I am not convinced. There is no way, NO WAY, that hexes were useful. It's a well known fact that hexes are useless lead-weights that drop you 2 number grades.

HAHAHA

well, I can attest that these two weren't lead. And if we ever climb together, I'm gonna stash a few on your harness so I can keep up.

This nice thing about climbing at the lowest of the number grades is that there's no going lower til after the summit! I get to fool around with fearing of going down number grades.

The hex was out of my understanding.

But I have this itch for some non wired nuts (I'm gonna call them roped nuts til I'm corrected) after fiddling with a few...don't see that on a sport rack!

ROPED NUTzzzzz!!! Heh

still lovin it out there...

ls

Oh for the love of nuts, I have rope wired nuts.
They're my best nuts. I made them myself I did. shaped them, drilled them, slung them, carefully slotted them. Fantastic.
And yes Hexes have there place. Sure, cams and tri-cams are better in 99% of the placements, but the rest is for the hex.

Fixed that for ya...

Wow ....
I greatly appreciate much of the advice, I wish it could have been done without the personal attacks that ensued as I feel it limited the amount of responses and insights that could have been received, and at present the argument is not too pertinent to me as I am not climbing routes that I even think for a second i'd fall on.

I have purchased a rack and have scratched her up a bit.

I am in the no fall stage, but i'd not climb trad under the auspicity of "never fall". Otherwise, why would I spend a boat load of cash on gear to protect me. But eh, climbing is personal, its your life on the line so you make your own choices and, (hope to) live with them.

I'd greatly appreciate more advice, if there are books worth reading (i've read just about everything by long), websites worth checking, persons who are generous with their time to answer questions please do not hesitate to private message me

Safe and Happy Climbing to All.

if you never put yrself in a position where you are likely to fall on trad ... eventually one of these days youll end up in a position where a fall can be very bad on a multipitch, and just when you need a calm head, youll get elvis legs because youre so scared from never making that type of mental move before

been there, done that ...

the trick is to go for it when the fall is clean and the gear is good ...

A very valid point and one that I agree with to a certain point. One thing that everyone must realize is that falling while being a knucklehead and trying things when you have no reasonable chance of success is not a wise move in trad. For one simple reason. Trad protection is inherently flawed. Things can go wrong even when most would find the pro "bomber", with no fault being on the person placing it to start with. Take a cam for instance a great placement to start with but just a little rope drag and it walks to a not so bomber placement, fails and a easy 10 foot fall turns into a twenty foot heart stopper! It happens more than any of us care to realize and because it typically ends only with a fast heartbeat it goes unnoticed by the world. So I agree yes falling is OK and it is going to happen while trad climbing. But that alone does not make it the place to be pushing the safety envelope! Our goal as climbers is to lessen or negate the risk while climbing. Push the limits on safety by intentionally taking a chance on a move you probably are not going to pull off is foolish and asking for trouble. So as a trad climber, I say don't try to pull it off down climb and find another way! Try it on bolts if you must try it! They are safer! (now to fend off those that want to argue the safety of a cam versus a bolt!)

it really depends on the pro ... if theres enough for some good DP or TP action ... i generally say go for it ... you have to remember that if you can fit 3 solid pieces in ... thats almost an anchor setup as well ... you can even equalize them ...

at a certain point you will be going up routes were a fall is very possible or even likely once you start getting to more vertical and overhung walls ... and quite often you cant practice those on sport leads ... different types of climbing ...

Here is another issue, if every time I climb I am placing three when its gonna be sketchy then how in the heck do I have any gear for an anchor? Are we not always on the very edge of sketchy to begin with? I agree that when we are about to make a move that could result in a fall or when a fall would result in disaster we should do everything we can to prevent either. Even if it is three pieces of gear! But again I say that Traditional climbing is not a place to push limits of ones climbing ability. Your supposed to climb without falling. They do call it climbing not falling for a reason!

Getting off topic to make a point on the topic,I know I have no business climbing a 5.11. I struggle with 5.10 on top rope. But I am everyday working on my technique, strength and stamina to get better on those 5.10's, and may someday actually get my skills to the 5.11 level. (I actually did climb 5.11 once but it was a fluke I still don't believe I actually pulled the crux). What is important to realize is that these routes are all on top rope. I would never try to climb a 5.10 on lead! Its above my ability! 5.8 is my limit, I know it and respect it, and have no business pushing it. My belayer nor a SAR team is going to be dealing with an accident because my ego told me to go for it! Trad is not the place to screw around with limits. Falling because you screwed up a "sequencey" move or missed a foot hold is one thing falling because your an idiot is another!

no offense ... but if yr not consistently leading 10- trad, you probably shouldnt be offering advice about falling on trad ... as it gets towards the 10s range, at least here in squamish, that the trad falls get cleaner ... and falls happen more often ...

This is a very interesting thread. There was a discussion about limits that requires that I comment:

I personally jumped on the sharp end of the rope before I was comfortable but I placed a lot of protection and climbed short single pitch routes for a long time before adding in the complexity of belay anchors and other multi-pitch issues. Add one new thing at a time until you are a complete trad climbing dynamo.

Dave

But again I say that Traditional climbing is not a place to push limits of ones climbing ability. Your supposed to climb without falling

The choice between trad and sport is not a question to know which style is more respectable than the other. Personally, knowing my pro, rope management, how to fall, keeping my concentration, etc, is more fun than controlling my body to place my hands and feet at the good place after working my project. I will also say that golf is not fun because you run after a ball like a dog. It is differrent and I can push my limit on trad.

Never did join the tricam cult. They look like they could be very usefull sometimes. Although never been anywhere all I had was a cam but wished for a tricam.

Do you believe that a good sport climber should be testing his climbing ability when he is introducing himself to trad leading and all its complexities? If you do, you are being irresponsible to another climber! As a self proclaimed seasoned climber you have every reason to be on the edge of your abilities but not a new guy!

You haven't climbed enough pocketed limestone then.

Is this the light side, dark side, or just the steep and high side?

This is the side of the coin - careful, though. A few more steps and you'll stumble over to the real dark side... Alpinism.

purtee colors...

I'd never used roped stoppers before this weekend and honestly I can see the appeal of having a few of these on a light rack.

Of course, wired ones seem really nice for small stuff, but I kinda like the flexibility of the roped ones. Then again, all the roped stoppers I played with were BIG - bigger than my thumb! made them easier to place for sure.

Oh damn...guess I really AM converted. Is this the light side, dark side, or just the steep and high side?

heh

Cheers

ls