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wings
Jul 7, 2005, 2:42 PM
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On June 22nd, I began a transaction with user andy_reagan to purchase a pair of used Katanas, size 7, for $65US (includes shipping) which he described as:
In reply to: A friend got them from the factory at a reduced price because of the water stain issue. They were sold to him as 7s, although they didn't fit him.
I received the shoes on July 4th (in Canada ... no holiday so mail delivery was active), to find that there was no possible way that these shoes could be a size 7. I've submitted a photo for comparison (still awaiting approval) with a European size 39.5, which is supposedly a size 7 or 7.5, so at most the size difference between these shoes should be .5. However, the shoes that were sent to me were about 1 inch shorter.
andy_reagan stated that the shoes might need to stretch out a bit due to having been in storage for a long time. However, there is no way that I can even put these shoes on my feet.
I told him about the situation and sent him the photo, and stated that I would wait 2 days to see if the shoes would magically "unshrink". During this time, I hoped that he would respond back to me. He did not.
This morning, I sent him an email, telling him that I would like to return his shoes and get my money back. Being a private sale on the internet and all, I told him that I did not know if he would be receptive to my demands, but what could it hurt to ask?
This is the reply I got:
In reply to: The original message was received at Thu, 7 Jul 2005 10:16:12 -0400 (EDT) from wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.199] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
(reason: 550 5.1.6 Recipient no longer on server: andy@nc.rr.com)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to ms-mta-03-pix.southeast.rr.com.:
>>> DATA
<<< 550 5.1.6 Recipient no longer on server: andy@nc.rr.com
550 5.1.1 ... User unknown
<<< 554 5.5.0 No recipients have been specified.
Final-Recipient: RFC822; andy@nc.rr.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.6
Remote-MTA: DNS; ms-mta-03-pix.southeast.rr.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 5.1.6 Recipient no longer on server: andy@nc.rr.com
Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 10:16:15 -0400 (EDT)
I did not think it was a scam. He did, after all, send me a pair of shoes (albeit there's no way they are the size that he advertised). However, now that his email address does not seem to be active, and curious timing at that, I am not left with many options other than a public thread.
I checked other threads to see if he has had any positive / negative feedback on sales, and I did see one where the buyer was happy about a set of holds purchased from andy_reagan.
So, andy_reagan, if you're still out there, and this is all a misunderstanding, please email me. You have my email address (although I no longer have a working one for you).
- Seyil
Edited the subject from "Buyer beware - andy_reagan" to "Attention - andy_reagan" ... I think ... never tried this before.
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kungfuclimber
Jul 7, 2005, 3:29 PM
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Ack thats no fun. I can't help you at all with the business aspect here but I can give you some info that might help.
I wear size 8 shoes. I usually go for a size 7 rock shoe. When trying on the katanas (I have 2 pairs) I found they were sized big. I mean a size 7 felt like a 8.5 in another model. So I ended up getting them in 37.5. I think that translates to 5.5. Let me be clear, there is no way my feet fit in a 5.5 shoe, let alone 6.5.
The point? Katanas are sized large. That might have lead to some misunderstanding on his part if he was "interpretting" the size for you.
Hope this helps
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fiend
Jul 7, 2005, 3:41 PM
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In reply to: I've submitted a photo for comparison (still awaiting approval) with a European size 39.5, which is supposedly a size 7 or 7.5, so at most the size difference between these shoes should be .5. However, the shoes that were sent to me were about 1 inch shorter.
You did this with another pair of the same model of shoes right?
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jw11733
Jul 7, 2005, 3:52 PM
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Have you tried to PM Andy? I really dont think this is a scam, just a misunderstanding. Consider changing the title of your post - at least give the guy a chance to respond before you slander him.
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corpse
Jul 7, 2005, 3:52 PM
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I don't think you were scammed or ripped off. Some models are sized very differently. Also, did the sizing thing get worn off - maybe he just forgot and "sized" them best he could? And if he's had other positive sale(s), that goes to shoe, err show, a little credibility.
Buying climbing shoes is always tricky, especially used ones - I believe it's truly a gamble unless you can try them on. One used pair can be easily stretched a half inch or more just based on the person wearing them..
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wings
Jul 7, 2005, 3:55 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I've submitted a photo for comparison (still awaiting approval) with a European size 39.5, which is supposedly a size 7 or 7.5, so at most the size difference between these shoes should be .5. However, the shoes that were sent to me were about 1 inch shorter. You did this with another pair of the same model of shoes right?
Sorry if this was not clear ... yes, the same model shoe (of course). Wouldn't be a very meaningful comparison otherwise.
- Seyil
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wings
Jul 7, 2005, 3:59 PM
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In reply to: Have you tried to PM Andy? I really dont think this is a scam, just a misunderstanding. Consider changing the title of your post - at least give the guy a chance to respond before you slander him.
I have not sent a PM via this website to andy_reagan, as I have found that most of the PMs I have sent in the past have not been responded to. I can understand this, as I rarely if ever check the tiny "No new messages" text at the top of the page.
However, at this suggestion, I will send him one.
Given that he has had 3 days to respond to my original email, and the fact that the email address given to me by him is no longer active, I don't feel as though my tone has been unduly harsh.
- Seyil
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fiend
Jul 7, 2005, 4:07 PM
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In reply to: ... yes, the same model shoe (of course). Wouldn't be a very meaningful comparison otherwise.
Hey, for all I knew you were a complete beginner and went and compared them to your street shoe and then couldn't figure out why they were so short :D
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wings
Jul 7, 2005, 4:08 PM
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Okay, let's see if this works.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=57128
The shoe on top is the one sent to me by andy_reagan, advertised as a size 7.
The shoe on the bottom is mine, European size 39.5, which from all accounts (his and mine), is a size 7 (or possibly a 7.5, but most references seem to indicate size 7).
Both are unisex models of the La Sportiva Katanas.
Dunno what else to add here.
- Seyil
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mother_sheep
Jul 7, 2005, 4:18 PM
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Send him a PM.
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grin-n-barrett
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Jul 7, 2005, 4:20 PM
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Those shoes look nasty man...sorry for your misfortune...definately looks like a mistaken size.
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wings
Jul 7, 2005, 4:23 PM
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In reply to: Send him a PM.
This was done immediately after I responded to jw11733's post.
- Seyil
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dingus
Jul 7, 2005, 4:24 PM
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In reply to: I have not sent a PM via this website to andy_reagan, as I have found that most of the PMs I have sent in the past have not been responded to. I can understand this, as I rarely if ever check the tiny "No new messages" text at the top of the page. However, at this suggestion, I will send him one. Given that he has had 3 days to respond to my original email, and the fact that the email address given to me by him is no longer active, I don't feel as though my tone has been unduly harsh. - Seyil
Let me get this right... the email 'he has had 3 days to respond to' bounced? And you made no further attempt to contact him. So for this sin you slander him?
Buying used shoes over the internet to save money can be a fool's errand. Shipping to and fro... coulda bought a new pair.
DMT
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grin-n-barrett
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Jul 7, 2005, 4:33 PM
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Look at those shoes??? Did you see them before you bought them? Wow those shoes are bad news...are they stained?
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wings
Jul 7, 2005, 4:36 PM
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In reply to: Let me get this right... the email 'he has had 3 days to respond to' bounced? And you made no further attempt to contact him. So for this sin you slander him? Buying used shoes over the internet to save money can be a fool's errand. Shipping to and fro... coulda bought a new pair. DMT
The email I sent to him on July 4th did not bounce.
The email I sent to him on July 5th did not bounce.
The email I sent to him on July 7th did bounce (this morning).
Again, apologies if that was not clear.
The last email I received from him was on July 1st.
I'm not exactly clear on the legal definition of slander. I have yet to accuse him outright of anything, although perhaps I may not have done much to dissuade people of such a notion. I don't necessarily expect a "good" resolution, if one is forthcoming, to occur anytime soon. This is why I haven't posted anything else other than to respond to peoples' questions.
Should I change the name of the thread? I suppose as it stands now it's a bit harsh ... perhaps part of my knee-jerk reaction to the fear of getting ripped off. However, I don't think it's over the top or anything like that. This is how I feel right now, and I'm sticking with that.
- Seyil
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grin-n-barrett
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Jul 7, 2005, 4:40 PM
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The ultimate question is how much did you pay for those bad boys? :oops:
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dingus
Jul 7, 2005, 4:40 PM
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In reply to: However, I don't think it's over the top or anything like that. This is how I feel right now, and I'm sticking with that. - Seyil
Good luck on obtaining your refund.
DMT
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wings
Jul 7, 2005, 4:42 PM
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In reply to: Look at those shoes??? Did you see them before you bought them? Wow those shoes are bad news...are they stained?
They are stained, but this was known to me before the purchase.
What I did not know was that the bottom rubber was peeling off the heels. However, that's not a big deal to me. Not exactly "great condition", as his original post advertised, but I can live with that.
Unfortunately, he overwrote his original posting, but I guess people do that sometimes so not a big deal.
- Seyil
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grin-n-barrett
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Jul 7, 2005, 4:50 PM
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This poor Andy guy is the victim here...all he does is stains these shoes and sells them over the internet and gets ridiculed for it. Andy our thoughts are with you.
By the way maybe these are a womens size 7...which is equal to a mens size 5.
enjoy...
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crotch
Jul 7, 2005, 4:55 PM
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Did it occur to you that some people are away from their computers for a few days at a time, particularly in the summer, and particularly around long weekends?
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wings
Jul 7, 2005, 5:05 PM
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In reply to: Did it occur to you that some people are away from their computers for a few days at a time, particularly in the summer, and particularly around long weekends?
Of course it did.
As I mentionned in a previous post, I do not expect any sort of resolution to occur anytime soon. I'm perfectly fine to give this a few days to pan out.
I've even changed the topic title to be less accusatory and more neutral.
In hindsight, perhaps I should have sent the PM first, after my third email bounced. Oh well. What's done is done.
Had my third email not bounced, but instead sat in his inbox, then I would not have bothered starting a thread here. But hey, as soon as email addresses stop existing, I don't feel so good.
- Seyil
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wings
Jul 7, 2005, 5:09 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: By the way maybe these are a womens size 7...which is equal to a mens size 5. I can think of several possible explanations like the above, most of which lead to "honest mistake". But then, there's always the possibility that, after successfully closing the score of a lifetime, Andy, if that's his real name, retired from the confidence game to a tropical beach with his ill-gotten gains. :lol:
You know ... my fear here is that all of the sarcasm being thrown around is just making things less likely for a peaceful resolution. :)
And on the men's / women's sizing, note this email that he sent me:
In reply to: These do not have tags identifying the size on them. A friend got them from the factory at a reduced price because of the water stain issue. They were sold to him as 7s, although they didn't fit him. They fit me perfectly, though, but I already have one too many pairs of shoes! :)
(emphasis by me)
- Seyil
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grin-n-barrett
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Jul 7, 2005, 5:16 PM
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I knew a girl named Andy...by the way Andy your grandfather was a great man...
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chezdillon
Jul 7, 2005, 5:51 PM
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I know Andy. I have climbed with Andy. Andy is a good guy. Andy has been known to climb during the summer. My guess is that he is climbing, and not able to respond to your emails. This is surely a misunderstanding.
If Andy does not respond within the next couple of days, I will gladly spot you the money for the shoes. I trust that Andy is good for it, and I would be glad to help out in this situation. Just PM me for more info.
Also, I don't necessarily need the shoes in exchange for the money. They wouldn't fit me anyway :wink:
If necessary, I believe j_ung can vouch for me. (I apologize for the rock star name-dropping)
- Jeff
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