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nebo
May 18, 2005, 11:30 PM
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I'm done too--this is my last viewing and post to this forum. Thanks all for participating.
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dingus
May 18, 2005, 11:37 PM
Post #177 of 315
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In reply to: But to make all of these judgements based on a website for a film, and then try to contact child services and get people's kids taken away has left me with such a level of disgust that I really haven't totally processed yet, it is just too big.
You aren't the only one storm, but obviously the most affected.
To those of you who crossed the bounds of virtual opinion and attempted to project your remote opinions into the physical world of someone else's kids, I can only wish that some day you get as good as you have given.
And I mean that from the bottom of my heart.
DMT
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healyje
May 19, 2005, 12:38 AM
Post #178 of 315
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In reply to: My position is that I'm neither for nor against people teaching solo climbing to young people.
Storm, while I heartily agree with many of your beliefs and goals, I'll close reiterating my personal belief that soloing is something that people of any age should discover and explore on their own terms and in their own time - that it is an inappropriate educational tool or "rite of passage" if for no other reason than preserving what might be one of the more simple and "pure" exercises in self awareness and personal responsibility a person can experience in today's increasingly complex and interconnected world...
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pru
May 19, 2005, 2:59 PM
Post #179 of 315
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Storm, your family is absolutely beautiful and your lifestyle is enviable. As you may have guessed, rockclimbing.com is frequented primarily by people who are complete dumbasses. The fact that some of them crossed the line and took action that could have ripped your family apart is reprehensible. It seems to me that these people have no lives of their own. I'm very glad to hear that CPS isn't going to make a mistake here.
Peace to you and yours.
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graniteboy
May 19, 2005, 4:03 PM
Post #180 of 315
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In reply to: My kids were actually scared. Raven and Jome started packing knives and my four year girl kept asking if the Rock Climbers were coming to get us.
Right....it's the Climbers who are the bad guys here....Funny that you would "share" all this stuff with the kids (with your own "interpretation", telling the kids that the climbers were coming to get them.....), and in the process, scare the hell out of them........your personality type is coming through loud and clear from that scared kids statement....David Koresh behaved in much the same way you are....scare the followers into believing that the bad guys and the apocalypse are coming to get them.....and that you're their only salvation....
You have, of course, turned this whole thing around in your own head to make yourself believe that you are the "victim" here...because, with your personality disorders, you cannot see beyond the confines of your own ego...what this is really about, and what we called the cops on you about, is your children's safety, which you habitually compromised and refuse to see.
I quit. You can talk to CPS and the D.A. when they show up, "storm", er...I mean Gerald. You belong in a mental institution, where you can't hurt your kids or screw their brains up anymore. But that's a pretty common occurrence for the L.A. area, enit???
Have fun chewing on twigs and lice... :lol: but don't pressure your kids and wife to solo anymore.
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crimpandgo
May 19, 2005, 4:25 PM
Post #181 of 315
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In reply to: In reply to: My kids were actually scared. Raven and Jome started packing knives and my four year girl kept asking if the Rock Climbers were coming to get us. Right....it's the Climbers who are the bad guys here.... Funny that you would "share" all this stuff with the kids (with your own "interpretation", telling the kids that the climbers were coming to get them.....), and in the process, scare the hell out of them........your personality type is coming through loud and clear from that scared kids statement....David Koresh behaved in much the same way you are....scare the followers into believing that the bad guys and the apocalypse are coming to get them.....and that you're their only salvation.... You have, of course, turned this whole thing around in your own head to make yourself believe that you are the "victim" here...because, with your personality disorders, you cannot see beyond the confines of your own ego...what this is really about, and what we called the cops on you about, is your children's safety, which you habitually compromised and refuse to see. I quit. You can talk to CPS and the D.A. when they show up, "storm", er...I mean Gerald. You belong in a mental institution, where you can't hurt your kids or screw their brains up anymore. But that's a pretty common occurrence for the L.A. area, enit??? Have fun chewing on twigs and lice... :lol: but don't pressure your kids and wife to solo anymore.
I hate to tell you bro, but Storm is his kids only salvation.... Well besides his wife and Faith of course.... I tell my kids on a daily basis that family is the only people you can truely trust to be their when you need them the most. Friends come and go and folks like you, well, I think your posts speak for themselves.
Secondly, You assume that Storm "told" them about this stuff. Maybe they read it for themselves. Did you think of that? This is an open site you know. Your slandering can be read by all. I have kids at a similar age and I would have my kids read these posts and let them make their own decision about how they feel. I gaurantee you my kids would be horrified by what they have been reading. at age 11 they are perfectly capable of understanding what they think is right and wrong in this world and are very capable of forming their own opinions.
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elvislegs
May 19, 2005, 4:44 PM
Post #182 of 315
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In reply to: In reply to: But to make all of these judgements based on a website for a film, and then try to contact child services and get people's kids taken away has left me with such a level of disgust that I really haven't totally processed yet, it is just too big. You aren't the only one storm, but obviously the most affected. To those of you who crossed the bounds of virtual opinion and attempted to project your remote opinions into the physical world of someone else's kids, I can only wish that some day you get as good as you have given. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart. DMT
word to that dingus.
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jammer
May 19, 2005, 5:13 PM
Post #183 of 315
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: But to make all of these judgements based on a website for a film, and then try to contact child services and get people's kids taken away has left me with such a level of disgust that I really haven't totally processed yet, it is just too big. You aren't the only one storm, but obviously the most affected. To those of you who crossed the bounds of virtual opinion and attempted to project your remote opinions into the physical world of someone else's kids, I can only wish that some day you get as good as you have given. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart. DMT word to that dingus.
Agree.
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corpse
May 19, 2005, 5:17 PM
Post #184 of 315
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Stay at home moms have Days of Our Lives.
Climbers at work have rc.com :-)
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dynosore
May 19, 2005, 5:21 PM
Post #185 of 315
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In reply to: I hate to tell you bro, but Storm is his kids only salvation.... Well besides his wife and Faith of course.... I tell my kids on a daily basis that family is the only people you can truely trust to be their when you need them the most. Friends come and go and folks like you, well, I think your posts speak for themselves.
Sounds like your trying to brainwash your kids. Tell that to kids whose parents abuse them. The best thing I ever did was get away from my family. I trust my few close friends infinitely more than my parents.....
What type of whack job calls himself "Storm" anyways :?: A legend in his own mind perhaps.
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jpdreamer
May 19, 2005, 5:32 PM
Post #186 of 315
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I rather like the names Storm, Raven, and Jinji. Particularly Jinji. A hell of a lot better than Matilda anyway.
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micahmcguire
May 19, 2005, 5:43 PM
Post #187 of 315
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"I hate to tell you bro, but Storm is his kids only salvation.... Well besides his wife and Faith of course.... I tell my kids on a daily basis that family is the only people you can truly trust to be their when you need them the most. Friends come and go and folks like you, well, I think your posts speak for themselves. "
And I hate to keep this fire burning, but I'm still going to have to call bullspit on this one. You telling your kids daily that they can trust their own family is fine, but not all families are trustworthy (obviously). Here in AK we recently prosecuted a couple of parents who were beating their children with rubber hoses, starving them, making them live in cages or tied to trees outside like dogs, and neglecting to give them much-needed medical care (I wonder when the last time Ravin et. al had proper medical, dental, optical, etc. check-ups? I know they were all born with just their mother and father present, which is quite needlessly risky in and of itself). These people were "family" for the children, but they were the last people in the world the children ought to trust.
In an ideal world, family should be what you said-people who will care for you no matter what and be there for you through thick and thin....but this is not always the case. And in the case of the Talifero family, I suspect that the parents cannot be trusted. I don't doubt that they love their kids. I don't doubt that they want to make their kids into what they perceive as being strong, healthy, and self-reliant people. But I doubt that they are using (or are capable of using) good judgement when it comes to taking unneccessary risks with their childrens lives.
I've heard alot of people equate the type of free-soloing that Gerald aka "Storm" (sheesh) is training his children to perform to obviously safer sports like toproped climbing, sailing (by the man himself), etc. The obvious difference here is that when you are free-soloing, one slip could very easily mean death. This is obviously not the case with the other "extreme" sports mentioned here. Even skydiving has a very low accident rate-and it is because of the use of proper equipment and training. Climbing is a sport that, in order to actually be "safe" requires equipment and training as well. To climb without this equipment and training is unsafe, just like walking on a high-line with no net is unsafe, or wandering around on the wing of a flying airplane is unsafe. People can still be good at doing these risky stunts, but that does not make them "safe." I still shake my head when I read those posts on this thread that actually have the gall to compare the dangers of soloing with those of toproped climbing. Are you smoking crack?? Of course soloing is much, much more dangerous. Geeze!
Perhaps as serious than the free-soloing is the fact that Gerald allowed Jijee's four children to be born without the presence of any medically trained personell. Fortunately for Jinjee and their kids, everything went fine. What if one of them had presented in a breech position? Would Gerald have known what to do? Would he have known what to do to prevent the aspiration of meconium should that have been a problem? What if the child were stillborn, would have have had the proper equipment to try and revive it? Did Gerald examine the placenta after it presented to make sure there weren't any problems with that? And what if his wife had begun bleeding uncontrollably, or needed a C-section to remove the child? What are his credentials? Would he have known what kind of complications, however unlikely, might arise? Would he have even let her seek professional treatment if it were required? Or would he have thought that she was faking it, just like Jinjee thought that Raven was faking her terror on that 7-story freesolo? Does he even have EMT or equivalent training? Jesus man! I can understand the hypothetical beauty of having such an intimate family moment at home instead of in a hospital, but not even to have a midwife or even an EMT present....sounds like he was playing the odds to me. That is recklessness, and for whose sake? Probably his own, to preserve his sense of "what is natural." Damn hippies.
And I don't buy it for a second when Gerald says "I don't teach my kids to free solo anymore, and haven't for five years." Bull-ass-crap. I saw recent pictures of your wife and daughter free-soloing. We all did. Your wife wrote that you have been training your children to climb without ropes since "before they could walk." And you don't teach kids to free-solo anymore? How can you expect me to believe that obvious lie? And what's with letting your kids "pack knives?" Are you encouraging them to resort to violence on your behalf when CPS shows up?
The more I hear, the more I feel these children are in imminent danger. Lets just hope they haven't been suckered into any suicide pacts or anything.
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corpse
May 19, 2005, 5:50 PM
Post #188 of 315
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I think they have cool names too - but this is coming from a guy that named his daughter Paris.
Hey Storm, how about posting the original pics for some of these people. It would be interesting to see the actual terrain, undistorted. I know my kids have gone up some crappy loose 4th class stuff with me and without me.. Where a fall would have resulted in quite a few scrapes and bruises, or broken bones I suppose, if they rolled 50 feet down a pebble-laden choss pile.
I have never liked the idea of exploiting kids for a profit.. Instead of picking on someone that has different values as us, who may be exploiting their kids a bit, perhaps you should be picking on the corporations that are exploiting kids (making commercials) to sell crap to the other kids (Watching the tv). 2 pops a day and a couple twinkies, or vegan diet? I would think the vegan diet would leave you much healthier.. I can't stand veggie/vegan diets, as I'm a hardcore carnivore, but the fact is they are making positive choices there. Go on a witch hunt for moms that give their kids cold medicine to put em to bed sooner.
edit:
Yeah, packin knives is definitely spooky. Maybe the kids are packing because they don't trust dad can really protect them? Troubling for sure.. I agree with the one comment too - building fear in children can make the kids trust more out of, well, fear. Well, not "trust", just not question. And why would the kids think "climbers are coming to get us".
Storm just discovered the site not long ago, and I can't imagine his just letting his younger kids visit rc.com (he's so involved, right?). I wouldn't let my 11 or 8 yr old visit this site, too much adult stuff on here.
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nomorec4
May 19, 2005, 5:56 PM
Post #189 of 315
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: But to make all of these judgements based on a website for a film, and then try to contact child services and get people's kids taken away has left me with such a level of disgust that I really haven't totally processed yet, it is just too big. You aren't the only one storm, but obviously the most affected. To those of you who crossed the bounds of virtual opinion and attempted to project your remote opinions into the physical world of someone else's kids, I can only wish that some day you get as good as you have given. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart. DMT word to that dingus.
I'll give that statement a third.
What I did learn from all these self-righteous a-holes is that I mistakenly thought I was had loving, caring father who went out of his way to show and share with me the things that make life worth living. All my friends were infinitely jealous, as I rolled the dice in the name of fun. Skiing (w/o helmet) at 5, riding dirt bikes at 9 (no real protection other than helmet), driving a tractor at 10 on the farm, Longs Peak at 11(homestretch is a little dangerous by the standards were applying to Storm isn't it), water skiing, cliff diving, etc.............
Now I realize I was being abused and endangered :shock:
How far our country has fallen. :(
Storm,
I am sure that this experience has probably only solidified your feelings about what is wrong with our society. You are not alone here either. I commend you for keeping a civil tone and trying to reason with irrational busy bodies. Live your life! Love your family! Ignore the fools!
Good Day,
Sean
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pru
May 19, 2005, 6:17 PM
Post #190 of 315
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In reply to: blah blah blah |
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kixrox
May 19, 2005, 6:28 PM
Post #191 of 315
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graniteboy you are an idiot as is everyone else who is critical of this family.
how can you all sit in judgement based on pix on a website? calling child protective services on a loving family? what comes around idiots.......
Many Blessings to your family Storm.
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crimpandgo
May 19, 2005, 6:53 PM
Post #192 of 315
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In reply to: In reply to: I hate to tell you bro, but Storm is his kids only salvation.... Well besides his wife and Faith of course.... I tell my kids on a daily basis that family is the only people you can truely trust to be their when you need them the most. Friends come and go and folks like you, well, I think your posts speak for themselves. Sounds like your trying to brainwash your kids. Tell that to kids whose parents abuse them. The best thing I ever did was get away from my family. I trust my few close friends infinitely more than my parents..... What type of whack job calls himself "Storm" anyways :?: A legend in his own mind perhaps.
I am not brainwashing them. Its a simple fact in most normal everyday lives that your family unit is the foundation of our lives.
As I stated in previous posts and you have re-stated, there are obvious exceptions. Those exceptions need to be dealt with appropriately.
I simply contest that you cannot judge if this situation being debated falls into the exception category simply based on info you have seen via an internet site. If you react simply to what you read, than you equally contribute to the wrongdoings of our society as you are trying to protect against.
Last time I checked, our society was based on the idea that you were innocent until proven guilty. At least get personal/physical proof before slinging a man's name in the mud. And as other have said, remember what goes around comes around.
And lastly, who gives a F*ck what someone names themselves. I have come across some pretty freaky people in my time. Last time I checked they had pretty normal names. Matter of fact most of your really freaky people are known for "blending" into society really well. That is why they remain undetected for long period of times.
Don't judge a book by its cover. At least do your research and back your accusations up.
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taualum23
May 19, 2005, 7:20 PM
Post #194 of 315
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Bungee jumping is a rite of passage?
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the_pirate
May 19, 2005, 7:24 PM
Post #195 of 315
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In reply to: I tell my kids on a daily basis that family is the only people you can truely trust to be their when you need them the most.
That's what Cain said to Able.
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micahmcguire
May 19, 2005, 7:27 PM
Post #196 of 315
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what if the pics showed the parents snorting cocaine near their kids? would that be enough to call the authorities? what if the pictures showed the kids being sexually exploited? would that be sufficient? These pictures, and the descriptions that go with them, indicate that theparents are placing their children in harm's way. This is wrong, wrong, wrong; I don't care how you were raised or how crappy your folks were. What if instead of free-soloing, they were encouraging their kids to run across highways through rush hour traffic to inmprove their courage and coordination? What would you apologists think then?
Like I have said a few times, if there is nothing bad going on, then the professionals in Ventura County whose job it is to investigate situations of possible child endangerment will decide that nothing requires their intervention. If that is the case, no skin off anyone's nose, no harm, no foul. I truly hope this is the case. However, if they do find evidence of wanton endangerment, and do find sufficient cause to place the children in protective custody, then thank goodness myself and others involved in this thread had the guts to do something instead of just watch from the sidelines. What if our actions result in the prevention of a child's death? Will we be justified then? What if we read in the paper tommorow about Raven falling to her death while doing one of these solos? Should we have done something when we could? I'm not going to wait until one of them dies to do something.
My point is, by referring this family to CPS, I have by no means garunteed that the family will be broken up. All I have done is to alert an agency whose job it is to FIND OUT FOR SURE. What is wrong with finding out for sure? If there's no smoke, there's no fire. One more time for clarification-
If there's no smoke, there's no fire.
I do not know for sure; I have merely stumbled upon suspicious evidence (and photos with descriptions are reasonable sources of suspicion) and passed that evidence along.
Regardless of how big an asshole you think I am by doing this, it is actually my job. As a paramedic, I am required by law to report suspected cases of child abuse, neglect, and endangerment. Its not my passion, I don't go on witch hunts to try and split up families, its not a hobby of mine-IT'S MY JOB! If I treat a child with burns that look like they were done with the butt of a cigarette, I make a report of it. If I find suspicious bruising on a child, I report it. If I find that a parent has been deliberately placing their child in a recklessly dangerous situation-including things as simple as not requiring their child to wear a seat belt while driving or life-jacket while boating, I am BOUND BY LAW TO REPORT IT! I don't physically break up the family, I simply pass along pertinant information.
If there is no reason to remove the children into protective custody, then they will not be removed. Trust that the professionals who work for CPS will do their job and ascertain this for themselves.
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bvb
May 19, 2005, 7:28 PM
Post #197 of 315
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In reply to: Bungee jumping is a rite of passage?
dude, trust me, those guys ain't bungee jumping.
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micahmcguire
May 19, 2005, 7:42 PM
Post #198 of 315
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that looks pretty rough on the ankles to me. I think I'll report it to my supervisor.....har har
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the_pirate
May 19, 2005, 7:42 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Bungee jumping is a rite of passage? dude, trust me, those guys ain't bungee jumping.
It's a piece of vine.
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dingus
May 19, 2005, 7:49 PM
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In reply to: I am BOUND BY LAW TO REPORT IT!
Where do you work and who is your supervisor.
Put your money where your mouth is big guy... You ready to stand up for you actions?
I'm serious, post up or get off the high horse.
DMT
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