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JustinBrown
Aug 15, 2011, 5:56 PM
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Hey all,
Just breaking into the world of trad climbing and was wondering what size and brand of cam you would recommend having/ having multiples of. I already have quite a bit of passive protection and would like to start developing a larger selection of cams. Let me know opinions thoughts things to look at/for, pros and cons, anything really!
Thanks.
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hyhuu
Aug 15, 2011, 6:13 PM
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That will depend on the area and the grade. Talk with your locals.
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Kartessa
Aug 15, 2011, 6:57 PM
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JustinBrown wrote: Hey all, Just breaking into the world of trad climbing and was wondering what size and brand of cam you would recommend having/ having multiples of. I already have quite a bit of passive protection and would like to start developing a larger selection of cams. Let me know opinions thoughts things to look at/for, pros and cons, anything really! Thanks.
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petsfed
Aug 15, 2011, 7:02 PM
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Now for the most useless reply ever:
When I first got doubles, I picked up extra hand-sized pieces because I was climbing a lot of that size. Nowadays, my #2 camalots just hang on the rack. Not because I'm climbing different routes, rather I don't like to fill a bomber handjam with gear. My 1s and 3s get used a lot more.
With doubles, you're well served to find the sizes you use the least and find the first piece bigger (if your unused piece is very small) or smaller (if your unused piece is very big) and fill in from there. The question is not so much what do you use the most, but what placements do you see most easily?
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Kartessa
Aug 15, 2011, 7:58 PM
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petsfed wrote: Now for the most useless reply ever: When I first got doubles, I picked up extra hand-sized pieces because I was climbing a lot of that size. Nowadays, my #2 camalots just hang on the rack. Not because I'm climbing different routes, rather I don't like to fill a bomber handjam with gear. My 1s and 3s get used a lot more. With doubles, you're well served to find the sizes you use the least and find the first piece bigger (if your unused piece is very small) or smaller (if your unused piece is very big) and fill in from there. The question is not so much what do you use the most, but what placements do you see most easily?
Shit... that was almost helpful...
Things dont feel right anymore 
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petsfed
Aug 15, 2011, 9:04 PM
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The common answer "whatever you use the most of" is really bad advice because that's affected by what placements you see, what climbs you're doing, where you are, your comfort level with certain cam sizes (no joke, one of my partners consistently passes by small cam placements because he doesn't trust them, and will therefore run it out when a string of green alien placements were right in front of him, he just doesn't see them), and a host of other things.
So the answer to the question is "fuck, I dunno". And its the best possible answer.
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kennoyce
Aug 15, 2011, 10:33 PM
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BD C4's seem to be the most popular brand, size (as has been said) is totally dependent on where and what you climb.
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vencido
Aug 16, 2011, 12:20 AM
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The deal is that you need time and experience in your area to know this.
But a double set of cams in the common sizes will get you up just about anything (especially at your level).
When you get more experience then you can say, I feel comfortable with just one #2 BD or I seem to need 4 yellow metolius cams on these finger cracks.
Sorry its not the cheapest option but with a double set you won't have that many climbs that you can't do for lack of pro.
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drivel
Aug 16, 2011, 12:25 AM
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a set of BD stoppers and a set of the HBeez.
small cams (tips to fingers): aliens (pull-tested or new post-demise), or metolius. don't bother with C3's unless you nearly exclusively climb granite.
fingers and up: black diamond, including at least one 0.3 C4, which is my favoritest piece and one 0.4, which is just a hair different in size than then flanking metolii. . metolius 4cus are have narrow heads for their camming size at hands or above and are easy to tend to rotate out of marginal placements as you climb past. they also have narrower acceptable ranges than BD, and the tips of the cam lobes get stuck like fucking motherfuckers when you overcam them. pull the trigger on one all the way and you'll see why.
i also have friends who like Totem cams a lot, they're lighter than BD but they rack bulky because of the construction. link cams break.
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bearbreeder
Aug 16, 2011, 12:25 AM
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none to start with ... chances are youll be climbing with a more experience partner, or should be
and he/she will have at least singles to complement yr singles
after a bit of climbing then you can decide what pieces you most frequently DP with 
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drivel
Aug 16, 2011, 12:30 AM
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drivel wrote: a set of BD stoppers and a set of the HBeez. small cams (tips to fingers): aliens (pull-tested or new post-demise), or metolius. don't bother with C3's unless you nearly exclusively climb granite. fingers and up: black diamond, including at least one 0.3 C4, which is my favoritest piece and one 0.4, which is just a hair different in size than then flanking metolii. . metolius 4cus are have narrow heads for their camming size at hands or above and are easy to tend to rotate out of marginal placements as you climb past. they also have narrower acceptable ranges than BD, and the tips of the cam lobes get stuck like fucking motherfuckers when you overcam them. pull the trigger on one all the way and you'll see why. i also have friends who like Totem cams a lot, they're lighter than BD but they rack bulky because of the construction. link cams break.
which is not to say I wouldn't take a fall on my purple C3; I totally would. (love you, little buddy. you go places nobody else will.) but the triggers on the C3s are super stiff, and for almost anything that's not granite, you might as well get metolii instead. if it IS granite, though... getcha some C3s.
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drivel
Aug 16, 2011, 12:31 AM
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bearbreeder wrote: none to start with ... chances are youll be climbing with a more experience partner, or should be and he/she will have at least singles to complement yr singles after a bit of climbing then you can decide what pieces you most frequently DP with
in other news, you'll almost certainly actually buy whatever cams you get used to leading on.
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bearbreeder
Aug 16, 2011, 12:37 AM
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drivel wrote: in other news, you'll almost certainly actually buy whatever cams you get used to leading on.
or avoid whatever you dont like ... or get the chance to try a lot of different gear with different partners before spending $$$$$
nothing wrong with sticking to what works and youve actually tried ... especially when its protecting yr life ...
better than having some guy on the intrawebs tell ya what they should use
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drivel
Aug 16, 2011, 12:46 AM
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bearbreeder wrote: drivel wrote: in other news, you'll almost certainly actually buy whatever cams you get used to leading on. or avoid whatever you dont like ... or get the chance to try a lot of different gear with different partners before spending $$$$$ nothing wrong with sticking to what works and youve actually tried ... especially when its protecting yr life ... better than having some guy on the intrawebs tell ya what they should use
i didn't say it was a bad thing, dogfucker. just commented that that is what usually happens. as opposed to listening to some guy on the intrawebs.
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bearbreeder
Aug 16, 2011, 1:01 AM
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just for ya ... heres a gumbay climbing on metollius u stems ... notice how they dont seem to rotate out ... maybe they got stuck?
what was his name again ... peter croft or something? ...
everyone prefers different stuff .... much of what is said on the RC about what cams one should or should not use is pretty irrelevant in the real world ... a much better source is the supertopo reviews, at least they do actual comparisons ...
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drivel
Aug 16, 2011, 1:07 AM
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bearbreeder wrote: just for ya ... heres a gumbay climbing on metollius u stems ... notice how they dont seem to rotate out ... maybe they got stuck? what was his name again ... peter croft or something? ... everyone prefers different stuff .... much of what is said on the RC about what cams one should or should not use is pretty irrelevant in the real world ... a much better source is the supertopo reviews, at least they do actual comparisons ...
those are not even close to "hand size or bigger," dogfucker. if they were, he'd have his hands in the crack. seeing as how he has no appendages or digits of any kind in the crack, I'm gonna go ahead and say it's probably in the neighborhood of more like a tips crack. which is, oh right, in the size range where I specifically said metolius are generally better.
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caughtinside
Aug 16, 2011, 3:05 AM
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bearbreeder wrote: drivel wrote: those are not even close to "hand size or bigger," dogfucker. if they were, he'd have his hands in the crack. seeing as how he has no appendages or digits of any kind in the crack, I'm gonna go ahead and say it's probably in the neighborhood of more like a tips crack. which is, oh right, in the size range where I specifically said metolius are generally better. OMG ... look at those big u stemmers on peter ... and such a tight azz [IMG]http://i55.tinypic.com/2iblslw.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i56.tinypic.com/2mi3toi.png[/IMG]
Wow. Professional climber who can climb on anything climbs on cams he gets for free. Alert the media!
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notapplicable
Aug 16, 2011, 3:18 AM
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You say "dogfucker" like it's an insult. Most breeds have a lot of love to give, it would be rude not to reciprocate.
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drivel
Aug 16, 2011, 3:20 AM
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notapplicable wrote: You say "dogfucker" like it's an insult. Most breeds have a lot of love to give, it would be rude not to reciprocate.
let your dog fuck you, I don't give a damn. but please don't fuck your dog.
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notapplicable
Aug 16, 2011, 3:21 AM
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notapplicable wrote: You say "dogfucker" like it's an insult. Most breeds have a lot of love to give, it would be rude not to reciprocate.
Other than on ^that^ one issue though, drivels advice is sound.
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notapplicable
Aug 16, 2011, 3:22 AM
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drivel wrote: notapplicable wrote: You say "dogfucker" like it's an insult. Most breeds have a lot of love to give, it would be rude not to reciprocate. let your dog fuck you, I don't give a damn. but please don't fuck your dog.
Sig line
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drivel
Aug 16, 2011, 3:24 AM
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notapplicable wrote: drivel wrote: notapplicable wrote: You say "dogfucker" like it's an insult. Most breeds have a lot of love to give, it would be rude not to reciprocate. let your dog fuck you, I don't give a damn. but please don't fuck your dog. Sig line
knock yourself out.
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caughtinside
Aug 16, 2011, 3:40 AM
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bearbreeder wrote: caughtinside wrote: Wow. Professional climber who can climb on anything climbs on cams he gets for free. Alert the media! obviously he has no problem climbing hard on those cams ... unlike someone here who says they rotate out and get stuck ... like i said ... go out and try as many cams as you can ... some RCers are more interested in trying to convince you how anything they dont like suck or the myriad of ways youre gonna die in the real world any modern good cam will work for most of the climbing out there ... its all preference, which the OP wont be able to figure out by listening to rc "experts" without some feely feely touchy touchy
You both sort of have a point. Metolius cams do rotate and get stuck easier in my opinion. My cams are aliens in the small sizes and BD larger, like most folks out west. That said, Metolius cams are bomber, and if I got them free I would sell my old stuff and happily climb on those silly U Stems.
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