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ckirkwood9
Feb 24, 2011, 4:14 PM
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Hi all,
Backcountry has the Men's Metolius Safe Tech Deluxe IMPROVED Harness on sale for $76.
I've had my eye on the safe-tech harness for a while, and am interested in purchasing...
Anyone have a review? Opinions?
One thing that concerns me a little is where the gear loops are placed. It LOOKS like one loop is sewn to the bottom of the waist belt, the other is sewn to the top of the waist belt right above it.... i.e. the upper one sits on top of the lower one... i imagine racking gear would be difficult on the lower loop if you have gear on the upper loop BUT i can't see the harness from a side view - no web sites that i've found have a side-view of the harness.
Anyone have any experience with this IMPROVED harness?
http://www.backcountry.com/...amp;mr:referralID=NA
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alexnees
Feb 24, 2011, 4:25 PM
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The loops are offset back to front, as one would imagine, and are not directly above each other.
No personal experience with this harness. I can only recommend this review
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ckirkwood9
Feb 24, 2011, 4:33 PM
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that review is for the original 'safe tech', not the
'safe tech IMPROVED'
anyone else?
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ckirkwood9
Feb 24, 2011, 4:34 PM
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the original:
the 'improved'
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taydude
Feb 24, 2011, 5:01 PM
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Honestly, go get a better harness. This harness is purely designed for inexperienced people that don't understand redundancy. Why would you ever double up the belay loop? It's already the strongest part of the harness. It's also stupid to make almost every part of the harness hold body weight. People should just learn how to use their harness correctly. What happens when you move to a normal harness and you forget you can't belay off your gear loop anymore?
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ckirkwood9
Feb 24, 2011, 5:10 PM
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i think it just looks super comfortable, esp for bigger walls. I currently climb with a Black Diamond Blizzard harness (which i love), but it sometimes gets a little uncomfortable on hanging belays.
I'm really looking for someone who has actual experience with the harness rather than opinions on the design.
How well does it rack gear, does the placement of the gear loops create a problem. How is it on long climbs, hot days, etc.
Thanks for the response though.
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rockklimber
Feb 24, 2011, 8:04 PM
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I have three of these harnesses so I'll give you my gear review(s).
I originally bought the regular safe tech harness because I think the molded gear loops on my first harness sucked when going up a chimney (catches on everything). I put many pitches on the new harness and it worked fine until I started to rack my trad gear on my harness. The weight of the gear caused the rear part of the waist loop to fold under.
So then I purchased the Safe Tech Deluxe (older version). The waist loop is larger in the back and this solved the problem with folding under. I used this harness for a couple of years climbing 30-40wkends a year and it worked perfectly. I saw the new Safe Tech Deluxe on sale and was noticing some wear on the older version so decided it was a good time to get a new harness.
So I have been using the new harness for maybe a year or so. It fits the same, but there are two obvious changes. The first is it has two belay loops. I personally haven't found a need for two belay loops so this wasn't really a change for me.
The other obvious change is the gear loops. The old harness had them in series. The new one has the back smaller gear loops slightly overlapping the front gear loops and slightly lower. At first this seemed strange, but I have learned that it makes it easier to reach gear on the rear loops than it was on the old harness since the rear loops is a little farther forward. I think the rear loop is a little bigger too.
As for fit, since the waist belt and leg loops are wider it is more comfortable during hanging belays. I have aided for up to 4+hrs in each deluxe version and haven't felt any discomfort (but then again I'm moving quite a bit so not still for very long).
Both harness have rated rear haul loops which some harnesses don't have.
Bottom line, I would recommend this harness.
Hope this helps.
(This post was edited by rockklimber on Feb 24, 2011, 8:06 PM)
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rockklimber
Feb 24, 2011, 8:18 PM
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taydude wrote: Honestly, go get a better harness. This harness is purely designed for inexperienced people that don't understand redundancy. Why would you ever double up the belay loop? It's already the strongest part of the harness. It's also stupid to make almost every part of the harness hold body weight. People should just learn how to use their harness correctly. What happens when you move to a normal harness and you forget you can't belay off your gear loop anymore?
I'm experienced and I understand redundancy.
I don't need a doubled up belay loop, but I know many other aid climbers who use them.
Why is it stupid to make every part of a harness hold bodyweight? (note: every gear loop on this harness is rated to 10kN which is much more than just bodyweight).
Have you ever seen anybody belay off their gear loop? I haven't.
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hyhuu
Feb 24, 2011, 8:32 PM
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taydude wrote: Honestly, go get a better harness. This harness is purely designed for inexperienced people that don't understand redundancy. Why would you ever double up the belay loop? It's already the strongest part of the harness. It's also stupid to make almost every part of the harness hold body weight. People should just learn how to use their harness correctly. What happens when you move to a normal harness and you forget you can't belay off your gear loop anymore?
Aid/Big Wall.
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vegastradguy
Feb 24, 2011, 8:47 PM
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rockklimber wrote: Have you ever seen anybody belay off their gear loop? I haven't.
i have- and there's also the case where a girl at a climbing gym clipped into her gear loop, climbed up, and i believe either died or was seriously injured when the gear loop failed.
its not necessarily stupid to make the harness stronger, but it 'dumbs down' the required skill set to climb safely, something that strikes me as dangerous. this sport isnt exactly rocket science, so asking people who are coming into it to pay attention isnt, in my opinon, too much to ask. after all, if they choose wrong, they or their partner could not live to tell the tale.
edit: to the OP- go hang in one of these harnesses. it can look comfy for all the world, but if it doesnt fit you correctly, there's no point in purchasing it. there are a ton of comfortable harnesses out there- try a bunch on and buy the one you like.
(This post was edited by vegastradguy on Feb 24, 2011, 8:49 PM)
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rockklimber
Feb 24, 2011, 9:01 PM
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vegastradguy wrote: rockklimber wrote: Have you ever seen anybody belay off their gear loop? I haven't. i have- and there's also the case where a girl at a climbing gym clipped into her gear loop, climbed up, and i believe either died or was seriously injured when the gear loop failed. its not necessarily stupid to make the harness stronger, but it 'dumbs down' the required skill set to climb safely, something that strikes me as dangerous. this sport isnt exactly rocket science, so asking people who are coming into it to pay attention isnt, in my opinon, too much to ask. after all, if they choose wrong, they or their partner could not live to tell the tale. edit: to the OP- go hang in one of these harnesses. it can look comfy for all the world, but if it doesnt fit you correctly, there's no point in purchasing it. there are a ton of comfortable harnesses out there- try a bunch on and buy the one you like.
Damn, that's pretty stupid to belay off a gear loop. And I think I've actually caught someone tying into their gear loop now that I think of it. Now I'm split between letting nature take it's course or have them be saved by an overkill harness. Too many gumbies out there already. Darwin....
Yep, I agree none of this stuff is rocket science and if you are too stupid to tie in or belay correctly then maybe you should stick to ping pong or something safer.
And I agree with just going out and trying out the harness yourself. Can't tell how it fits just by looking at a picture or reading a review. But I still like the harness.
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ckirkwood9
Feb 24, 2011, 9:02 PM
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rockklimber wrote: I have three of these harnesses so I'll give you my gear review(s).... Hope this helps.
YES it did... THANKS - this is exactly what i was looking for... actual user review as opposed to conjecture. Stars to you my man!
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alexnees
Feb 24, 2011, 11:09 PM
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alexnees wrote: No personal experience with this harness. I can only recommend this review
ckirkwood9 wrote: that review is for the original 'safe tech', not the 'safe tech IMPROVED'
woosh
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charlie.elverson
Feb 25, 2011, 12:42 AM
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I have the big wall version of this harness and it's a great harness. I have a few observations about this harness, which I think transfer between the one you're looking at and the big wall version.
1) the adjustable rise is pretty nice. you can adjust how far the leg loop buckles are below the belay loop. this seemed silly to me, at first, but after getting the length adjust correctly, the harness is even more comfortable.
2) the buckles are a pain in the ass. For some reason, doubling back the buckles on this harness is far more difficult than normal (I think it has to do with them designing the buckle for extra safety when not doubled-back)
3) for day-to-day use, the double belay loops seem pretty useless. The only situation where I use them is on a big wall.
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TradEddie
Feb 25, 2011, 6:03 PM
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I have the old version, I bought it because I loved the fit of my previous Metolius harness, and this fits great too. I don't like where the front gear loops are located because it interferes with the end of the waist belt, or maybe more importantly the end of the belt interferes with gear on the loop. I also found the rear loops to be a bit small. I wouldn't buy the new one with the two belay loops, that just looks like a clusterf** waiting to happen.
TE
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ianwatson
Feb 28, 2011, 8:22 PM
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im in the market for a new harness, anyone know if this harness is made in USA? If it is i will buy it just for that. i like all my metolius gear but have never tryed one of there harnesses.
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ckirkwood9
Mar 2, 2011, 7:36 PM
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I ordered this... i'll give a review once i've climbed in it.
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ianwatson
Mar 2, 2011, 7:38 PM
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I found out it is USA made but they did not have my size M, but i looked it over looks like a well made harness. i will check back and hopefull have it soon.
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vegastradguy
Mar 2, 2011, 10:42 PM
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ianwatson wrote: I found out it is USA made but they did not have my size M, but i looked it over looks like a well made harness. i will check back and hopefull have it soon.
fwiw, Yates and Misty Mountain are two other companies that make their harnesses in the USA, as do several other companies.
also fwiw- where the harness is made has no bearing on its safety.
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caughtinside
Mar 2, 2011, 10:54 PM
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vegastradguy wrote: also fwiw- where the harness is made has no bearing on its safety.
I agree with you on that, but some people like purchase stuff made in the USA to support our local and national economies. I myself strongly prefer to buy goods made here.
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ianwatson
Mar 3, 2011, 2:38 PM
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vegastradguy wrote: ianwatson wrote: I found out it is USA made but they did not have my size M, but i looked it over looks like a well made harness. i will check back and hopefull have it soon. fwiw, Yates and Misty Mountain are two other companies that make their harnesses in the USA, as do several other companies. also fwiw- where the harness is made has no bearing on its safety.
yeah i dont do it for safety, i do it to support our workers. i have a misty mountain now and it has been a good harness.
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ianwatson
Mar 3, 2011, 2:39 PM
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caughtinside wrote: vegastradguy wrote: also fwiw- where the harness is made has no bearing on its safety. I agree with you on that, but some people like purchase stuff made in the USA to support our local and national economies. I myself strongly prefer to buy goods made here.
Amen
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Lbrombach
Mar 3, 2011, 4:10 PM
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I've had it for almost a year... Use it at the gym and on sport outside. It works. It's way more comfortable than my old harness. I don't know how well the loops would hold a bunch of trad gear... they seem to get fairly crowded with just quickdraws for long pitches. Why would one belay off a gear loop with so many belay loops to choose from? They're not reduntant for strength/safety, it's a big wall thing, but I often use one to anchor at the top of a sport pitch, and rig my rappel with the other. Just keeps shit from getting in the way. Do I need 10kn gear loops? No, but from time to time I'll use them for a second anchor point...say if I want to hang around and the geometry makes it easier for me to keep equal-ish tension on both anchor points.
I can see how it allows the "dumbing down" of climbers and have been concerned because noobs can see me using gear loops for stuff and think that it's ok with their harness too. Just know YOUR gear and don't forget which harness you've got on if you ever switch.
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MS1
Mar 4, 2011, 7:39 PM
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ianwatson wrote: vegastradguy wrote: ianwatson wrote: I found out it is USA made but they did not have my size M, but i looked it over looks like a well made harness. i will check back and hopefull have it soon. fwiw, Yates and Misty Mountain are two other companies that make their harnesses in the USA, as do several other companies. also fwiw- where the harness is made has no bearing on its safety. yeah i dont do it for safety, i do it to support our workers. i have a misty mountain now and it has been a good harness.
"Our workers?"
You don't know (I assume) the people who make metolius harnesses, or any of the harnesses made in another country. All these harnesses are made by people, none of whom you have any real connection with. To the extent that you care about who your money goes to, it would be better to buy harnesses made in poorer countries with less of a safety net than America; those workers will suffer much more if demand drops enough that they lose their jobs.
Preferring to "buy American" is just in-group nonsense. Buy the gear you like the best, and if you are indifferent, choose something that puts money in the hands of actually needy people.
[/standard rant]
(Edited to add that I respect metolius gear a lot, own some of it, and have no reason to think these aren't good harnesses sold at a decent price.)
(This post was edited by MS1 on Mar 4, 2011, 7:40 PM)
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ianwatson
Mar 4, 2011, 7:53 PM
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MS1 wrote: ianwatson wrote: vegastradguy wrote: ianwatson wrote: I found out it is USA made but they did not have my size M, but i looked it over looks like a well made harness. i will check back and hopefull have it soon. fwiw, Yates and Misty Mountain are two other companies that make their harnesses in the USA, as do several other companies. also fwiw- where the harness is made has no bearing on its safety. yeah i dont do it for safety, i do it to support our workers. i have a misty mountain now and it has been a good harness. "Our workers?" You don't know (I assume) the people who make metolius harnesses, or any of the harnesses made in another country. All these harnesses are made by people, none of whom you have any real connection with. To the extent that you care about who your money goes to, it would be better to buy harnesses made in poorer countries with less of a safety net than America; those workers will suffer much more if demand drops enough that they lose their jobs. Preferring to "buy American" is just in-group nonsense. Buy the gear you like the best, and if you are indifferent, choose something that puts money in the hands of actually needy people. [/standard rant] (Edited to add that I respect metolius gear a lot, own some of it, and have no reason to think these aren't good harnesses sold at a decent price.)
no need for me to argue with you, we all have our own views.
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ianwatson
Mar 21, 2011, 7:12 PM
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my harness is going to arrive at my house today i will use it a bit and post how i like it after a few outings.
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psprings
Mar 27, 2011, 11:08 PM
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FWIW-
I've had this harness since it came out. Some observations:
1. Either you like the plastic molded gear loops, or you dont. I don't- I think they totally suck. The metolius harness is a nice option if you feel the same way.
2. Contrary to Vegastradguy, I hardly think that make a gear loop hold 10Kn is hardly "dumbing" the sport down, rather it is making a safer harness should you do something wrong (think about rappelling in the dark and your chances for clipping the wrong loop). It's a matter of perspective here. I dont see people hating on Petzl or other companies that have their harnesses in a state of always doubled back.
3. Which leads me to the waist belt. I'd love to see it like most harnesses, that have gone to a "always doubled back" system. More safer = more betterer! This is my only thing that I think could be improved with the harness.
Total rating: 4.5/5
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ianwatson
Mar 28, 2011, 1:42 PM
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I took my new harness out this weekend, and i am very happy with it. It was good for all day comfort, i like how the gear loops are offset somewhat i put a set of mastercams 0-6 on one loop, nuts tri-cams on another loop and draws on another still had some room. seems very well built.
now the only real con i have is it is a tad heavy.
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j_ung
Mar 28, 2011, 3:05 PM
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ckirkwood9 wrote: I'm really looking for someone who has actual experience with the harness rather than opinions on the design.
I climb in one of these exclusively. It's my third Safe Tech in a row. I have never accidentally or otherwise tied into a non-tie-in point.
Though Metolius bills it as extra safe and calls it the "Safe Tech," there are other reasons why someone might like extra-strong gear loops. I do a lot of route development and some rebolting, and frankly, I love being able to clip my drill, my tools and a bunch stainless steel to my gear loop and not have to give a crap about how strong it is.
Second, it's ridiculously adjustable. I'm short and a little stocky, and I love being able to customize the fit accordingly.
Third, I'm about a year and a half out from low-back surgery, so I need something with real meat to the support. This has it in spades. I can hang and drill for hours with no adverse effects. I'd never attempt that in most other harnesses.
So there you go—three reasons to consider buying one of these, and none have anything to do with accidentally tying in to a leg-loop keeper strap. 
Here's my full review.
http://www.gear.com/...luxe-harness-review/
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ckirkwood9
Mar 28, 2011, 3:46 PM
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In reply to: I’m almost as worried about accidentally tying into a gear loop as I am accidentally onsighting 5.15.
HAHAH... excellent.
Good selling point about hauling heavy loads from the various loops on the harness.
I have yet to hit the gunks this year for some trad fun, but am looking forward to it in this harness. It's really comfortable in the gym, so far so good. I am a little concerned how my trad gear will rack due to the overlapping gear loops, but surely it'll work out fine, OR I'll come up with a new way of racking.
Agreed to several who mentioned difficulty with double-backing the waist belt... it IS a little more difficult than my BD Blizzard was, but not a show-stopper.
Cheers to all.
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j_ung
Mar 28, 2011, 10:34 PM
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Heh, glad you liked that.
I may be so used to it that I just don't notice any difficulty doubling back. As for racking, I put all my protection on the front two loops (smallest in front) and all my runners/draws on the back. No troubles to report! I think you'll like it.
(This post was edited by j_ung on Mar 28, 2011, 10:34 PM)
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nswelton
Apr 6, 2011, 1:30 PM
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i have been using mostly metolius harnesses since i started climbing. i like that you can adjust the rise of the leg loops, which allows you to get a very precise fit. i am unaware of any other harness that allows you to do this.
as a result of the leg loop adjustability, i can hang in them longer and more comfortably than any other harness i've used. i did my first big wall in a very minimalistic older metolius harness, and found it way more comfortable than my subsequent misty mountain cadillac.
i highly recommend these harnesses.
as far as all the safety stuff goes, if it's safer, great. many great climbers have almost killed themselves with beginner errors.
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