What's the longest route you'll lead on a single 60m rope?

What's the longest route you'll lead on a single 60m rope?

Longest single pitch would be 60 meters.

I guess you don't use any of that 60m or rope to tie in at each end and the belayer is hugging the rock, and you're content to run out the entire rope and set up a belay station at that point regardless of whether there's any anchorage.


The obvious answer is you climb until you get close to the amount of available rope (hopefully, your belayer is letting you know how much is left), and stop where a good 3-point belay anchor can be built.

I've been on many a route where the rope ran out and I or my partner had to start climbing before there was a belay.

That's simul-climbing (often caused by poor planning), but I don't think it's what the OP was asking about.

That's simul-climbing (often caused by poor planning),.

And often caused by good planning. I did a long slab route in the Cascades which has lots of 5.9 and below climbing so I simul-climbed a number of pitches in a row to save time.

For me, climbing (and life) is about taking my sweet time and smelling the roses.

Well, that's because you're a Navy swab. You probably do tactical rappelling, face first firing rounds on the way down.

I was unloading MRE's the last several days from Guard Blackhawks and those guys won't even shut down the engine. It's all hit and run.

For me, climbing (and life) is about taking my sweet time and smelling the roses.

If you do that then on some climbs you'll still be on the climb when it gets dark. Moving fast when necessary is part of safe climbing. Your claim that simul climbing is 'often casused by poor planning' shows your naivety.

Sorry, but starting a climb that you aren't sure you can finish before dark is poor planning in my book. You can start earlier or bring headlamps or a portaledge, or just be smart and put it off for another day.

Moving fast when an unexpected thunder storm moves in might be sensible, or moving fast when other such unpredictable events occur is part of safe mountaineering. But most "movin' fast" is a result of poor planning - in climbing, as in all things in life.

Sorry, but starting a climb that you aren't sure you can finish before dark is poor planning in my book.

You can start earlier

or bring headlamps

or a portaledge, or just be smart and put it off for another day.

But most "movin' fast" is a result of poor planning - in climbing, as in all things in life.

If you plan for the eventuality then its (sic) not poor planning is is?

Rescueman do you have any real world experience?

That depends on what the definition of "is" is.

But a blow job under the oval office desk is poor planning, no matter how much you think you've considered the eventualities.

I have far more "real world" experience in my nearly 60 years on the planet than most of you, but I live by choice in a different world: one in which getting to the end as quickly as possible is not the goal, in which case suicide is the most effective means of getting there.

Slow down and savor life. Live poor so that you can live free. Make plenty of time to help your neighbors. Leave the world a better place than you found it.

How do you manage to complete long climbs if you spend your time smelling the roses? Or don't you do long climbs?

How do you manage to complete long climbs if you spend your time smelling the roses? Or don't you do long climbs?

From the looks of things, he climbs about as much as majid.

Nothing more than six pitches, and nothing I can't complete before dark (with plans for a quick rap if a thunderstorm comes in).

But, if I were to do a longer climb, I would definitely bring my queen sized portaledge.

But RM makes prettier pictures

It quickly becomes evident that you don't know much about climbing.

What is it about the climbers on RC.com that requires them to cut other people down in order to feel good about themselves?

Are their egos really that fragile?

You're falsely assuming that people are calling you a egotistical nutcase who knows very little about climbing to "make themselves feel better." They are doing it because you consistently demonstrate yourself to be an egotistical nutcase who knows very little about climbing.

What is it about the climbers on RC.com that requires them to cut other people down in order to feel good about themselves?

Are their egos really that fragile?

Once again, I don't make assumptions, but merely respond to what is presented.

If your assumptions were correct, you would have a point, but they are as far from the truth as it's possible to be.

I'll admit to having climbed only for 20 years, since I started when I was 38. But I had the good fortune to begin the art of "dancing on rock" after I was done with the excessive hormonal idiocy of adolescence and youth.

Climbing was never a "sport" for me, but an encounter with the heart of the earth and a metaphysical meditation - something those who climb for sport or ego will never understand or appreciate. Having climbed traditional routes for 20 years without a single leader fall indicates that I had become a true master of the art.

My introduction to climbing came through the Outdoor Leadership Program of Greenfield MA Community College (one of the two, along with NOLS, most respected training curricula), and I worked as an Outward Bound instructor and wilderness guide, introducing hundreds of students to the art of climbing. I also worked as a private climbing guide.

Simultaneously, I broadened my knowledge, skill and expertise into industrial rigging and rescue, mountain rescue, caving and cave rescue, fast water paddling and rescue, ice rescue, and arborist climbing and rescue. I've taught rigging and rope rescue professionally for 12 years and introduced many to the art of climbing.

So, clearly, I have not only a deep knowledge and experience in rock climbing, but a far broader expertise in multiple rope rigging and rescue fields.

So what is it really that you find so challenging to your self-worth and limited experience that requires you (and others here) to get your panties so in a knot that you cannot tolerate my presence here?

I'm here simply to share my knowledge with others who wish to learn. I have no ego in this, since most of my life's work has been in service to the world. And I am certainly more sane than most modern Americans who are self-serving destroyers of everything wholesome and sacred on earth.

Perhaps my attitude toward life represents too much of a challenge for you to tolerate. There's a frightening orthodoxy here, as in most facets of modern life. If it's challenged the dogmatists attack the messenger rather than accept the truth of a different perspective.

It's been the same in all times and everywhere. And it's terribly sad that humanity has stooped so low.

Having climbed traditional routes for 20 years without a single leader fall indicates that I had become a true master of the art.

That depends on what the definition of "is" is.

But a blow job under the oval office desk is poor planning, no matter how much you think you've considered the eventualities.

I have far more "real world" experience in my nearly 60 years on the planet than most of you, but I live by choice in a different world: one in which getting to the end as quickly as possible is not the goal, in which case suicide is the most effective means of getting there.

Slow down and savor life. Live poor so that you can live free. Make plenty of time to help your neighbors. Leave the world a better place than you found it.

What is it about the climbers on RC.com that requires them to cut other people down in order to feel good about themselves?

Are their egos really that fragile?

Edit: To remove unnecessary aggression and insults.

Dammit I missed your post before the edit, and I bet it was fun to read

Yes some people sadly are like that. However you have falsely accuse me and others of this.

You started throwing mud by accusing those who climb quickly of planning poorly. This is simply wrong.

No, we just hate it when people with limited experience front like they are experts, and start dishing out information and advice about things they they lack experience in.

Please refrain from ever giving any advice about doing long mountain routes until you know what you are talking about.

Edit: To remove unnecessary aggression and insults.

every other post is about your experience or qualifications

Enigma: Part Deux

What's the longest route you'll lead on a single 60m rope?

No way, Enigma is way more sane.

I'm still waiting for you to share your personal history and the source of your alleged expertise (aside from a claimed PhD in "science").

I put forward exactly who I am. You hide behind anonymity so you can be an asshole to your heart's content with no repercussions.

So who is "chickenshit"?

you're confusing me with someone else.

Well I certainly wasn't confusing you for a mature human being.

The thing about assholes is that they really don't need an excuse.

My dick is bigger than yours.

You have a dick?
[image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/8/445918-largest_IMG00049-20100321-1203.jpg[/image]

Now I know I'm in the Twilight Zone.

Oh, maybe you DO have a dick.
[image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/5/457285-largest_Dina_with_Tank.jpg[/image]

Well I certainly wasn't confusing you for a mature human being.

The thing about assholes is that they really don't need an excuse.

Ewww, he's creeping on photos now.

He got excited by the pearl necklace

extensive experience and broad expertise

And to leave the "necessary" aggression and insults (which are uncontrolled outflows of the immature ego, like verbal diarrhea).

Her remark bout her dick does scare me a little though.

You have a dick?


Now I know I'm in the Twilight Zone.

Oh, maybe you DO have a dick.

so the answer is

20 meters!

your "im with the rescue! I'm old! I never took a lead fall! I never climb anything longer than 6 pitches! Thus i know everything!" approach is not helping anyone.

With your nickname, profile pic and signature, you give the impression of a professional.

Good answer. I had been intending to mention that rapping down often requires climbing up no more than half of the total rope length carried. But I got distracted by all the unnecessary challenges to my knowledge and expertise by people who reveal little or nothing about their own.

I've never claimed to "know everything". And I never mentioned my experience until my knowledge was challenged.

Since this is a beginners forum, and posters have no basis to discern the relative value of information and opinions shared here, it was my responsibility to give them a basis for comparison - in spite of the continual onslaught of unwarranted attacks on my credibility by largely anonymous people.

I don't "give the impression", I state is as fact. I was a professional outdoor educator, wilderness guide and rock climbing instructor. I was a professional private rock-climbing guide. I have been a professional rigging and rescue instructor, in above-ground and below-ground, rock, water, ice and industrial settings. And I am a professional educator.

As Walter Brennan often said in the Guns of Will Sonnet (1967), "No brag, just fact".

I suspect that some here have more extensive and more varied climbing experience than do I, though it's largely impossible to know that since, as you suggest, many people see the internet as a place to create an alter ego - an avatar - to pretend that they're someone they're not.

I'm not interested in make-believe and never learned to play that game. As one who programmed mainframe computers in 1968 and lived through the history of the internet and WWW, I knew it as a place for sharing reliable information - it's original purpose.

It's a shame that it has so degenerated into a space for fantasy games, virtual social networking (the antithesis of real community), spying, hacking, stalking and encouraging the worst of human behavior (because of its anonymity).

The personal attacks here against anyone expressing a perspective or opinion which challenges those of others, is emblematic of the worst that the internet has to offer.

Like so many "discussion forums", this site could be a valuable place if people behaved as they would in a public setting, where they had to literally stand by their words. But, given the degenerate state of humanity in general and the additional license which an anonymous cyberspace allows - authentic conversation is something "devoutly to be wish'd".

I'm still waiting for you to share your personal history and the source of your alleged expertise (aside from a claimed PhD in "science").

I put forward exactly who I am. You hide behind anonymity so you can be an asshole to your heart's content with no repercussions.

So who is "chickenshit"?

As someone who uses his real name and has a fairly honest profile

If you have climbed for 20 years and have never climbed past your limit on lead, your experience is pretty shallow.

I'm glad you conditioned that statement with "fairly".

Occupation: Professional Climber.

What, pray tell, is a "professional climber" other than some kind of braggart. And why are there no real pictures of you on your profile page?

And I have to wonder just how old (or, rather, young) you are.

Quite the contrary. An impetuous adolescent (or an adolescent adult) strives to discover his limits by constantly pushing at them - if he's lucky, he survives the experience. (The fact that teens and young adults have the highest rate of vehicle accidents is testimony to this.)

A wise man knows and respects his limits and discovers infinite possibility within that boundary - and he lives to pass on his wisdom to those few youth who have ears to hear.

Good answer.

What's so good about it? 60 divided by 2 is 30.

Jay

...should not climb longer stuff than half the rope length, with a good safety margin for wandering routes and such.

The professional climber thing is a joke. I am a mediocre climber

And I have to wonder just how old (or, rather, young) you are.

teens and young adults are also the worst drivers because they have been doing it for less time. The analogy is false however because when you push past your limits in climbing you survive and become a better climber. Pushing past your limits while driving is entirely different.

There are only so many moderate trad routes in the world, hardly a case of infinite possibilities.

Good answer. I had been intending to mention that rapping down often requires climbing up no more than half of the total rope length carried. But I got distracted by all the unnecessary challenges to my knowledge and expertise by people who reveal little or nothing about their own.

I guess you don't use any of that 60m or rope to tie in at each end and the belayer is hugging the rock, and you're content to run out the entire rope and set up a belay station at that point regardless of whether there's any anchorage.

The obvious answer is you climb until you get close to the amount of available rope (hopefully, your belayer is letting you know how much is left), and stop where a good 3-point belay anchor can be built.

That's simul-climbing (often caused by poor planning), but I don't think it's what the OP was asking about.

I've never claimed to "know everything". And I never mentioned my experience until my knowledge was challenged.

Since this is a beginners forum, and posters have no basis to discern the relative value of information and opinions shared here, it was my responsibility to give them a basis for comparison - in spite of the continual onslaught of unwarranted attacks on my credibility by largely anonymous people.

I don't "give the impression", I state is as fact. I was a professional outdoor educator, wilderness guide and rock climbing instructor. I was a professional private rock-climbing guide. I have been a professional rigging and rescue instructor, in above-ground and below-ground, rock, water, ice and industrial settings. And I am a professional educator.

As Walter Brennan often said in the Guns of Will Sonnet (1967), "No brag, just fact".

I suspect that some here have more extensive and more varied climbing experience than do I, though it's largely impossible to know that since, as you suggest, many people see the internet as a place to create an alter ego - an avatar - to pretend that they're someone they're not.

I'm not interested in make-believe and never learned to play that game. As one who programmed mainframe computers in 1968 and lived through the history of the internet and WWW, I knew it as a place for sharing reliable information - it's original purpose.

It's a shame that it has so degenerated into a space for fantasy games, virtual social networking (the antithesis of real community), spying, hacking, stalking and encouraging the worst of human behavior (because of its anonymity).

The personal attacks here against anyone expressing a perspective or opinion which challenges those of others, is emblematic of the worst that the internet has to offer.

Like so many "discussion forums", this site could be a valuable place if people behaved as they would in a public setting, where they had to literally stand by their words. But, given the degenerate state of humanity in general and the additional license which an anonymous cyberspace allows - authentic conversation is something "devoutly to be wish'd".

What's so good about it? 60 divided by 2 is 30.

Jay

Good answer. I had been intending to mention that rapping down often requires climbing up no more than half of the total rope length carried. But I got distracted by all the unnecessary challenges to my knowledge and expertise by people who reveal little or nothing about their own.

I've never claimed to "know everything". And I never mentioned my experience until my knowledge was challenged.

Since this is a beginners forum, and posters have no basis to discern the relative value of information and opinions shared here, it was my responsibility to give them a basis for comparison - in spite of the continual onslaught of unwarranted attacks on my credibility by largely anonymous people.

I don't "give the impression", I state is as fact. I was a professional outdoor educator, wilderness guide and rock climbing instructor. I was a professional private rock-climbing guide. I have been a professional rigging and rescue instructor, in above-ground and below-ground, rock, water, ice and industrial settings. And I am a professional educator.

As Walter Brennan often said in the Guns of Will Sonnet (1967), "No brag, just fact".

I suspect that some here have more extensive and more varied climbing experience than do I, though it's largely impossible to know that since, as you suggest, many people see the internet as a place to create an alter ego - an avatar - to pretend that they're someone they're not.

I'm not interested in make-believe and never learned to play that game. As one who programmed mainframe computers in 1968 and lived through the history of the internet and WWW, I knew it as a place for sharing reliable information - it's original purpose.

It's a shame that it has so degenerated into a space for fantasy games, virtual social networking (the antithesis of real community), spying, hacking, stalking and encouraging the worst of human behavior (because of its anonymity).

The personal attacks here against anyone expressing a perspective or opinion which challenges those of others, is emblematic of the worst that the internet has to offer.

Like so many "discussion forums", this site could be a valuable place if people behaved as they would in a public setting, where they had to literally stand by their words. But, given the degenerate state of humanity in general and the additional license which an anonymous cyberspace allows - authentic conversation is something "devoutly to be wish'd".

Trad: 5.11a
Sport:5.12c
Boulder:V7
Ice:WI4
Aid:A6

So the rest of your profile is also only "fairly honest" - in other words, totally false?

And I have to wonder just how old (or, rather, young) you are.

Not at all. When I got my license at 16, I had three crashes in the first three months - and learned from each. I also spend considerable time at the wheel pushing my limits - doing donuts in the parking lot and deliberately going into tailspins on snowy roads - and have become a far better and more skilled driver because I survived what should have killed me.

In driving, a crash is a failure, even though with modern shoulder belts and air bags one is likely to survive. No experienced race car driver brags about their crashes - only about the races they completed without accident.

Regardless of what some adolescent adults on this forum claim, the goal of traditional climbing has always been to complete a route without falling. The rope and gear is nothing more than an insurance policy that one hopes to never need.

The fact that modern "insurance" is better - dynamic nylon ropes vs sisal and hemp, e.g. - doesn't alter the essential nature of traditional climbing any more than better passenger restraints in cars makes crashing an OK experience.

Failures are excellent learning experiences - if we survive them intact - but they should never be a goal. The goal of any master is to ply their craft without failure.

The imagination of youth is limited to shear volume and intensity of experience and ignores the unlimited variety and nuance of experience, which is the realm of the master.

One can climb the same route a thousand times and have a completely different experience with each ascent, particularly if the climber is focused less on conquering the route and more on experiencing it with every sense and every part of one's being.

In fact, climbing (like anything in life) can be a spiritual experience. Someday, you might realize that.

For climbers, failure is part of the path to mastery. There is no way around it.

No one is going to argue with you that the goal of climbing is to fall. It would be great to never fall, but if you care about improving, which is fine if you do not, you will fall. Every traditional climber of note falls.

Except in the alpine/ long multipitch area, where a failure might as well get you into big problems rather fast.
There i would prefer not to fail, e.g. by fast simulclimbing of the easiest pitches …

qwert

Watch the movie Man On Wire, about Philippe Petit, who walked a wire between the World Trade towers when they were under construction in 1974. In a recent interview, he said that "falling was not part of his reality". He also said that he knew he could complete the walk (in fact, did it three times) - in other words, as a true master of the art, he operated perfectly within his limits.

[image]http://jetcomx.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/man-on-wire-21.jpg[/image]

Someday, grasshopper, you might live into the wisdom of a true Jedi Master. But not likely, if you're unable to listen to the wisdom of those who have completed that journey.

At some point, you're going to have to admit that - at 21 - you know little about anything and that you have a lot to learn from your elders.

But I'm not holding my breath.

Watch the movie Man On Wire, about Philippe Petit, who walked a wire between the World Trade towers when they were under construction in 1974. In a recent interview, he said that "falling was not part of his reality". He also said that he knew he could complete the walk (in fact, did it eight times) - in other words, as a true master of the art, he operated perfectly within his limits. He says that he has never fallen during a performance (and fell only once during practice at Ringling Brothers Circus).

[image]http://jetcomx.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/man-on-wire-21.jpg[/image]

Someday, grasshopper, you might live into the wisdom of a true Jedi Master. But not likely, if you're unable to listen to the wisdom of those who have completed that journey.

At some point, you are going to have to admit that you have some admitted gaps in your experience and don't know as much as you think. Or, you know, you could just resort to ad hominems.

Watch the movie Man On Wire, about Philippe Petit, who walked a wire between the World Trade towers when they were under construction in 1974. In a recent interview, he said that "falling was not part of his reality". He also said that he knew he could complete the walk (in fact, did it eight times) - in other words, as a true master of the art, he operated perfectly within his limits.



Someday, grasshopper, you might live into the wisdom of a true Jedi Master. But not likely, if you're unable to listen to the wisdom of those who have completed that journey.

your wording implies that you think you climb hard…

I never stated that I climb hard, nor did anything I said suggest or imply that. I climb perfectly.

"Hard" is for those with something to prove. Perfection is for true masters.

And simple physical difficulty is the least important determinant of the quality of a climb (or of anything else in life). A monkey can do a difficult climb. A master turns a climb (or any other experience) into a metaphysical event.

Frankly, I surprised you would condone such a daredevil event. I am quite sure his rigging wouldn't be OSHA approved.

At some point you are going to need to stop relying on false analogies and lame turns of phrase if you want people to take you seriously. If you can't see why this analogy is even worse than your last, I don't know how productive this whole internet discussion thing is going to be for you.

He's doing the old "Vermont Side Step" to get out of the current pressure.

Petit actually ended up getting all charges dropped and was given a lifetime pass to the WTC observation deck for his act.

What people who climb merely to prove their physical abilities cannot possibly comprehend is that, when one is climbing to perfection, one is climbing at the pinnacle of performance - even if the grade is 5.4.

It's not the grade that matters, but the mindset and the merging of rock and climber into an indivisible entity and a seamless movement. Climber and rock become one.

Rman, you need to seriously step off your high horse.

You were called out on making an erroneous assertion about the ability to move fast being poor planning, when in actuality it's a necessary skill to do long routes.

I've read a couple of [Petit's] books, one of which is his account of the twin towers walk. It is way more in depth than the movie.
The amazing part of that story is the planning and execution not the walk itself.

Most of us don't need to post our resume. We judge people's expertise by what they post. That's how an online forum works.

It's not about YOUR need. It's about what newbies to this forum need: some basis for judging the worth of various anonymous opinions.
.

Now, go ahead and post my profile.

Smiley to show you I'm not an asshole

Josh's profile
Occupation: Shaper of Young Minds

Man, I'm so glad you're not an asshole.

Seems to me that newbies would be able to figure it out when one person says something and 65 others refute it.

If truth were determined by majority opinion, we would still have slavery, the disenfranchisement of women, sweat shops, and Al Gore would have been president.

"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain

Dude, what isn't wrong with you? Just own up to what you said grow the fuck up.