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rtwilli4
Mar 17, 2011, 1:52 PM
Post #26 of 40
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camhead wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: EDITED to add that camhead is correct in saying that there is overlap. I forgot to add him and johnL (angry) but I have met both of them and they both climb 5.12. They would both be in lena's group of 5.12 climbers as well. Hey Ryan, where have we met? I just realized that I recognize you from your mp.com pics.
We played scrabble at Miguel's in KY one night. Adam and I were around for a few weeks w/ some friends, I think we had just spent October at the New and we met you and John in early November?
I remember that John had just been on (sent?) Welcome to Old Kentuck and I had just broken Tacos' blue Alien. She was a Japanese girl that has since been in a horrible car accident. Anyways, I had just fallen on her Alien and she wasn't happy about it and we had John look at it since he had worked for CCH.
I've talked to John a few times about Bermuda, titanium bolts and whatnot. I was actually thinking of taking that job before he did... sounds like it's all over now though.
Hope you guys are both doing well!
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camhead
Mar 17, 2011, 2:03 PM
Post #27 of 40
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rtwilli4 wrote: camhead wrote: rtwilli4 wrote: EDITED to add that camhead is correct in saying that there is overlap. I forgot to add him and johnL (angry) but I have met both of them and they both climb 5.12. They would both be in lena's group of 5.12 climbers as well. Hey Ryan, where have we met? I just realized that I recognize you from your mp.com pics. We played scrabble at Miguel's in KY one night. Adam and I were around for a few weeks w/ some friends, I think we had just spent October at the New and we met you and John in early November? I remember that John had just been on (sent?) Welcome to Old Kentuck and I had just broken Tacos' blue Alien. She was a Japanese girl that has since been in a horrible car accident. Anyways, I had just fallen on her Alien and she wasn't happy about it and we had John look at it since he had worked for CCH. I've talked to John a few times about Bermuda, titanium bolts and whatnot. I was actually thinking of taking that job before he did... sounds like it's all over now though. Hope you guys are both doing well!
Oh, ok, I remember that. Sucks about the accident Taco was in; I think I remember reading about that somewhere.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Mar 17, 2011, 2:11 PM
Post #28 of 40
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So after the first page we have 112/341 or 33%.
Please keep them coming.
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camhead
Mar 17, 2011, 2:36 PM
Post #29 of 40
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for the sake of argument, and that I am putting off work responsibilities.
On my facebook friends list, I have 133 friends who are climbers. 67 have done minimum 5.12a redpoint/v5 bouldering.
21 are better climbers than me :)
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taydude
Mar 17, 2011, 3:55 PM
Post #30 of 40
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climbers known: 100's
5.12+ maybe 10-20 and that's being generous
I agree with other people with the "what's the fascination with 5.12?"
I think 5.12 used to be a big milestone for most people. I think almost anyone that starts climbing in a reasonably fit state will eventually achieve at least 5.12a. I think 5.13 is the new 5.12. 13 climbers are much more rare.
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hafilax
Mar 17, 2011, 4:00 PM
Post #31 of 40
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camhead wrote: One other thing that makes this approach so difficult is overlap. The climbing community is very small. I would be willing to bet that of all the 5.12 climbers that I and Lena know, we have at least 20 in common. I think that the best way to determine this would be to take a random sample of people who have bought a standard piece of equipment in the last year (most likely a rope), and ask what their highest redpoint was. 
Most climbing areas have pretty centralized parking don't they? A few pollsters at the most popular areas might get some data to work with. Some climbing areas attract different ability levels so it would either have to be somewhere like Smith Rock where all levels are pretty equally represented. In Squamish you could poll the Smoke Bluffs, Check, The Chief and Murrin and get a pretty good sampling. This is the least biased approach I can think of.
Around here I would guess that the median climbing grade for trad would be 5.9 and for sport 11-. The distribution would probably approach a Rician.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Mar 17, 2011, 4:29 PM
Post #32 of 40
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lena_chita wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: Oh, and your stalker has gone to 5 stars away from 1. (Either that or someone really quickly loved your post). Give it until midday tomorrow. 1-starers will come. Of course, there is hope that they might get tired of it, eventually.
Right on schedule.
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Mar 17, 2011, 4:32 PM
Post #33 of 40
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camhead wrote: for the sake of argument, and that I am putting off work responsibilities.
The definition of RC.com.
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jackflash
Mar 17, 2011, 4:41 PM
Post #34 of 40
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A few years ago I surveyed ~350 climbers as part of my Masters thesis. Part of the survey asked about the most difficult route ever climbed. Roughly 5% had redpointed 5.12 trad.
A few limitations; this survey was conducted only at the Gunks. The scale only includes climbers who identified themselves as primarily traditional lead climbers. If climbers who self-identified as trad, sport, and top-ropers had been all lumped together, the percentage would probably be different.
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the_climber
Mar 17, 2011, 4:51 PM
Post #35 of 40
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There is a big difference between being able to climb a few 5.12's and being a 5.12 climber.
The true grade you climb is what you can climb any day, on any rock, in any condition, in any sport or trad.
Many people who climb 5.12 and up climb with other people who climb 5.12 and up. With that said, their results will be skewed on the high side. Likewise those who climb 5.9 and under tend to climb with more people who climb 5.9 and under so their results to your poll will be skewed on the low side.
If I were to list the % of sport only climbers I know (taking out the Trad climbers) who can pull 5.12 sport it would be around 10-15%.
If I include sport and trad climbers that percentage drops to 7-10% roughly.
Here's the real answer from me though. If I guess on the high side as to the percentage of climbers I know who can climb 5.12 Trad and 5.12 Sport... well, that percentage would be 4-5% on the high side.
Grades most climbers quote are like the commercial waist sizes on jeans, you like to believe that your 32" Levi's waist really means you have a 32" waist... but a true measurement will tell you otherwise.
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jt512
Mar 17, 2011, 5:15 PM
Post #36 of 40
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If I had more coffee, I could think of a more comprehensive list of climbers I know. My single cup of coffee list contains 70 climbers of whom 60 (86%) climb 5.12.
Jay
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ClimbSoHigh
Mar 17, 2011, 6:33 PM
Post #37 of 40
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In reply to: By 5.12, you must mean sport climbers. By that measure there are tons. By 5.12 trad all around bad ass clmbers, there aren't that many.
I estimate somewhere around 5% of people who have led sport climbs can or have led 12a or harder.
I estimate way less that 1% of people who have led on gear can or have lead 12a trad or harder.
If you bring into the picture all people that have ever climbed, those numbers would go WAY down. There are a lot of climbers that never leave the gym or do not lead if they go outside.
As many people have pointed out, the sample pool you ask will give drastically different answers. If you ask climbers hanging out at certain sport crags liek the Motherlode, you might get results suggesting 95% of climbers can hike 5.12.
(This post was edited by ClimbSoHigh on Mar 17, 2011, 6:35 PM)
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blueeyedclimber
Mar 20, 2011, 1:53 AM
Post #38 of 40
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: Know: 18 Climb 5.12: 1
Liar. There aren't 18 climbers in Nebraska. 
Josh
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Mar 20, 2011, 3:12 AM
Post #39 of 40
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blueeyedclimber wrote: Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: Know: 18 Climb 5.12: 1 Liar. There aren't 18 climbers in Nebraska. Josh
Yer rong. Der r many mor climbrs only no stinking climbs.
And you will need to scuse me. I need to drive 10 hours tomorrow to get to a crag.
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flesh
Mar 22, 2011, 11:40 PM
Post #40 of 40
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lena_chita wrote: I thought these calculations have been done (by better means than yours). If I recall correctly, either climbing or Rock and Ice did a poll like that a couple of year ago, and found that only ~25% of respondents (people who subscribed to the magazine and responded) climbed above 5.10. By extrapolating from that, I will say that the percentage of people who climb >5.12 is ~5%. But if I look at people I personally know... let's see. If I take 107 climbers who are on my facebook friends list, 56 of them climb at least 5.12. My verdict is, your poll would be hopelessly skewed, too, because people tend to associate with other of similar ability. 5.12+ climbers are more likely to personally know more than a 'fair' share of other 5.12+ climbers, so it wouldn't be representative...
2nd for not representative.
Almost every climber I can think of, a couple dozen, climb 5.12
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