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altelis
May 13, 2005, 2:55 PM
Post #26 of 34
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fiend-
not sure i completely agree with everything in there, but damn, it was an amazing post....sure wish i could rate today....well done
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fiend
May 14, 2005, 1:26 AM
Post #27 of 34
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In reply to: That said, I'm off to sport climb the Grand Wall.
My ropegun actually mentioned that it was interesting to watch me do some of the moves... apparently I should have had a crashpad up there with me.
If I can roped boulder (hey, they do it at the PBC all the time) 9 pitches of one of Canada's best known 'trad' climbs, then dingus can trad sport!
It should be noted that the only people who can't use this mentality crossover are guys climbing rock with ice tools. That's just dumb.
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joneiche
May 14, 2005, 2:03 AM
Post #28 of 34
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In reply to: dingus, Just got back from the Splitter Camps and this Q came up there as well. It was in ref to a bolted face climb with 15-20 feet between bolts. I call routes like that bolted face climbs and would describe them as trad. Is there anyone out there who would call Bachar-Yerian or Doub-Griffith a sport climb? I don't think so. It's easier for me to put sport climbing in a box by defining it as bolt protected routes where falls are short and rarely dangerous, working a route is accepted and there is no shame in multiple attempts or clipping pre-hung draws. Further to your Q, I'd say that you did an onsight of a sport route, a rare occurance these days. Bravo! Mal
Totaly off topic, but I was wondering how the splitter camp went. How did the group from Paradise fair (I am really after the goods on Hamer)?
As far as the debate on trad vs. sport I would say that committment has everything to do with trad...i.e. the third flatiron. We can all mostly agree that it is easy, and yes every 165' there is a monster eye-bolt, but we still must assume a certian level of committment when hopping on the thing. Sport is a fun day at the crag. Trad is really getting inside what it is that you are doing and risking yourself in the process.
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tattooed_climber
May 14, 2005, 8:10 AM
Post #29 of 34
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i always define trad as "removable pro"...anything else you are soloing, sport, or aiding....plain and simple to me
course...there;s always mixed climbs with both bolts and trad placements....a bit of these types of climbs in squamish..with a end ran out section...a few bolts as only pro...
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golsen
May 14, 2005, 4:45 PM
Post #30 of 34
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Dingus,
shame on you! In a differrent post you said us old climbers shouldnt tell newer ones what the definitions of their words are and this sounds like you are going against your own advice. I think you had a good day "ROCK CLIMBING"...There, that was simple huh? No debates, not ranting about trad this sport that......I doubt anyones panties are in a bunch if you saay that.
By the way? Would your friend have succeeded if someone hadnt used a rope to place said bolts? Does that mean that each and every ascent has aid involved? I vaguely remember Bachar (I think) indicating after the Bachar-Yerian that since he used hooks to hang and palce said bolts that all subsequent ascents are now aid? Are you sure you didnt aid that route? hmmmmmmmm :roll: kind of makes you wonder......
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jt512
May 14, 2005, 6:29 PM
Post #31 of 34
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In reply to: i always define trad as "removable pro"...anything else you are soloing, sport, or aiding....plain and simple to me ...
What's it like to always be wrong, anyway?
-Jay
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fiend
May 14, 2005, 6:47 PM
Post #32 of 34
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Registered: May 25, 2001
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In reply to: Chuff chuff chuff huff puff chuff chuff, chuff? |
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gunksgoer
May 14, 2005, 6:52 PM
Post #33 of 34
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Registered: Sep 27, 2004
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In reply to: i always define trad as "removable pro"... anything else you are soloing, sport, or aiding....plain and simple to me course...there;s always mixed climbs with both bolts and trad placements....a bit of these types of climbs in squamish..with a end ran out section...a few bolts as only pro...
I agree with jt.
Soloing is a traditional way to climb, fyi. so is aid. And "mixed" routes are where theres both rock and ice, and the climber is using ice tools (adam stack was an exeption). unless theres an ice column on the top of that climb in squamish, its not a "mixed" route in the way you are reffering to it. Its a trad route with a bolt on it.
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justus
May 17, 2005, 2:05 PM
Post #34 of 34
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Registered: May 8, 2004
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Regardless of what many have said in response to Dingus's post, this is an important (relative to any discussion on climbing) differentiation to be made. Especially for those of us trying to push grades on both trad and sport. Now don't flame me with "pushing grades is for meat heads--just climb". Climbing IS for fun but that doesn't mean we can't still push ourselves.
Anyway, Were a runout bolted climb to be called sport then it would place some people, those accustomed to Rumney-like sport, in a dangerous position. Imagine being used to pushing yourself on a bolts every 7ft sport climb and then hopping on some deathclimb just because you figure you only need quickdraws for it.
Maybe we need to add an S to sport climbing grades, something like 5.12bS. Then you could really go wild with some grades: VII 5.11c 5.13dS A3. It would make everyone happy AND increase the length of ratings: a good thing IMO.
Justus
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