Hi,

I'm wondering about methods for climbing with people who either can't lead, or aren't comfortable leading/cleaning a route. I'd like to take someone out climbing who I'm afraid will not be comfortable with cleaning the anchors. Is it feasible to simply lead a climb, and then anchor into the anchors up top, and then belay them from there? Then lower them, when they finish the route, and then clean the route yourself?

I hope I'm being clear enough. The main thing I want to be able to do is be efficient while I'm out. Sure, I could lead it for the climber, then let them climb it on top rope, unclipping the rope as they climb up, and then climb it again and clean it. I'm going to try and make the person just learn how to clean the anchors consider it is not hard, but if they're gonna be a sissy about it, what's the best way to handle this apart from me climbing the route twice? If there is a thread with this info already, I'd love just a quick link. I wasn't sure how to search it though


Many thanks,
Michael

If they can't learn the absolute basics of climbing, which includes cleaning anchors, then they should stick to top roping or quit. Any of your other, ahem, "solutions", are just plain ridiculous. (Unless of course she's *really* cute and you have motives beyond climbing!)

Sure, I could lead it for the climber, then let them climb it on top rope, unclipping the rope as they climb up, and then climb it again and clean it.

I do this:


almost every time I take people out who have never climbed before.

It appears I will just be climbing the route twice. I guess it's not a big deal anyways considering they're gonna be 5.8/9's.

Cleaning can be really dangerous. You shouldnt just show someone how to do it and then send them up to clean, someone should be watching them up top too.

Cleaning can be really dangerous. You shouldnt just show someone how to do it and then send them up to clean, someone should be watching them up top too.

Could you go into a little more detail? Having gone through this exact process many times, I don't quite see how cleaning can be 'really' dangerous given that the second is essentially on top rope...

Cheers

LS

When you take new climbers out, you throw your notions of efficiency out of the window, and you plan for a mellow day of climbing. Including, yes, the probability of climbing every route twice.

We disagree then. Every time I take people out who have never climbed before, they get to do all the tasks necessary, including cleaning pro and anchors. That would include cleaning the anchors on a sport route and rethreading for lower (if they demonstrate the proper level of competence).

We disagree then. Every time I take people out who have never climbed before, they get to do all the tasks necessary, including cleaning pro and anchors. That would include cleaning the anchors on a sport route and rethreading for lower (if they demonstrate the proper level of competence).

So you have these people who have never climbed before belay you then as well; or do you have another person there to give you a belay?

Hmmm...

It seems to me that properly and safely teaching someone to clean the anchors on a sport route (I don't know why we're all assuming that it is a sport route, since the OP didn't say so, but let's assume that is what he meant) will eat up as much if not more of your day as just cleaning the route yourself.

So let the "guide for the day" decide which he'd rather do.

If I were in the OP's position, I would make that choice based on what I saw from the n00b. It would be pretty clear, pretty quickly, if the n00b was excited to learn everything possible, and was hooked on climbing. In that case, I would take the time to teach her to clean and lower. If the n00b was just having fun and being kind of a child about it, just wanting to be entertained, I'd quickly clean the routes myself. And if the n00b seemed like she was just not that into climbing, again, I'd just clean the routes myself.

But the OP is not me. The OP sounds like he's a n00b himself. In his case, the OP should be cleaning the routes. I really don't like the idea of someone who's only just barely learned a technique himself trying to coach an even n00bier person through a somewhat tricky process that can go very wrong very fast.

It depends... and I didn't want to get into every possible use case.

However, with absolute first timers and no other experienced people, I always climb with the mental attitude that I am soloing the route.

Mental attitude?

Why not actually solo the climb then and simply bring a tag line to belay up your newer climber?

I thought that's why you bring the grigri?

The first time my girlfriend lowered me on a grigri was one of my scariest moments in climbing.

Remember, if you will, the first time you got on the wall... and just how overwhelming it can be at times.

Most beginners SO much to deal with

- fear of heights
- fear of falling
- learning to trust the harness, the rope, the belayer

Why throw additional things at them like cleaning gear.

Sure it's easy to an experienced climber because they've already learned to overcome the challenges that a beginner faces.

please don't bring yourself or any of your NOOBS to texas area and climb.. out climbing is sensitive enough as it is and if you and your NOOBS smash to the ground at our crags you will most certainly have the closed down for us.. thanks... hey climbingtrash, hows it going??? even tho you are kind of a jerk, i still like your site..

Hmmm...

It seems to me that properly and safely teaching someone to clean the anchors on a sport route (I don't know why we're all assuming that it is a sport route, since the OP didn't say so, but let's assume that is what he meant) will eat up as much if not more of your day as just cleaning the route yourself.

So let the "guide for the day" decide which he'd rather do.

If I were in the OP's position, I would make that choice based on what I saw from the n00b. It would be pretty clear, pretty quickly, if the n00b was excited to learn everything possible, and was hooked on climbing. In that case, I would take the time to teach her to clean and lower. If the n00b was just having fun and being kind of a child about it, just wanting to be entertained, I'd quickly clean the routes myself. And if the n00b seemed like she was just not that into climbing, again, I'd just clean the routes myself.

But the OP is not me. The OP sounds like he's a n00b himself. In his case, the OP should be cleaning the routes. I really don't like the idea of someone who's only just barely learned a technique himself trying to coach an even n00bier person through a somewhat tricky process that can go very wrong very fast.

Cheers,

GO

I don't know why we're assuming the n00b is a female, either.

Josh