I haven't seen or heard of it happening, but the only reason for this, I believe, is that those who fall often -- ie, sport climbers -- don't back clip, and those who back clip -- ie, some long-time trad climbers -- don't fall often.

To me, the danger is obvious. You can easily picture how the rope could unclip if back clipped; indeed, as I said above, I've seen a situation in which I think the rope would most likely have unclipped, quite possibly from multiple biners, had the leader actually fallen. Furthermore, you can replicate the mechanism by just flicking a rope that has been backclipped across the the gate of a biner by hand. This danger is widely recognized, to the point, that essentially no sport climber backclips, and consequently there are no cases of unclipping to observe.

-Jay

I haven't seen or heard of it happening, but the only reason for this, I believe, is that those who fall often -- ie, sport climbers -- don't back clip, and those who back clip -- ie, some long-time trad climbers -- don't fall often.

To me, the danger is obvious. You can easily picture how the rope could unclip if back clipped; indeed, as I said above, I've seen a situation in which I think the rope would most likely have unclipped, quite possibly from multiple biners, had the leader actually fallen. Furthermore, you can replicate the mechanism by just flicking a rope that has been backclipped across the the gate of a biner by hand. This danger is widely recognized, to the point, that essentially no sport climber backclips, and consequently there are no cases of unclipping to observe.

-Jay

Well, the idea that nobody ever backclips--and that is why there are no reported instances of unclipping the rope in a backclipped fall is an interesting theory, but it is nothing more than that.

My theory is that people do backclip and fall frequently with no bad outcomes reported, because backclipping is really not such a big deal.

Curt

I haven't seen or heard of it happening, but the only reason for this, I believe, is that those who fall often -- ie, sport climbers -- don't back clip, and those who back clip -- ie, some long-time trad climbers -- don't fall often.

To me, the danger is obvious. You can easily picture how the rope could unclip if back clipped; indeed, as I said above, I've seen a situation in which I think the rope would most likely have unclipped, quite possibly from multiple biners, had the leader actually fallen. Furthermore, you can replicate the mechanism by just flicking a rope that has been backclipped across the the gate of a biner by hand. This danger is widely recognized, to the point, that essentially no sport climber backclips, and consequently there are no cases of unclipping to observe.

-Jay

Yes, except your theory is wrong on its face because it is a fact that people don't fall frequently onto backclipped bolts. That sport climbers don't backclip is not a theory. They don't.

-Jay

Nuh uh pal, you can't get away with that kind of assertion after all of the bullsh!t you ask of everyone else who makes any kind of statement: "Where is the proof Buddy?" Show me the research, and I'm not talking about a "how to" book, I want multiple examples of PUBLISHED PEER REVIEWED JOURNAL ARTICLES! Otherwise by your own standards we can safely assume that you are talking crap. After all, that seems to be the only way you will accept any information from anyone else.

Or is it one standard for JT and another for everyone else?

I am inclined to disagree with your assertion here since many n00bs, fresh out of the gym, do go sport climbing without having any real idea what they are doing. And--they do fall, without even knowing what the hell a "backclip" is.

You, yourself have posted about observing such n00bs in action many times.

I think the truth is that the living room party trick where you unclip a rope from a carabiner held firmly in your hand does not represent what happens in the real world of climbing.

Gentlemen, lets explore this issue with our heart of hearts.

You are stranded on a desert island.

But you are not alone.

A lovely boulderer chickey (from boulder, but importantly incapable of speech due to whatever trauma, therefore still attractive) in a prana top is there with you.

AND She is hhhooootttt.

[snip]

FUCT climbers are advised to have their hospitalization insurance premiums paid-up, and will have to sign a waiver drafted by Allan Dershewitz.

I must now issue my most profound and final comment on the topic at hand.

Whatever.

Curt

I think after Kate's post, we can all go home.

-Jay

Dang, how did you escape from my killfile? Well, since you're out...

You want research? OK. Public notice: I'm hereby recruiting volunteer subjects for the First UnClipping Trial ever conducted in a scientifically rigorous manner. The FUCT will be a single-blind trial of the relative danger of back-clipping vs. normal clipping. 1000 climbers will each take 100 falls from various pre-detemined heights above a bolt under controlled conditions. On each fall the bolt will either have been pre-clipped normally or back-clipped by study personnel. The bolt will be hidden from view from the climber by a custom device so that the FUCT climber cannot alter his fall in response to whether the bolt is backclipped or normally clipped. FUCT climbers are advised to have their hospitalization insurance premiums paid-up, and will have to sign a waiver drafted by Allan Dershewitz.

So, Ajclay, are you ready to volunteer to be one of the FUCT climbers? It's for a good cause.

-Jay

Well, you obviously have not paid any attention to the way they test gear have you? Are you asking me and everyone else to believe that they test ropes for fall ratings by dropping people? Idiot!

No tests published = JT full of sh!t

It's your standard buddy, so provide some evidence or STFU!

Funny how you would come up with a FUCT Trial, did that come from your head? I always thought you were FUCT in the Head! :lol:

Well, you obviously have not paid any attention to the way they test gear have you? Are you asking me and everyone else to believe that they test ropes for fall ratings by dropping people? Idiot!

Backclipping is the sport climbing name for a longstanding TRAD rule. (agreed that it is rarely an issue on modern trad climbing, except for slab)

The rule originated with single biner clips to a pin. If you backclip, you can pinch the rope between the biner and the rock. Or you can allow the rope to bind in a loop around the body of the carabiner. Unclipping didn't become much of an issue until the advent of bent gate biners.

Well, you obviously have not paid any attention to the way they test gear have you? Are you asking me and everyone else to believe that they test ropes for fall ratings by dropping people? Idiot!

No tests published = JT full of sh!t

It's your standard buddy, so provide some evidence or STFU!