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dingus
Aug 4, 2005, 5:05 AM
Post #51 of 107
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In reply to: Most of the time he's spot on in his technical advice/admonishments. Like Hell he is. DMT
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dirtineye
Aug 4, 2005, 11:11 PM
Post #52 of 107
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In reply to: In reply to: There is no reason to take a quick draw on a trad climb. On the other hand, here are a few things you can't do with a QD: 1. Can't make an alpine clutch. 2. Can't make a rappel backup. 3. Can't make any of the friction knots to ascend or belay escape. ... funny, I carry a couple of prusiks with me for this. Using a spectra or dyneema sling to make a prusik knot would be a pretty scary experience that I think you'd only try once. Ok, so make a mariner out of your prussik loop. Or a kleimheist. You MIGHT just need your prussik loops for other things, especially for the alpine clutch. Besides all that. these are thing yo ucan't do with a QICK DRAW, or didn't they teach you teh difference between a quick draw and a prussik loop down under? I see all that standing up side down has affected your mind.
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caughtinside
Aug 4, 2005, 11:17 PM
Post #53 of 107
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Dirt, the point was that some slings are carried. And in the unlikely scenario that you got to a spot where you HAD to have a sling, but only had quickdraws you could, I don't know, come up with something? It wouldn't be that hard. Your same argument, "what if you need ___" could be extrapolated out to have people carrying 30 draws and 30 cams. I am not saying it's stupid to carry all runners. I am saying it's pretty dumb to make a blanket statement that draws are no good for trad. Plenty of climbers have found useful applications for them, and sound reasons for those applications.
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dirtineye
Aug 4, 2005, 11:35 PM
Post #54 of 107
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In reply to: Dirt, the point was that some slings are carried. And in the unlikely scenario that you got to a spot where you HAD to have a sling, but only had quickdraws you could, I don't know, come up with something? It wouldn't be that hard. Your same argument, "what if you need ___" could be extrapolated out to have people carrying 30 draws and 30 cams. I am not saying it's stupid to carry all runners. I am saying it's pretty dumb to make a blanket statement that draws are no good for trad. Plenty of climbers have found useful applications for them, and sound reasons for those applications. A pox on queer draws, and on all those who carry the vile putrescences up trad climbs! Is that dumb enough for you?
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tradmanclimbs
Aug 5, 2005, 12:07 AM
Post #55 of 107
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Puss in eye is no doubt the snot nosed dickless sibling of a scabby pox infested, sphylitic two dollar batton rouge whore 8^)
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blondgecko
Moderator
Aug 5, 2005, 2:30 AM
Post #56 of 107
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: There is no reason to take a quick draw on a trad climb. On the other hand, here are a few things you can't do with a QD: 1. Can't make an alpine clutch. 2. Can't make a rappel backup. 3. Can't make any of the friction knots to ascend or belay escape. ... funny, I carry a couple of prusiks with me for this. Using a spectra or dyneema sling to make a prusik knot would be a pretty scary experience that I think you'd only try once. Ok, so make a mariner out of your prussik loop. Or a kleimheist. You MIGHT just need your prussik loops for other things, especially for the alpine clutch. Besides all that. these are thing yo ucan't do with a QICK DRAW, or didn't they teach you teh difference between a quick draw and a prussik loop down under? I see all that standing up side down has affected your mind. :wtf: My long prusik (foot loop) is easily long enough to tie a mariner knot (though I've never had the occasion to use it in anger). The klemheist is the standard knot I use for prusiking. Yes, you could also make these from slings, but who cares? As for the alpine clutch, wtf does that have to do with the choice of sling, quickdraw, prusik or hardware-store chain? Personally, I like to look at the route I'll be doing. If it's straightforward, with little wandering or bulges, I'll take mostly quickdraws with a few slings. If it's wandery or unknown, I'll carry more slings and tripled draws. Summary Straightforward: draws fine. Wandery: carry slings. It's not exactly a difficult concept to grasp.
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dirtineye
Aug 5, 2005, 2:33 AM
Post #57 of 107
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In reply to: Puss in eye is no doubt the snot nosed dickless sibling of a scabby pox infested, sphylitic two dollar batton rouge whore 8^) Sir you do me honor! As I recall, your mother and sister were 50 cents for the pair.
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dirtineye
Aug 5, 2005, 2:36 AM
Post #58 of 107
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In reply to: Personally, I like to look at the route I'll be doing. If it's straightforward, with little wandering or bulges, I'll take mostly quickdraws with a few slings. If it's wandery or unknown, I'll carry more slings and tripled draws. Uh-huh. So you are a single pitch, guide book beta, see to the top kind of climber. Gotcha.
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alex234
Aug 5, 2005, 3:25 AM
Post #59 of 107
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i like to use sport draws on relatively straight cracks. i find there to be no need to use trad draws in that situation seeing rope drag is not really a problem. However on wandering routes trad draws are definately a must to cut down on rope drag.
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blondgecko
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Aug 5, 2005, 3:33 AM
Post #60 of 107
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In reply to: In reply to: Personally, I like to look at the route I'll be doing. If it's straightforward, with little wandering or bulges, I'll take mostly quickdraws with a few slings. If it's wandery or unknown, I'll carry more slings and tripled draws. Uh-huh. So you are a single pitch, guide book beta, see to the top kind of climber. Gotcha. Methinks your reading comprehension needs a little work - besides which, you've just made a mockery of your own "quickdraws are bad in all trad situations" stance. As I stated: if it's wandery or unknown, I'll carry more slings and tripled draws.
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lewisiarediviva
Aug 5, 2005, 3:49 AM
Post #61 of 107
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We bought quick draws when our kids started climbing because we figured sport climbing was a good way to introduce the kids to the rocks. Well, since we have them we usually carry a few for trad climbing too. Also, after climbing a few meandering sport climbs, we now carry slings on bolted routes. Crazy, isn't it?
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blondgecko
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Aug 5, 2005, 3:56 AM
Post #62 of 107
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In reply to: We bought quick draws when our kids started climbing because we figured sport climbing was a good way to introduce the kids to the rocks. Well, since we have them we usually carry a few for trad climbing too. Also, after climbing a few meandering sport climbs, we now carry slings on bolted routes. Crazy, isn't it? :shock: You took slings on a sport climb??????// :evil: :evil: :evil: INFIDEL!!!!!111
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ajkclay
Aug 5, 2005, 4:39 AM
Post #63 of 107
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In reply to: Some climbers get so rapped up in believing that there are rules to the game. What keeps you alive and safe is GOOD HABITS, not RULES. The folks who say "never clip a draw to a nut" seem to fall in the category of people who believe that climbers need rules. The word "never" is an absolute. There are times to clip short sport draws to nuts. And there are many many times not to. I have two suggestions for the folks out there who are having a hard time with this. 1- Calm down. Other people are allowed to do things differently than you do. 2- Consider buying a few 12" open slings, and rack them like draws. I carry six sport draws and four 12" open draws on most climbs. The 12" open draws do not contribute to "nut wiggle," because I use 24" or 48" slings when they are necessary. I won't sit here and tell you that you have to do it that way, but I'll say that it works for me, or at least it has so far. I wish I could rate today, topnotch post! PS, cut and paste this into just about any thread with an arguement about procedure and it would be right.
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ajkclay
Aug 5, 2005, 5:05 AM
Post #64 of 107
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In reply to: In reply to: Personally, I like to look at the route I'll be doing. If it's straightforward, with little wandering or bulges, I'll take mostly quickdraws with a few slings. If it's wandery or unknown, I'll carry more slings and tripled draws. Uh-huh. So you are a single pitch, guide book beta, see to the top kind of climber. Gotcha. errr before you go patting yourself on the back for knowing his situation, you should have noted that he lives in Queensland, home of Frog Buttress, it's very unlikely that he does only single pitch routes. I would have thought that by looking at the route he means working out whether it's likely to be straight or wander. It doesn't take a genius to look at a prospective route to work this out, regardless of its height.
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dirtineye
Aug 5, 2005, 4:33 PM
Post #65 of 107
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Personally, I like to look at the route I'll be doing. If it's straightforward, with little wandering or bulges, I'll take mostly quickdraws with a few slings. If it's wandery or unknown, I'll carry more slings and tripled draws. Uh-huh. So you are a single pitch, guide book beta, see to the top kind of climber. Gotcha. errr before you go patting yourself on the back for knowing his situation, you should have noted that he lives in Queensland, home of Frog Buttress, it's very unlikely that he does only single pitch routes. I would have thought that by looking at the route he means working out whether it's likely to be straight or wander. It doesn't take a genius to look at a prospective route to work this out, regardless of its height. Aren't you the cluess wanker who has only climbed a few trad climbs? thanks for the tip, I'll be sure to keep in in mind, giving it all the consideration it deserves!!
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ajkclay
Aug 5, 2005, 4:41 PM
Post #66 of 107
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Personally, I like to look at the route I'll be doing. If it's straightforward, with little wandering or bulges, I'll take mostly quickdraws with a few slings. If it's wandery or unknown, I'll carry more slings and tripled draws. Uh-huh. So you are a single pitch, guide book beta, see to the top kind of climber. Gotcha. errr before you go patting yourself on the back for knowing his situation, you should have noted that he lives in Queensland, home of Frog Buttress, it's very unlikely that he does only single pitch routes. I would have thought that by looking at the route he means working out whether it's likely to be straight or wander. It doesn't take a genius to look at a prospective route to work this out, regardless of its height. Aren't you the cluess wanker who has only climbed a few trad climbs? thanks for the tip, I'll be sure to keep in in mind, giving it all the consideration it deserves!! where the hell did you get that gem from? aren't you the clueless wanker who likes to make shit up? thanks for the heads up, I'll bear it in mind when reading anything you post with an air of authority from now on, giving it all the consideration it deserves!!
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boadman
Aug 5, 2005, 5:13 PM
Post #67 of 107
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In reply to: In reply to: Most of the time he's spot on in his technical advice/admonishments. Like Hell he is. DMT Amen.
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gnat
Aug 5, 2005, 5:36 PM
Post #68 of 107
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This whole "debate" (including related threads) is a classic example of why rc.com is so lame. Americans carry far too much gear on routine trad climbs and (if dirtineye's profile photo is to be believed), own far too much gear too. Quickdraws (of any sort) are just fine for lengthening a placement. Sometimes the placement needs to be lengthened more, so you use a runner..Duh! Sometimes, you don't need to lengthen it at all, and you just clip the rope into the biner on the piece. Thanks for the laughs.
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stzzo
Aug 5, 2005, 6:44 PM
Post #69 of 107
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In reply to: It's better to be honest AND polite than it is to be either alone. Well put. --
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dirtineye
Aug 5, 2005, 8:56 PM
Post #70 of 107
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In reply to: where the hell did you get that gem from? HEH, well, it appears that your posts were mixed in a masive quote from krisp, and it was he who had little experience. but you're still a clueless wanker!!!!! Qucik draws on trad climbs are disgusting.
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tradmanclimbs
Aug 5, 2005, 9:18 PM
Post #71 of 107
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Dirtbrain, You use all that Wide and gay gear you have on your rack or do you just post those shots so that we will think you are a wide crack hardman? :lol: Stuff looks pretty damn shiny to me :roll:
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krisp
Aug 5, 2005, 9:44 PM
Post #72 of 107
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Personally, I like to look at the route I'll be doing. If it's straightforward, with little wandering or bulges, I'll take mostly quickdraws with a few slings. If it's wandery or unknown, I'll carry more slings and tripled draws. Uh-huh. So you are a single pitch, guide book beta, see to the top kind of climber. Gotcha. errr before you go patting yourself on the back for knowing his situation, you should have noted that he lives in Queensland, home of Frog Buttress, it's very unlikely that he does only single pitch routes. I would have thought that by looking at the route he means working out whether it's likely to be straight or wander. It doesn't take a genius to look at a prospective route to work this out, regardless of its height. Aren't you the cluess wanker who has only climbed a few trad climbs? thanks for the tip, I'll be sure to keep in in mind, giving it all the consideration it deserves!! Hi , clueless wanker here! Thanks a lot dirt . Last time I try to play on your team. "wanker"... thats none of your bussiness, "clueless"... I beg to differ! I may not have a lot of experience but I do understand the discussion. Jeezus you guys are a hard ass bunch. I was trying to agree with you! Mostly 'cause nobody else does. Never mind, your beating this one into the ground anyway.
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dirtineye
Aug 5, 2005, 9:52 PM
Post #73 of 107
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In reply to: Dirtbrain, You use all that Wide and gay gear you have on your rack or do you just post those shots so that we will think you are a wide crack hardman? :lol: Stuff looks pretty damn shiny to me :roll: Well Tardman, I use it. But mainly, I use the, 'wide and gay gear', as loaners to desperate for a date fag-boy poseur climber wannabes like you, so they can find satisfaction, if you know what I mean.
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jt512
Aug 5, 2005, 10:25 PM
Post #74 of 107
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In reply to: Quickdraws (of any sort) are just fine for lengthening a placement. Sometimes the placement needs to be lengthened more, so you use a runner..Duh! Sometimes, you don't need to lengthen it at all, and you just clip the rope into the biner on the piece. Here's a line you may never see again: I agree with gnat. I remember hearing the word "quickdraw" used in Yosemite in the 80s to refer to short tied runners carried on the rack with two biners already attached. Since this was in Yosemite, these short runners weren't being used on trad routes [edit: I meant, "weren't being used on sport routes]. Before sewn runners became popluar, I remember carrying a selection of short tied QDs and over-the-shoulder full-length runners. -Jay
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dirtineye
Aug 5, 2005, 11:29 PM
Post #75 of 107
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In reply to: Hi , clueless wanker here! Thanks a lot dirt . Last time I try to play on your team. "wanker"... thats none of your bussiness, "clueless"... I beg to differ! I may not have a lot of experience but I do understand the discussion. Jeezus you guys are a hard ass bunch. I was trying to agree with you! Mostly 'cause nobody else does. Never mind, your beating this one into the ground anyway. yes, you are truly clueless. DOn;t agre 3wiht me because nobody else does, that woudl be a stupid reason indeed. You should agree because you understand both the adapability of slings vs queer draws, and the stupidity of clipping short. Several peopel in these threads have stated that they didn;t know there was anything wrong with clipping directly to a nut or hex. That's amazing, because those pieces are the easiest to disturb by short clipping. IT's true, Once in a While, you can clip directly or very short, without running the risk of screwing up the placement but most people don't really understand when that is. I've seen lots of gear that got lifted or shifted, and came that got walked because of clipping short. It's dangerous. Sometimes peopel hit the ground because of it.
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