hey Ricardo, just curious...what did you guys do about the fixed rope with the core shot when you were done?

im not an aid climebr at all, but wouldnt a piece of tape (athletic ir ducttape) over the gate (locking mechanism) solve the problem????

yeah, or just locking the biner would probly be enough.

yeah, or just locking the biner would probly be enough.

---------------------------------
That's cool ricardo, better then just tieing a bite at the core shot in my opinion. way to look out bro.

were you tied into the anchor seperately from the hauling anchor?

Space hauling allways feels pretty scetch to me.

oh, ok. I guess I can't really visualize your set up, or where the 'vibration" is coming from. I mean when the bag is hanging there docked at the belay it is just motionless right?

tie a follow-through figure-eight directly into the longer of the two haul loops. clip a locker to the shorter haul loop and lock this into the bight of the figure-eight. this is why decent haulbags have different length loops. you can't lose the bag unless the knot comes undone or the rope breaks.
now, when you get the bag to the belay, tie off the haul line on a bomber point, free the haul line from the hauler, and you're good to go. to access the goodies in the bag just unclip the locker and get that short loop out of the way; you'll still have the bag secured.

Thanks for posting this clear description of how NOT to loose your bag.

... wow! -- before anyone gets the "chills" .. the worst that would have happened if made a mistake would have been to loose the load .. it would not have been fatal .. (albeit it would have been VERY uncomfortable!!)

don't kid yourself...

uncomfortable?

bro, if your bag came off the anchor and your bag was connected to either your harnees or the end of your lead line (if soloing)...

YOU AR ECOMPLETELY FVCKED! :shock:

hmmmm.... so you disconnect the haulbag from the haul line completely on every pitch?

Reminds me of a story I once read on this web site...something about a "Flying Blue Whale"....

I would not agree with noshoesnoshirts recomendation, not at all. probly safe enough, but not optimal in my opinion, for several reasons.

'Bone likes the separate let-out line method as opposed to re-tying the haul line short to use the excess as a let-out which Ricardo described.

not allways true psymche,

On the zodiac I used the "haul line slack lower out method." I used my petzl mini traxion to pul the slack through and carry the weight of the haul bag.

if it doesn't need a long lower out line I just use the docking teather which is aboutr 10 ft long.

I would not agree with noshoesnoshirts recomendation, not at all. probly safe enough, but not optimal in my opinion, for several reasons.

First it sounds like he is hanging the bag of the anchor directly with the haul rope. try this with heavy bags and you'll shortly realize that you just screwed yourself. Much smarter to use a seperate docking line with a load relase knot like the Munter-Mule that can be released under tension. This is a fundememntal self-rescue skill and should be common knowledge for anyone heading up on to a big wall for this reason.

Second, I use a Petzl swivel. Which would be imposible to rig if you were tying the rope directly into the haul bag straps.

Third, nylon on nylon is not a good thing where there is potential movement and friction in the system...which there most definately is/can be when hauling. For this same reason harness manufacturers recoment NOT tieing directly into the Belay loop of a harness. At the very least you are going to cause excesive wear and tear to both your haulbag strap and the rope.

Fourth, I see the potential for rope damage trying to haul your bag past a ledge or roof lip.

Fifth, you are not going to easily beable to seperate your haul bag from the haul rope....which is inevitabley neccisary sometimes during a big wall climb. Once that knot has been weighted and hauled on it is going to take some time and effort to get it undone should you need to for some reason. Which given "Murphey's Law" you definately will.

as for the knot seizing up, i've never had a problem with it, but i've always hauled on a fat 11mm. and it seems the knot would be just as likely to seize when loaded on a biner.

edited to add
wallress;
i am talking about loading the knot. if you set it up like i described, you'll notice the load is distributed pretty evenly between straps due to the different lengths. the figure-eight loads the long strap and also the 'biner, which loads the short strap.

Avoid using certain wiregate biners (BD Neutrino) in double-biner situations like powerpoints. The other biner can force the wiregate open when the rig is weighted.

: Consider buying and using a rope protector. It could (have) save(d) a life if used on a fixed line (on p2 of the Trip). Fish's Grain Tamer is super; there are probably others.

Hey noshoesnoshirt-

I've always used a locker. Seemed simpler. But now that I think about it, when I disconnect the line from the bag, I almost always end up untying the knot anyways. So maybe your style has merit? I do have one question for you though. What do you do when you want to tie the bag off short so you can use the tail as a lower out?

Space hauling allways feels pretty scetch to me.

In the photo, I have just rappeled my haul line (Mark of Zorrow pitch, Zodiac). Before taking the shot I retied into the extra slack on my leadline (green), beacuse I am scared to hang on the haulline for too long...a fear I can't seem to shake.

Some questions about the picture, if you don't mind:

-Why did you have extra slack at the tail end of your lead line?
-Is the daisy just directed through the upper left bolt to the white line or is there a seperate sling? Or is it clipped into a pocket.
-Did you haul from just the single bolt? Or where did you haul from?

Oh, I love pictures of aid belay set ups. This gets a vote from me.

My safety tip of the day-

Befor ecutting the bags loose be absolutely sure the haul line is not rapped around something or caught in any way. This weekend we had an issue with the bags getting tangled with another parties fixed rope...sucky.

For camping-style walls: Bring a spare headlamp - with the small, economical options, almost no reason not to. Even a cheesy pocket or keychain flashlite could be a boon.

i'm using a tikka, so its really low profile.

That's what I use too. Just a warning...It opens up really easily

Diesel Smoke,
Spach hauling seems sketchy to me only because one person is directly attatched to the haul rope (with a back up of course) so IF something did happen to the hauler...that guy would be essentialy f'cked in the ass. I don't see how it makes it any saver as it is the same set up as a regular haul but with the 2nd clipped to the slack of the haul line. That is if we are talking about the same thing?

SToD

If you are rapping down on your fixed lead line to free a bag (or rapping down it for any reason for that matter) triple check to make sure that you are not on the short end of the rope. Pay attention to the end of your rope, and keep a hand below the Gri Gri so that you can feel the end of the rope come up if you're not able to look at it. If it's dark or clustered, and there's quite a bit of spare out, it can be easy to botch this. Nearly lost someone close to me this me this way...

A pair of lightweight polypropylene liner gloves don't take much room and can help keep hands functional.

Streaks of black lichen will become watercourses when it rains.

SToTD

If your portaledge doesn't have a grommeted hole in the center of the bed, make one there. Same with the bottom of your haul bag. Economical grommet kits can be found at home improvement, hardware and some craft stores.

(AT&T works pretty well on EC & WC).

Does anyone have any experience bringing latex gloves help to keep your hands functioning? No insulation, but I wondered if keeping the liner dry might give enough insulation to keep you dexterous enough to bail?

My experience with latex gloves as windblockers was that they tend to slightly restrict circulation in the hands. So, they made my hands colder than if I hadn't had them on.

PS: Glad you're in one piece, bone - looks like it was a total wash for ya. Happy travels...

Always bring two ropes incase you must bail.

i'm always paranoid that i'm going to thread my grigri backwards when soloing .. so before i set-off on lead (and while still backed up by a long sling to tbe belay) .. i'll test the grigri by letting it take my weight .. (as if i'd just fallen) ..

you can then be sure its on right ..

.. i've been told that most grigri failures (when soloing) have been due to mis-threaded setups.. but i have no data to back that up.

Absolutely!

I spent my first big wall bivy in slings b/c of a headlamp that lept from from my partners helmet clips.

I got beaned in the head with rope on the LT raps, sending my headlamp batteries earthward. Glad that I had a spare that time.

The key chain LED never leaves the little pocket in my chackbag.

Bonus SToD: Take a long bit of cord or a double length runner and leash your headlamp to yourself...especially if it's your only one.

.....
Also, what is with the proliferation of these toy LED lamps (Petzl Tikka et al)? They really suck for wayfinding, and I've seen them in action (read: failing to illuminate sufficiently) more than once. Petzl Zoom used to be the standard, but trends went toward smaller lamps and more fledgling LED technology. I'm glad to see some more stout offerings by Petzl (Myo, etc.) and BD (Vectra IQ, etc.) available.
.....
Cheers...

Wrong tools for the job at hand, that's all. The LED headlamps are there for two main reasons, brightness and battery life. The side effect is that they don't have the range required for route finding. Great for campsite, suck at route finding.

pmyche might agree w/ you and I both if I add that proud sends can come from only being able to see the next move. :wink:

If I could have seen more than 5 feet in front of myself, I might have understood what I was in for sooner.