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king_rat
Aug 18, 2005, 4:20 PM
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Do micro wires have a place on a trad rack? the smallest micro wires hold 2KN when placed in good rock. If your on a route where little gear can be placed and you’re looking at very long falls, would you prefer to use micro wires conscious that they will only hold a small fall or would you prefer to run it out and risk a serious fall?
or are they just for aiding?
KR
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ontherocks
Aug 18, 2005, 4:29 PM
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If there is potential for a dangerous fall and the only pro that goes is a small wire, I would use it. Better than nothing. If the fall is improbable or not dangerous, I would consider to run it out. But yes, I think micros can be part of your rack, as far as you remember to use them only when there is no other option.
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vegastradguy
Aug 18, 2005, 4:32 PM
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I carry the smallest BD's, but I can't remember the last time I used one of them. However, having the option of using them is a good one for me.
Personally, if I have to use them, I try to do one or more of the following:
1) Set two of them and put a sliding 'X' on 'em- this option works if the rock is good, the fall is relatively straight, and the sliding 'x' naturally sits where it needs to for the fall.
2) Use a screamer- this option is a great one, and, depending on the rock and the circumstance, a screamer can actually give you hope that the stopper will hold. using this in tandem with #1 can make it like you're using real pro in the right situation. :)
3) Pray- while not a great option, sometimes it's all you get.
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climboard
Aug 18, 2005, 4:36 PM
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It depends on which micro-wires you are talking about.
I don't carry any BD nuts below a #4 stopper as they aren't rated for much more than bodyweight.
I do have RP's and HB bronze offsets that I carry if I think the route requires them. I only carry the sizes that are rated 5.5KN and above though.
My reasoning is that I don't want to carry any gear that I don't feel comfortable taking a decent fall on. If I see a route that is anywhere near my limit and all it takes is the smallest of micro-gear I will keep walking.
If I grew up climbing Gritstone my opinion would probably be different.
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davidji
Aug 18, 2005, 4:46 PM
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In reply to: I carry the smallest BD's, but I can't remember the last time I used one of them.
I never carry the smallest BD Micro freeclimbing, but occasionally carry the others. One one pitch I used 4 out of 5 of 'em.
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renohandjams
Aug 18, 2005, 4:51 PM
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In reply to: Do micro wires have a place on a trad rack? the smallest micro wires hold 2KN when placed in good rock. If your on a route where little gear can be placed and you’re looking at very long falls, would you prefer to use micro wires conscious that they will only hold a small fall or would you prefer to run it out and risk a serious fall? or are they just for aiding? KR |
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krisp
Aug 18, 2005, 4:54 PM
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Hey, is there a difference between the BD micros, RP's, "brassies", etc? Or are they just different brands of micro stoppers. I'm a noob to trad so I wont be using them any time soon. Just trying to learn a little each day :)
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bill413
Aug 18, 2005, 5:01 PM
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In addition to using them directly for less than full strength pro, they are also useful for setting up oppositional type placements, and keeping other (full strength) pro from lifting out. For example, you may have a stopper that is great against downward pull, but you know the rope could lift it out of it's crack really easily; sometimes you can find a placement that works against an upward pull (below that nut) to keep it sitting in the correct spot. This arises less than it used to, thanks to cams, but it's still occaisionally useful.
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davidji
Aug 18, 2005, 5:03 PM
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In reply to: Hey, is there a difference between the BD micros, RP's, "brassies", etc? Or are they just different brands of micro stoppers. I'm a noob to trad so I wont be using them any time soon. Just trying to learn a little each day :) |
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krisp
Aug 18, 2005, 5:16 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Hey, is there a difference between the BD micros, RP's, "brassies", etc? Or are they just different brands of micro stoppers. I'm a noob to trad so I wont be using them any time soon. Just trying to learn a little each day :) There's a huge difference. BD micros are harder (and cheaper) than RPs & other brassies. In a micronut placement, a "bounce test" or even a hard tug may deform a brass micro enough to pull it out (depending on how secure the placement is). Never been able to do that with a BD micro, although the hard tug might chip the rock. |
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vegastradguy
Aug 18, 2005, 5:38 PM
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In reply to: So what are the different applications/uses?
the smallest brassies (HB offsets, trangos, etc) are usually bodyweight only pieces for aid climbing. this is mostly because the brass is soft and deforms easily- making a trad fall less than desirable. (however, this isnt to say the stopper couldnt hold a fall, but its not likely)
rp's are tiny little stoppers that can be used on free routes, but, like the smallest bd stoppers, its not an ideal sort of pro. screamers and praying are often found with rp's on free lines. they are more often found on aid lines.
BD's smallest (and other similar sized stoppers), are aluminum, and while only rated to bodyweight, are much more likely to be found on a free route- mostly because they dont seem insane like the others. i have an HB #0 and its about 1/3 the size of the smallest BD stopper- i'll leave you to guess which one i'd use on a free route!
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caughtinside
Aug 18, 2005, 5:41 PM
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The BD microstoppers are steel. But the small BD stoppers are aluminum, and only rated to 2kn, I think.
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forkliftdaddy
Aug 18, 2005, 6:34 PM
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I often carry a micronuts. My selection includes HB Brass Offsets, Metolius Astro Nuts and BD Micro Stoppers. Getting the best fit possible is very important for a micronut. Maximum contact, that's the proper mantra.
Material: What the micro is made from is important. In good, hard rock, such as quartzite, the BD micros are truck gear. I prefer softer compounds for softer or more questionable rock.
Size: For a larger micronut (in good rock), I don't break out a screamer. The larger sizes are plenty strong. For smaller micros I often use a screamer. Also, given the opportunity, I'll double or triple up the micronuts and equalize them. This (I hope) spreads the impact force over a larger area, reducing the load on each nut and on each point of contact with the rock.
I carry the smallest HB and the BD micros. For gear placed overhead and not climbed above, I tell myself that I'd risk a sag onto them. I've never done it, mind you, but I've seen a 1 BD Micro Stopper bounce tested. Never got that bugger back.
Rock Quality: I treat questionable rock the same as small micronuts -- double or triple the palcement if possible, then equalize, and clip with a screamer.
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cracklover
Aug 18, 2005, 7:37 PM
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Yes, at least the larger micros. Especially higher on a pitch, in conjunction with screamers, placed nested if need be, etc. In other words - only if you know how and when to use 'em right. They cannot simply be used in all the same situations when a larger stopper would be used.
GO
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alpnclmbr1
Aug 18, 2005, 7:47 PM
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I've seen a #2 steel nut hold a fifteen foot slab fall with a 240 lb leader. Repeatedly. (I have also seen him snap one without even slowing down.)
The sliding x trick is good if you can get a no hands stance.
I haven't seen (or placed) very many of them in the middle of hard cruxes.
I will freeclimb on #2 rp's, steel nuts, a #2or3 stopper, #1 peanut.
I rarely place just one really small piece. It usually takes a sustained section of small gear to make their use necessary.
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stonefree
Aug 18, 2005, 8:02 PM
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The smallest BD Microstoppers weigh less than the few extra pennies sitting in your pocket that you forgot to take out before you left the ground. Why not? If a Number One micro stopper is the only thing that will fit then plug it in, if worse comes to worse it will at least slow down the fall. Like stated earlier you can try and double them up and attach them, the combined microstoppers may just hold a relatively longer fall.
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onbelay510
Aug 18, 2005, 8:28 PM
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I carry the 3 largest BD Micros whenever I climb. If the placement gets dicey I'll double up or throw on a Screamer. Doing both is also an option. Sometimes placing "headpro" is all you can do, but if you're not pumping out, put something in.
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gunked
Aug 18, 2005, 9:25 PM
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Absolutely!!!
By themselves (the smallest ones) they are usually junk in my opinion. Doubled or tripled, they're great for pro.
Just yesterday, I placed two (#2 BD micro and a #3 HB offset brassie) equalized together in a horizontal crack with a crappy red lowe tri-cam to keep them in place. It was bomber! (Of course I didn't test that statement :roll: )
-Jason :D
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lucas_timmer
Aug 18, 2005, 10:14 PM
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I use Rock Empire Brass Nuts and they can hold a lot of weight(the smallest can hold 6kN) but they don't have the small sizes like other brands have which are much more useful for aid and the tinyest of gear placements.So I'l probaply buy some DMM peenuts as well.
-LT
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climboard
Aug 19, 2005, 3:06 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: So what are the different applications/uses? the smallest brassies (HB offsets, trangos, etc) are usually bodyweight only pieces for aid climbing. this is mostly because the brass is soft and deforms easily- making a trad fall less than desirable. (however, this isnt to say the stopper couldnt hold a fall, but its not likely) rp's are tiny little stoppers that can be used on free routes, but, like the smallest bd stoppers, its not an ideal sort of pro. screamers and praying are often found with rp's on free lines. they are more often found on aid lines. BD's smallest (and other similar sized stoppers), are aluminum, and while only rated to bodyweight, are much more likely to be found on a free route- mostly because they dont seem insane like the others. i have an HB #0 and its about 1/3 the size of the smallest BD stopper- i'll leave you to guess which one i'd use on a free route!
The smaller HB offsets are bronze, not brass, so they are actually harder than aluminum nuts.
The RP's are indeed brass and are softer than most nuts. While this means they have a higher chance of deforming under load I consider it an advantage in smaller nuts because it reduces the chance of the rock breaking due to the force being transmitted over such a small surface area, especially in softer rock. Make sure you have as much surface contact as possible!
BD's micronuts are a steel and copper blend which is great for harder rock as others have pointed out.
I wouldn't recommend Bd's smallest aluminum stoppers as there are so many other specialized nuts out there that are stronger size for size. They are pretty cheap though.
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vegastradguy
Aug 19, 2005, 5:38 AM
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In reply to: The smaller HB offsets are bronze, not brass, so they are actually harder than aluminum nuts.
i stand corrected. still couldnt talk me into actually carrying the smallest of the bunch, though....a bit too spooky for my taste.
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dirtineye
Aug 19, 2005, 5:49 PM
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King Rat seems to have a lot of noobish questions.
The answer is, if you don't know what's ahead, i.e., adventure climbing, take it all. Small is always better than nothing when you really need it.
And as many have correctly stated, when the pro is small the fit is all, so lots of different shapes n sizes is good.
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stabla
Aug 31, 2005, 5:00 PM
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Just purchased the microstoppers about 2 months ago and they are gangster!(*awesome*). I have a north carolina rack even though i live in minnesota and i used a ton when i was in NC.
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lightrack
Nov 14, 2005, 8:06 PM
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Some climbing area's require a large selection of micro's. In the gallatins I carry HB's, BD micros (some free routes requiring the smallest ones), Some DMM's, and Astro nuts. Flared placements beg for the offsets. The more contact the better and sometimes, when in doubt, I'll set up "nests" of micro's.
Hope this helps,
Patrick
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bones
Nov 14, 2005, 10:54 PM
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I only carry them if I'm reasonably sure I'll need them, just like OW gear. If there are other pro options I leave on the ground. The HB offsets and Metolius Astronuts work for me, but the BD micros are great too.
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