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sm0keyglo
Feb 23, 2003, 10:29 PM
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Well I was at my local crag in Boise a few days ago and I happened upon a guy and a girl doing a climb. The guy was leading the route and it was probably a moderate 5.11-to 5.12 climb. He has having a heck of a time climbing it and that was fine, but what was most displeasing to me was the 10+ clipping pole hanging from his harness. I watched his progress briefly and he was using the pole to clip nearly all the bolts. I could not understand why he was even making an attempt at that grade of a climb if he was unable to make an attempt on his own abilities. There were numerous other lower grade climbes available to learn and lead on. I personally sport lead only a 5.10c-5.11, but for me the fear and excitement that comes from leading is what makes it fun and using a clipping pole is not leading. Does anyone else have any inputs??? :?
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nailzz
Feb 23, 2003, 10:47 PM
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To each his own ...
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daisuke
Feb 23, 2003, 10:48 PM
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was the dude clipping from the next bolt down? I personally preffer to lead with the quickdraws in place after a 30 footer that nearly knocked me to china and can understand him... I guess Iīd do that with heavy 11īs if I didnīt have a partner that climbs better than me to set up a route to practice on, because I canīt climb them well enough to lead them properly (as in with enough confidence that Iīll reach the top and get back down with all my gear).
I do agree itīs not very good sportsmanship tho
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duskerhu
Feb 23, 2003, 11:02 PM
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Well sm0keyglo, this is what Sport Climbing is all about!
He'll never be able to (honestly) say that he Onsighted or Flashed that route, but hauling a stick clip and clipping bolts above you in this manner is certainly a viable way to "work" a route safely!
I can almost guarantee you he wanted to get a top-rope on the route, and would then make it his "project" for the day (or part of the day anyway). Once he has a t-r up, he can safely take successive runs up it until he has the faith and confidence that he can do the moves to do it on lead and go for a redpoint.
...and daisuke, why is this NOT "good sportsmanship?"
duskerhu
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jerrygarcia
Feb 23, 2003, 11:11 PM
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In reply to: using a clipping pole is not leading
maybe to him it is? Who defines this? Old people who have climbed(and there are plenty on here) will tell you at one time using (insert new technique/shoe/equipment here) was not traditional. Stop worrying about what other people are doing and enjoy your time outside. He wasnt doing anything unsafe so why should you mind his business?
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w6jxm
Feb 24, 2003, 5:30 AM
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Ever hear of aid climbing? Now I do have a problem with people spraying about how they flashed this or that 12d when all they did was grab the draw and stick clip the next one. How they get up the rock does not matter. Some people like to hangdog. Others toprope. That's fine. Just don't go talking like you sent it if you did not.
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kalcario
Feb 24, 2003, 5:42 AM
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there is no such thing as ethics in sport climbing, next question please
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weaselman
Feb 24, 2003, 3:23 PM
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lol kalcario has the right idea :lol:
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beckerw
Feb 24, 2003, 8:47 PM
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anyone ever been to smith? it is status quo to dial out something on TR before leading it. not personally my style, but it does go at A0. :)
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kman
Feb 24, 2003, 9:02 PM
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Why not just t-r it then? feh :roll:
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cloudbreak
Feb 24, 2003, 9:27 PM
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If he was having fun, and not putting himself or others in danger......then who gives a f**k.
KMAN .....maybe it's not TR'able without leading it to get to anchors!!
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bolder
Feb 24, 2003, 10:27 PM
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I have been witnessing this a lot at Shelf Road the last couple of years. I personnally don't get it, why not stay at a grade that you can free climb? But, each to their own. If you want to drag a stick-clip up a sport route so that you can aid it, more power to you.
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beckerw
Feb 26, 2003, 12:21 AM
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i have had to resort to it before. i simply did not want to leave gear on a route i got over my head on. i thought it was something else (number grade easier), but got shut down repeatedly mid way up. besides, it seems redpoints on the way of the sport climber, and onsights are the way of the traditionalist. I don't know if i would call it cheating either; i certainly didn't tell anyone i had sent the route. i was never aware of a moral absolute that had something to say about "stick clipping."
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mark99
Mar 6, 2003, 12:45 AM
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I am with nailzz "each to there own".
As long as he does not come back bragging about how he did the climb onsight or anything like that it does not bother me.
It is the same as people absailing down and taking a look at the climb before climbing it or even watching someone climb it and taking note of the holds he uses.
At the end of the day it is up to the individual. Personal satisfaction. Personally I would not do it unless the first bolt is rather high up and the crux is at the start (more personal safety).... otherwise nope...
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hammer_
Mar 7, 2003, 12:06 AM
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It's all good as long as no body his getting hurt.
my 2/c
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climbsomething
Mar 7, 2003, 12:57 AM
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A stick-clipping debate! Woo-hoo!
For all the people who think stick-clippers are cheaters, then why don't you just tell them next time, right there, on the spot? Sack up and go over to the guy wielding the 10-foot pole and say "Hey man, your ethics suck and you're not really climbing." Put your money where your mouth is. I'd love to see it.
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cloudbreak
Mar 7, 2003, 1:03 AM
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...nicely said Hillary!
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jt512
Mar 7, 2003, 3:26 AM
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This has probably already been said, but stickclipping (other than the first bolt) is a means to an end, not an end itself. It is a technique to work the route for an eventual redpoint ascent.
-Jay
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upfreak
Mar 7, 2003, 4:53 AM
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A hot debate!
but as was said... "to each his own."
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flying_dutchman
Mar 7, 2003, 5:12 AM
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man, this is why im a trad dude... none of this bull shit
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sm0keyglo
Mar 7, 2003, 5:47 AM
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:wink: Well I finally come back to post on this topic. I started this post as a way to feel out the community (rc.com). Thanks for the inputs really. I was a little surprised, but hey I am better informed now. I have only been climbing about two years, but I have always onsighted or redpointed my climbs. Hey like many of you said " To each his own". See you at the crag, but leave the clipping pole at home! Later :lol:
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elvislegs
Mar 7, 2003, 11:43 PM
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In reply to: man, this is why im a trad dude... none of this bull s___
Brilliant point! But alas I don't ONLY climb trad.
I really don't care what others do in regards to the first bolt. But I'd be willing to take Hillary's dare just for the hell of it.
...that is if there were some money involved. Care to make it interesting??? :D
sm0keyglo What was the name of the climb? At the black cliffs?
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climbsomething
Mar 7, 2003, 11:52 PM
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Elvis: money no, but I would arrange trade via liquid libations. You take my challenge, and if you come out of it with a 10-foot golf-ball retriever pole firmly attached to your small intestine, I win some pumpkin brew! If you come out of it unscathed, I lose, and you score some Tucson-brewed Nimbus Oatmeal Stout.
...And if you enlighten the sporto and change his ways forever, then I'll be your alpine belay slave and sherpa for a season ;) *chuckle*
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jt512
Mar 10, 2003, 6:08 AM
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In reply to: ...but hey I am better informed now...I have only been climbing about two years, but I have always onsighted or redpointed my climbs.
No, actually you are still clueless. Go back and read my other post. The stick clip is used as a means to rehearsing a route in order to eventually redpoint it.
-Jay
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elvislegs
Mar 10, 2003, 3:58 PM
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Oatmeal Stout? You are SO on!
We are brewing a new batch of "Out of Their Gourd Pumpkin Ale" soon actually, not that I'm nervous (I'm pretty fast.)
I'm going sport climbing tomorrow... here's hoping someone is stick clipping.
:wink:
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