wall at the gym because, heck, I'm just staring at the wall and the holds. Sure I look down at my feet, but my focus never really leaves my vicinity. I'll just have to see what it's like when I get there. It will surely be some time before I get to anything big outside anyway. I've resisted buying any additional equipment except a couple of cordeletttes and carabiners to learn knot/hitch tying with. Heck even if I end up not getting into real rock climbing I can always use those to tie stuff down on my roof-rack.
In regards the section I bolded, I think this is one of the most common ways that climbers manage fear while still tuning into the climb. It's really kind of like a zen exercise to just be focused on that which you can act upon. The threats may be real, but the important part for you is to focus on just the parts that you have control over.
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Gmburns2000
Jan 5, 2011, 7:03 PM
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milesenoell wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: milesenoell wrote: A friend of mine who is very afraid of heights has recently decided he's going to give climbing a try. Watching him climb is hilarious because on the technical stuff he forgets about the height, but then he'll get to a hands free ledge and start to sketch out. I think there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for that: he's more focused on the technical stuff and forgets to think about how high he is. When he gets to easier terrain, he has both the time and mental capacity to then look around and get sketched out. I had hoped my writing was clear enough that that had been implied.
sorry! I think it was the word "hilarious" that threw me off, because that is not only what tends to happen to me, but it is also part of the reason I climb. So I find that to be less funny and more therapeutic, I guess.
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milesenoell
Jan 5, 2011, 7:12 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: milesenoell wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: milesenoell wrote: A friend of mine who is very afraid of heights has recently decided he's going to give climbing a try. Watching him climb is hilarious because on the technical stuff he forgets about the height, but then he'll get to a hands free ledge and start to sketch out. I think there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for that: he's more focused on the technical stuff and forgets to think about how high he is. When he gets to easier terrain, he has both the time and mental capacity to then look around and get sketched out. I had hoped my writing was clear enough that that had been implied. sorry! I think it was the word "hilarious" that threw me off, because that is not only what tends to happen to me, but it is also part of the reason I climb. So I find that to be less funny and more therapeutic, I guess.
Sorry if I sounded snippy.
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Gmburns2000
Jan 5, 2011, 7:18 PM
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milesenoell wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: milesenoell wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: milesenoell wrote: A friend of mine who is very afraid of heights has recently decided he's going to give climbing a try. Watching him climb is hilarious because on the technical stuff he forgets about the height, but then he'll get to a hands free ledge and start to sketch out. I think there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for that: he's more focused on the technical stuff and forgets to think about how high he is. When he gets to easier terrain, he has both the time and mental capacity to then look around and get sketched out. I had hoped my writing was clear enough that that had been implied. sorry! I think it was the word "hilarious" that threw me off, because that is not only what tends to happen to me, but it is also part of the reason I climb. So I find that to be less funny and more therapeutic, I guess. Sorry if I sounded snippy.
esta bien
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