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chrisparedes
Aug 21, 2005, 8:30 PM
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So, my normal practice when cleaning a route is to get lowered off the anchors. However I know this causes damage to the anchors and decided I need to learn how to rappell of a route. What steps are involved? But I would guess this would make cleaning the route harder. Would it or not? I'd like to hear opinions on this.
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speedywon
Aug 21, 2005, 10:35 PM
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Step 1: Get someone experienced to show you how/supervise you doing this.
Step 2: When you reach the anchors, clip a sling or daisy chain that is girth hitched to your harness to each of the anchors.
Step 3: Pull up several yards of rope and tie a bite off to your harness or daisy chain.
Step 4: Untie yourself from the rope and run your end through the chains/clips attached to the anchors untill it reaches the ground (plus a few feet).
Step 5: Hook up your rapel device to the rope and shift your weight off your anchors slings and onto the rope.
Step 6: Make sure your rapell device is set-up properly.
Step 7: Check it again.
Step 8: Unclip your anchor slings from the anchor.
Step 9: Rapell down.
Again, I can't stress this enough, don't go do this because you had some hack on RC.com tell you how to. Go with someone experienced and have them walk you through. This explanation should be for nothing more than to help you visualize the process.
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saxfiend
Aug 22, 2005, 12:33 AM
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In reply to: Step 3: Pull up several yards of rope and tie a bite off to your harness or daisy chain. Step 4: Untie yourself from the rope and run your end through the chains/clips attached to the anchors untill it reaches the ground (plus a few feet).
As noted, pull some slack, tie an overhand and clip it to your harness. This is important -- it keeps you from dropping your rope when you untie and marooning yourself at the anchor. Then untie the tie-in from your harness and run the end of the rope through the rap rings until you're stopped by the overhand that's clipped to your harness. At this point, if you really want to be completely safe, tie an overhand in the rope that has already gone through the rap rings and clip this bight to your harness. Some people leave out this step.
Now you can unclip and untie the original bight and continue pulling rope through the rap rings. After you've gotten enough rope through that you don't need to worry about the weight of the rope below pulling it back through, unclip and untie your second safety knot and let the rope drop. Continue pulling rope until you either see both ends on the ground, or until you see the middle marker of the rope at the rap rings.
If there's room for any doubt whatsoever whether both ends of the rope are down (e.g., you can't see the ground from the anchor; it's too dark to see either the middle marker or the ground), you should have knots in both ends of the rope. This will avert the disastrous scenario of rapping off the end of your rope. Of course when you get to the bottom, be sure to untie the knots, or you're screwed when you pull the rope.
One more thing -- be very meticulous when threading your belay device. Unless you know alternate rap techniques (like a munter hitch), you really don't want to drop it. :shock:
To the OP -- Chris, you should come to the Atlanta Climbing Club's next meeting, 9/10 I believe, it's a great group of climbers. They're the ones who taught me how to break down a route (among many other things).
JL
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robo555
Aug 22, 2005, 12:42 AM
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After step 5 where you hook up your belay device, you'll want to lock it off before you unclip from your anchor.
Do do that, either wrap the rope round your thigh three times, lock off with a pussik, or tie off with the munter-mule.
http://climbing.com/techtips/trad/tttrad217/
For sport climbs, I just wrap it round my thigh, quick and easy 'cos it only takes a couple of seconds to unclip from the anchors. But if you'll be hanging there for a while, you'll probably wanna tie it off instead.
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chrisparedes
Aug 22, 2005, 1:22 AM
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Thanks for the detailed info. It is much clearer to me now, though it seems a little more complicated than being lowered. Just to clear up one thing, this is a double rope rapell correct? It seems obvious that it would not make sense to weight only one end of the rope or else you would die.
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saxfiend
Aug 22, 2005, 1:39 AM
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In reply to: Thanks for the detailed info. It is much clearer to me now, though it seems a little more complicated than being lowered. Just to clear up one thing, this is a double rope rapell correct? It seems obvious that it would not make sense to weight only one end of the rope or else you would die.
Of course, this applies to the subject at hand, single-pitch sport routes; multi-pitch rappelling is a separate subject that I'll leave to another thread and others' expertise.
JL
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halepierce
Aug 22, 2005, 2:45 AM
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When you're ready to rappel and start cleaning the route you can have you're partner "spot you" by grabbing the the two ends of the rope from the ground. He/she can serve as a brake for you by pulling on both sides of the rope to hold you in place. This is especially handy when the cleaning gets tricky or if you don't know how to back up your rappel.
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saxfiend
Aug 22, 2005, 3:26 AM
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In reply to: When you're ready to rappel and start cleaning the route you can have you're partner "spot you" by grabbing the the two ends of the rope from the ground. He/she can serve as a brake for you by pulling on both sides of the rope to hold you in place. This is especially handy when the cleaning gets tricky or if you don't know how to back up your rappel.
JL
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kalcario
Aug 22, 2005, 4:52 AM
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By all means learn how to rappel, but rapping off sport routes just to preserve anchor hardware is wrong-headed, because there are too many things that can go wrong rapping as opposed to lowering. Experienced climbers rappel only when they have to or it is the more practical alternative, not because they're worried about wear and tear on the anchors.
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chrisparedes
Aug 22, 2005, 5:39 AM
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That's the answer I was looking for. Thanks, now I understand how it works. Lowering seems safer and is fine with me.
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andrewbanandrew
Aug 22, 2005, 5:41 AM
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To add: in many sport climbing areas it is generally accepted to lower off the anchors. I have a few guidebooks that actually specifically mention it.
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kalcario
Aug 22, 2005, 5:44 AM
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*When you're ready to rappel and start cleaning the route you can have you're partner "spot you" by grabbing the the two ends of the rope from the ground. He/she can serve as a brake for you by pulling on both sides of the rope to hold you in place.*
Except that standing below somebody who might knock off something loose or drop some piece of gear they're cleaning is a pretty bad idea. Just lower.
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robo555
Aug 22, 2005, 6:56 AM
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In reply to: Except that standing below somebody who might knock off something loose or drop some piece of gear they're cleaning is a pretty bad idea. Just lower.
Same could happen while belaying anyway.
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anykineclimb
Aug 22, 2005, 7:27 AM
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if you feel you'll have a difficult time cleaning the route or just a hard time rapping, you can completely pull the rope up (through all the draws) then it will be easier to clean the 'draws.
Note: don't do this on steep routes as you'll have a hell of a time staying in contact with the rock. In these cases, it better to leave the draws on the rope so you can pull yourself into the rock.
I hope that made sense...
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saxfiend
Aug 22, 2005, 11:33 AM
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In reply to: That's the answer I was looking for. Thanks, now I understand how it works. Lowering seems safer and is fine with me.
JL
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wackbag
Aug 23, 2005, 10:41 PM
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You guy's have great advice...Thanks
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chrisparedes
Aug 24, 2005, 12:06 AM
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Ya, thanks for the advice, very helpful.
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chrisparedes
Aug 24, 2005, 12:09 AM
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Ya, thanks for the advice, very helpful.
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oldsalt
Aug 24, 2005, 12:14 AM
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A Lesson Learned to share here:
I recently completed a lead at Foster Falls and clipped my slings into the anchor rings. I began to transition to my rappel setup and was pulling the rope through the rings when I realized that I had not tied the rope to my harness.
I had been very relaxed, doing something that I had done many times before and practiced in the gym, as well. I was just a fumble away from being left hanging in my slings, looking down at my rope.
As I tied the rope, I realized that I would at least consider down-climbing before asking the people on the next route to run my rope back up to me. The potential humiliation was awesome.
Make yourself work through the process step-by-step. Don't ever take it for granted and just go through the motions. There was a fall at Foster this year, which was described as taking place during this exact maneuver.
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395climber
Aug 24, 2005, 12:45 AM
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In reply to: By all means learn how to rappel, but rapping off sport routes just to preserve anchor hardware is wrong-headed, because there are too many things that can go wrong rapping as opposed to lowering. Experienced climbers rappel only when they have to or it is the more practical alternative, not because they're worried about wear and tear on the anchors.
I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree with this entire statement.
First, preserving anchor hardware contributes to the safety of us all, which is a wonderful way to look at our shared resources. Lowering contributes to the convenience of the leader, which is hardly wrongheaded, more like lazy.
Second, there are plenty of things that can go wrong with lowering. You are depending on your belayer and the communication with that person, and while I don't climb with belayers I don't trust, I still trust myself more. The belayer is also not in as good a position as the climber/rapper to judget the proper speed for lowering, especially where ledges and roofs might come into play.
There are also plenty of anchors at the top of sport routes where to either lower or rappel, the rope must be untied to be run through the anchors (i.e. cold shuts). In those cases, there is very little to recommend lowering over rapping, as long as you are qualified to rappel.
Rappeling safely is an important part of any climber's "safety toolkit" - you never know when you might be called upon to rappel when your belayer is incapacitated by rockfall or in other rare circumstances. Comfort with the process, best gained by repeating it in non-stressful situations, is the best way to make sure you are capable if the sh*t ever does hit the fan.
The first two posts in the thread were pretty much perfect - you should rappel off many sport routes rather than lowering, and you should get someone you trust to watch you carefully the first few times. Get out there, learn some new skills, preserve our resources and have fun.
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jt512
Aug 24, 2005, 1:28 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Except that standing below somebody who might knock off something loose or drop some piece of gear they're cleaning is a pretty bad idea. Just lower. Same could happen while belaying anyway.
Maybe you should stand off to the side a bit, eh?
-Jay
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jt512
Aug 24, 2005, 1:30 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: That's the answer I was looking for. Thanks, now I understand how it works. Lowering seems safer and is fine with me. It may be the answer you were looking for, but it isn't necessarily the right one. Rappelling, not lowering, is standard procedure in the sport areas around here, in my experience. JL
In your whole year of experience, according to your profile.
-Jay
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saxfiend
Aug 24, 2005, 11:55 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: That's the answer I was looking for. Thanks, now I understand how it works. Lowering seems safer and is fine with me. It may be the answer you were looking for, but it isn't necessarily the right one. Rappelling, not lowering, is standard procedure in the sport areas around here, in my experience. JL In your whole year of experience, according to your profile. -Jay
JL
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daithi
Aug 24, 2005, 1:17 PM
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How many of you actually rap off a single pitch sports route? I have been to a quite a few different sports crags in the UK and Italy and have only ever seen a handful of people rap from the anchors in the UK and I'm sure they were trad climbers having a day out at a sports crag! :) Everyone else lowers off.
So how common is it for sport climbers to rap off sports routes in the US?
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saxfiend
Aug 24, 2005, 1:36 PM
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In reply to: How many of you actually rap off a single pitch sports route? I have been to a quite a few different sports crags in the UK and Italy and have only ever seen a handful of people rap from the anchors in the UK and I'm sure they were trad climbers having a day out at a sports crag! :) Everyone else lowers off. So how common is it for sport climbers to rap off sports routes in the US?
JL
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