Hey all,

Just breaking into the world of trad climbing and was wondering what size and brand of cam you would recommend having/ having multiples of. I already have quite a bit of passive protection and would like to start developing a larger selection of cams. Let me know opinions thoughts things to look at/for, pros and cons, anything really!

Thanks.

Now for the most useless reply ever:

When I first got doubles, I picked up extra hand-sized pieces because I was climbing a lot of that size. Nowadays, my #2 camalots just hang on the rack. Not because I'm climbing different routes, rather I don't like to fill a bomber handjam with gear. My 1s and 3s get used a lot more.

With doubles, you're well served to find the sizes you use the least and find the first piece bigger (if your unused piece is very small) or smaller (if your unused piece is very big) and fill in from there. The question is not so much what do you use the most, but what placements do you see most easily?

a set of BD stoppers and a set of the HBeez.

small cams (tips to fingers): aliens (pull-tested or new post-demise), or metolius. don't bother with C3's unless you nearly exclusively climb granite.

fingers and up: black diamond, including at least one 0.3 C4, which is my favoritest piece and one 0.4, which is just a hair different in size than then flanking metolii. . metolius 4cus are have narrow heads for their camming size at hands or above and are easy to tend to rotate out of marginal placements as you climb past. they also have narrower acceptable ranges than BD, and the tips of the cam lobes get stuck like fucking motherfuckers when you overcam them. pull the trigger on one all the way and you'll see why.

i also have friends who like Totem cams a lot, they're lighter than BD but they rack bulky because of the construction. link cams break.

none to start with ... chances are youll be climbing with a more experience partner, or should be

and he/she will have at least singles to complement yr singles

after a bit of climbing then you can decide what pieces you most frequently DP with

in other news, you'll almost certainly actually buy whatever cams you get used to leading on.

or avoid whatever you dont like ... or get the chance to try a lot of different gear with different partners before spending $$$$$

nothing wrong with sticking to what works and youve actually tried ... especially when its protecting yr life ...

better than having some guy on the intrawebs tell ya what they should use

just for ya ... heres a gumbay climbing on metollius u stems ... notice how they dont seem to rotate out ... maybe they got stuck?

what was his name again ... peter croft or something? ...



everyone prefers different stuff .... much of what is said on the RC about what cams one should or should not use is pretty irrelevant in the real world ... a much better source is the supertopo reviews, at least they do actual comparisons ...

those are not even close to "hand size or bigger," dogfucker. if they were, he'd have his hands in the crack. seeing as how he has no appendages or digits of any kind in the crack, I'm gonna go ahead and say it's probably in the neighborhood of more like a tips crack. which is, oh right, in the size range where I specifically said metolius are generally better.

OMG ... look at those big u stemmers on peter ... and such a tight azz

[IMG]http://i55.tinypic.com/2iblslw.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i56.tinypic.com/2mi3toi.png[/IMG]

You say "dogfucker" like it's an insult. Most breeds have a lot of love to give, it would be rude not to reciprocate.

Wow. Professional climber who can climb on anything climbs on cams he gets for free. Alert the media!

You say "dogfucker" like it's an insult. Most breeds have a lot of love to give, it would be rude not to reciprocate.

let your dog fuck you, I don't give a damn. but please don't fuck your dog.

Sig line

obviously he has no problem climbing hard on those cams ... unlike someone here who says they rotate out and get stuck ...

like i said ... go out and try as many cams as you can ... some RCers are more interested in trying to convince you how anything they dont like suck or the myriad of ways youre gonna die

in the real world any modern good cam will work for most of the climbing out there ... its all preference, which the OP wont be able to figure out by listening to rc "experts" without some feely feely touchy touchy

You both sort of have a point. Metolius cams do rotate and get stuck easier in my opinion. My cams are aliens in the small sizes and BD larger, like most folks out west. That said, Metolius cams are bomber, and if I got them free I would sell my old stuff and happily climb on those silly U Stems.

Hey all,

Just breaking into the world of trad climbing and was wondering what size and brand of cam you would recommend having/ having multiples of.

Thanks.

You should buy what you like, as everyone else has said. But I think you specifically SHOULD NOT buy doubles of the same brand. I don't care how much you love Brand XX, there are subtle differences between cams such that a different brand may provide a better placement. Especially in the smaller end of things. I carry both Metolius units and Aliens in the inch-and-under range, and can't count the number of times when one brand will fit so-so, but the other brand will give a perfect placement. Green Alien is between blue and yellow Met, Yellow Alien is between yellow and orange Met, red Alien is... (You get the idea)

hmm, I'm going to disagree with you, but only because I've got aliens, which everyone knows are the best small cams. The situation you describe, where one brand fits better than another, is a minority situation. I would rather have the best cams for most situations.

Most of the difference you cite aren't that big anyway. blue metolius basically is green alien (with less range.) Ditto yellow alien and yellow metolius. I think that orange metolius might be a different size, maybe same as grey alien (which I don't use anyway because it's unnecessary.)

everyone prefers different stuff .... much of what is said on the RC about what cams one should or should not use is pretty irrelevant in the real world ... a much better source is the supertopo reviews, at least they do actual comparisons ...

Thanks for all the replies. I iinherited a number 5 and 4 bd c4 and went ahead and got the 3 2 1 bd c4s when i get paid again im thinkin c4 .3 .4 .5 and .75 thoughts?

Good advice, I have two sets of bd stoppers 4-13. I like to play around at the crag on the bottom just placing gear to get use to it. Any other things I can do to become more comfortable with placements etc..

But I think you specifically SHOULD NOT buy doubles of the same brand.

Definitely get the .5 and .75, below that I'm a little undecided. If the new production of Aliens works out I think I would lean that way but, the .3 and .4 C4s seem fine.

I don't really like the .3 and .4 C4s. I find them to be the widest of all the cams of that size and also that cam width suddenly becomes more of an issue in that range.

Doubling up on the same brand means that you only need to learn one set of cam sizes. Adding a brand with slightly different sizing can open up more placement opportunities but you also have to learn how to spot them. For easily protected routes it's not a big deal but as the routes get harder to protect small differences can become significant especially in the small gear sizes. This includes passive gear.

So for those sizes what would you recommend in there place?

i don't like them as well in granite- they definitely have wider heads than anything else in that size. But I love them in sandstone, because they have wider heads than anything else in that size.