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tattooed_climber
Jun 24, 2005, 2:41 AM
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i've used both this last ice season and i'm going have to buy my first axe set in a month or two for an alpine climb (my partner has the aztar, but he loves his but he says that i'm stronger and won't notice the 14 gram difference or whatever it is)
so if any of you dudes have used both and have some good suggestions on one or the other that be much obliged
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slobmonster
Jun 24, 2005, 2:53 AM
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Personally, and with the choices you've given me, I'd go with the Viper. Having been a user of BD tools for many years, I have become accustomed to their swing, grip size, and particularly their universally available picks. The Aztar, in contrast, has picks made particularly for that tool (though the 4X4 pick fits, I think); it's also several years late on the scene (if you will).
Dare I ask: have you considered a pair of Cobras?
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tattooed_climber
Jun 24, 2005, 3:00 AM
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i've used a cobra before (only one...a mixed set...my buddy found it!)
and for the price, i really don't think i'll get good seasons worth....but saying that, i know everything i buy is a long term investment.....but cash is a bit tight and i'll probably bewalking into MEC and spending over a grand when i go to get these (tools, some more pitons, etc etc and poss a new rope too)....
so 218 a pop for a viper seems nicer to me that 330 or whatever for a cobra...
but besides weight (i only used the cobra for a day so i don't have much experience with that tool)...whats the big differences between it and the viper?????
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vashie
Jun 24, 2005, 1:58 PM
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material. the cobra is carbon fiber and can flex around a bit, the vipers are made out of aloy metal. Also, if you plan on pounding pitons with your tools, be careful with the viper, the spine of the shaft almost comes up flush with the hammer head, so extra care should be taken. just food for thought. I prefer the BD overall, it’s the more versatile tool in my opinion.
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couchwarrior
Jun 24, 2005, 2:39 PM
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I have used both the Viper and the Aztar and vastly prefer the Aztar. I think it gets better sticks and has a better swing. I actively disliked the Viper - ergonomically it felt wrong and out of balance and the pick was terrible. However, it was fitted with a "T" rated pick, and I can't stand BDs T-rated picks in general. My only knock on the Aztar was that the grips were a bit small for my hands.
Usually I use a pair of Cobras for everything but I won't pimp them here - your best choice is whatever feels best for you after using them both. The DMM Fly is a nice, reasonably-priced tool if price-point is a consideration and it's a fine alpine tool.
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telluryan
Jun 24, 2005, 2:40 PM
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Alpine climbing, i think i would go w/ the Aztar. I personally have the Vipers, but my climbing partner uses the Aztar. I personally like them both, however if i were using them on long alpine climbs i would save the weight and go w/ the Aztar and save the weight, they still swing great and don't have the pinky saver that the Vipers have.
You will be happy either way though!
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zen_alpinist
Jun 24, 2005, 3:05 PM
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Perhaps you might look at the Aztarrex
Looks like they just came out with it. Slightly paired down version of the Aztar. Comes with a pinky grip that is removable in case you want to go leashless.
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euroford
Jun 24, 2005, 4:01 PM
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i went through all of this last year, and settled on the vipers.
and boy, i've been damn glad i did. i freeking LOVE those things.
great swing, great picks, the ultimate leash system, i've enjoyed the leeshles option, and from an engineering perspective i damn near consider them works of art. bd does thier homework on tools and spares no expense.
but, it is a personal choice, and some poeple just prefer the charlet hoser stuff, so you best give it a swing.
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swesterhus
Jun 24, 2005, 11:57 PM
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If you have used both of them on climbs before I'm a bit surprised you haven't made up your mind!? :? Well... This is because I find them quite different. I personally wouldn't prefeer eighter one of them. The Aztars, I find, are a little on the light side swing wise. Maybe because of their weight I don't know. They don't seem to give any extra swyuuung from the head if you know what I mean!?
The Vipers are better like that, but I don't like the shaft at all. I personally think they'we got a better swing to them... once you can hit straight with them after you'we been on a climb for 3 hours...
Just my two conts though...
Good luck on your route!
Stian
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perswig
Jun 25, 2005, 1:21 AM
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My take:
Aztars = lighter (someone made a good comparison to DMM Fly); easier to stick in hero ice but lacks the balls for boilerplate without pounding, probably d/t wt and curve; completely different handgrip than Vipers; a bit cheaper?... a good tool for all-around alpine, esp if you're not burly or doing lots of vert ice, and esp if the grip feels good.
Vipers = heavier feel and good swing gives solid placements in harder ice; plunges well, even with fang (but would not recommend fang use if doing alot of 'piolet' work with it - easy to rotate the spike out); as said, lots of replacement pick options; oval grip, fits smaller hands well, easy to mantle up shafts if you tape 'em; option of releasable leashes if you end up doing WI more.
I use Vipers most days, old Shrikes occasionally, but some easy ice days would prefer the light wt of the Aztars. If price is really an issue, look at the Flys or an old pair of Rages. Good luck. Dale
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perswig
Jun 25, 2005, 1:28 AM
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For those Cobra users: having never held one, let alone used 'em, I'd be interested in your take vs. Vipers for WI3-5 use plus occasional mixed. If you want, email me at perswig@aol.com to avoid cluttering this thread. Dale
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tattooed_climber
Jun 26, 2005, 7:35 AM
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thanks for the advice guys, but i got my tool set...
got a deal....appearently if you flirt with the chick behind the counter she'll give you 10% off.. :D ...i couldn't pass it up
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cgailey
Jun 26, 2005, 9:10 AM
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In reply to: thanks for the advice guys, but i got my tool set... got a deal....appearently if you flirt with the chick behind the counter she'll give you 10% off.. :D ...i couldn't pass it up
must be the tattoos
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gunkiemike
Jun 27, 2005, 2:40 PM
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In reply to: thanks for the advice guys, but i got my tool set... got a deal....appearently if you flirt with the chick behind the counter she'll give you 10% off.. :D ...i couldn't pass it up
One question - did you get to try the goods before you handed the money over?
Try the tools, I meant. :D
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clintoris
Jun 30, 2005, 5:30 AM
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what did you end up getting?
I'm still loving my Vipers. Haven't used them on alpine stuff yet, only WI and mixed.... I'm sure they will be fine though.
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tattooed_climber
Jun 30, 2005, 5:46 AM
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sorry, i got the vipers....
In reply to: In reply to: thanks for the advice guys, but i got my tool set... got a deal....appearently if you flirt with the chick behind the counter she'll give you 10% off.. :D ...i couldn't pass it up One question - did you get to try the goods before you handed the money over? Try the tools, I meant. :D
what you mean by try? play with them in the store (of course)...on ice not likely...besides, i used theses for a week last season..........
it was awesome......she gave me this discount then i go and insult her....
i wanted to get some tri-cams and she didn't know what the hell i was talking about let alone a single thing about trad gear...and what do i say "oh, you must be a boulderer".......up to that point she was all googly eyed and asked what my name was (she just wanted to know :roll: ), saying how sexy these axes were that i was buying......thinkin im some famous dude in for the roc trip.... :roll: baby, if you could only lead on squamish crack i'd be all over ya! :P
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clintoris
Jun 30, 2005, 6:53 AM
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Hey, if you sleep with your vipers in your arms for the first few nights, know that you aren't the only one. It's ok...
Just make sure the picks aren't pointing towards your face!
Dude, though, you're going to LOVE the Vipers. I can't wait to REALLY put them to use this upcoming season. I'm going to be climbing some BIHIHIHIHIHIHIHIIIIIIIIIIIIG stuff up here in Alaska.
*Salivates*
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