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changling
Aug 24, 2005, 12:20 AM
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In reply to: stop being a crybaby LCD just because you can't climb as hard as sharma.
Wait a minute, if Sharma is such an amazing climber, why couldn't he climb the thing in the same style as everybody else? Seems more like he's just a little pussy that wanted the bring the climb down to his level.
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jred
Aug 24, 2005, 12:32 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: stop being a crybaby LCD just because you can't climb as hard as sharma. Wait a minute, if Sharma is such an amazing climber, why couldn't he climb the thing in the same style as everybody else? Seems more like he's just a little sissy that wanted the bring the climb down to his level. |
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changling
Aug 24, 2005, 12:40 AM
Post #28 of 159
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In reply to: I am sorry but did you even read any of the posts? Are you not understanding that this is an aid climb. Are you aware that Sharma is not an aid climber?
Why doesn't he learn then? I did. I guess the possibility of a fall that's more than a couple feet scares him too much. He's just gotta bring it down to his level, because he just doesn't have the skill and mental capacity to do it the style everybody else did it in.
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caughtinside
Aug 24, 2005, 12:44 AM
Post #29 of 159
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In reply to: In reply to: I am sorry but did you even read any of the posts? Are you not understanding that this is an aid climb. Are you aware that Sharma is not an aid climber? Why doesn't he learn then? I did. I guess the possibility of a fall that's more than a couple feet scares him too much. He's just gotta bring it down to his level, because he just doesn't have the skill and mental capacity to do it the style everybody else did it in.
I think you have no clue what you are talking about. Are you willing to take freeclimbing falls on to Rurps?
We are all very proud that you learned to aid climb.
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jkarns
Aug 24, 2005, 1:00 AM
Post #30 of 159
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If you care about this, you have no idea what climbing is all about.
On a tangent, are you sure Chris physically bolted this with his own two hands? I've never heard of him actually bolting anything.
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changling
Aug 24, 2005, 1:05 AM
Post #31 of 159
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In reply to: I think you have no clue what you are talking about. Are you willing to take freeclimbing falls on to Rurps?
The issue here is retro-bolting. I don't give a shit if Sharma can climb the odd 5.15. Reality is, he couldn't climb something that was A3 so he modified an established route that has been climbed by others and brought it down to something he can do. Certainly not the act of a great climber.
In reply to: We are all very proud that you learned to aid climb.
Ok? Strange thing to be proud of. Good for you, I guess.
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jakedatc
Aug 24, 2005, 3:15 AM
Post #32 of 159
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free climbing an aid route bringing it down?
aid climbing: staircase of gear... :roll:
yes.. so much more difficult than climbing it with your fingers and toes...
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changling
Aug 24, 2005, 3:20 AM
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If aid is so easy, why didn't Sharma aid it then?
Besides, freeing a route isn't what brings it down. Adding bolts does.
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flamer
Aug 24, 2005, 4:44 AM
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In reply to: Are you willing to take freeclimbing falls on to Rurps?
Alex Huber was willing to risk big falls onto beaks....
josh
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flamer
Aug 24, 2005, 4:50 AM
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In reply to: I've never heard of him actually bolting anything.
He bolted a route in Pinnacle's National mountment shortly after he started climbing.....it was right on a very popular hiking trail....At the time he said "we weren't even sure it would go!".. "we just bolted it and eventually it did!" ...it went at 5.14a.
So to some it up: he put in several bolts with direct impact to a popular hiking trail without even being sure that the route could be freed.
A route that can be climbed by the upper 5%(?) of the climbing community....good call.
josh
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jh_angel
Aug 24, 2005, 4:54 AM
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First off I just want to say, local ethics rule. Now, onto a few questions I've got...
Wasn't aid climbing designed to climb things that couldn't be free climbed? i.e. 6th class climbs. So what's the big deal about freeing a route? I mean I don't remember anyone complaining when Tommy Caldwell freed the Dihedral Wall and he had to add bolts to do that. So if it is ok to free an aid route you have one of three choices, trad, sport and top rope. Looking at pictures of the route in question it seems that Sharma didn't have the options of trad or top rope for this climb. Just some thoughts, I'd like to hear some responses.
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quiteatingmysteak
Aug 24, 2005, 4:59 AM
Post #37 of 159
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In reply to: I think if an aid climb needs to be bolted to be freed, then it should not be freed at all.
Also See: American Sport Climbing History (1983-present)
Also See: Great American Fist Fights; A Kauk and Bach
Also See: Big Ego VS Big Idiot - A compendium of Bull
People will do what they will do. Ethics call bolting on Lead is above Rap bolting, yet often to bolt on lead people will chisel out edges to hold their hooks. To fight for ethics is to lose sight of what ethics are. If someone does something that pisses you off you are not alone in this world. Truth be told most of us are both victims and oppressers.
We want to give our future climbers a clean world, but we also want them to have something that is worth doing - ruining eachother over ethics is not worth the assortments of minerals that make the great towers of this earth.
Call me crazy, but an ethics wars sounds a lot like an oxymoron.
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epic_ed
Aug 24, 2005, 5:11 AM
Post #38 of 159
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epic_ed moved this thread from Aid Climbing to General.
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vanclimber
Aug 24, 2005, 5:44 AM
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Rurp Riot is right across from Silent Menace (another sport climb)near the entrance to the room. It is on the west face of Cacaodemon, slightly north of Youngblood (another sport climb.) Pretty sure no one in Squamish is miffed about this bolt job.
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metrogroaz
Aug 24, 2005, 7:38 AM
Post #40 of 159
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I feel compelled to say this as a non aid climber..... If a free ascent is possible, and it takes bolts, Trad Pro, or RP, then let it be...... I myself have only led sport 5.11, have yet to try trad leading.... so take my words as they weigh, nothing...... but I will aid hard climbs in future and have been building a rack to lead my first trad climb..... I just love being above gear, whether biner or cam/RP, just so i feel the exhilaration... can anyone agree?
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backclipped
Aug 24, 2005, 10:19 AM
Post #41 of 159
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Being above the gear--any piece of gear--and hearing your beaners jingle or your rack clank as you make haste to the next stance for a shake and some pro...one of the infinite scores of climbing pleasantries.
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jkarns
Aug 24, 2005, 11:56 AM
Post #42 of 159
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In reply to: Being above the gear--any piece of gear--and hearing your beaners jingle or your rack clank as you make haste to the next stance for a shake and some pro...one of the infinite scores of climbing pleasantries.
Yeah, its right up there with being above a fat bolt and thanking god its not a postage stamp sized piece of metal tapped gingerly into a seam.
We're talking about a short practice aid route on a BOULDER located right next to sport routes in the middle of one of the most popular boulder fields in the world!!!
When will climbers realize that these internal battles do nothing but make us look bad.
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leaverbiner
Aug 24, 2005, 12:25 PM
Post #43 of 159
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In reply to: If aid is so easy, why didn't Sharma aid it then? Besides, freeing a route isn't what brings it down. Adding bolts does.
When I saw yor first post I thought it was a troll . . then a second post and I figured "hmmm, maybe still a troll". Now this and looking at your bio, I realize it's not a troll just a completely ignorant person!
AID v. Sport - you tell me who CLIMBED the route! Are you kidding me that you think that aiding the route is HARDER or some how climbing the route?
Get a clue. Let's break it down for you . . . Aid - place gear, jug, place gear, jug. Sport . . . actually use your own hands and feet to ascend the rock using fixed gear for protection.
Get out and actually climb and you might understand the difference!
UNREAL!
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paulc
Aug 24, 2005, 4:36 PM
Post #44 of 159
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I still vote troll, but then I can't be bothered to check his user page.
Yeah, the Huber's climb hard above rurps thousands of feet off the ground. I don't think they would do that 25 feet from the deck. Quite different consequences. Besides that is one case, most (pretty much everyone else) wouldn't even think about climbing 5.13 or 14 above rurps at any height. Some people solo things that have bolts, does that mean we should pull all bolts that have had free solo ascents, of course not.
I don't think Sharma bolted it, but I don't think that matters. In addition if you bolt something and then later it doesn't go, you can either open the project up or take the bolts out and patch the rock. Of course the rock isn't the same anymore, but will anyone notice if the patch job is a good one, of course not.
Lets let this die here, as we all keep saying this is not an issue worth discussing any further.
Paul
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caughtinside
Aug 24, 2005, 4:44 PM
Post #45 of 159
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In reply to: In reply to: I think you have no clue what you are talking about. Are you willing to take freeclimbing falls on to Rurps? The issue here is retro-bolting. I don't give a s--- if Sharma can climb the odd 5.15. Reality is, he couldn't climb something that was A3 so he modified an established route that has been climbed by others and brought it down to something he can do. Certainly not the act of a great climber. In reply to: We are all very proud that you learned to aid climb. Ok? Strange thing to be proud of. Good for you, I guess.
You guys think she's a troll? I'm going to have to go with fu(king idiot.
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billcoe_
Aug 24, 2005, 4:48 PM
Post #46 of 159
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In reply to: In reply to: I totally dare you to go yank those bolts and mail them back to Sharma in a box. Tell him real Canadians don't retrobolt the routes! Anything else is just words. DMT I like the way you think... ha ha ha...
I want to see this documented with pics when you do it! Please include a pic of Royal Robbins and John Bachar in the box with those bolts! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
BTW: if your story is true, you have as much, nay, even MORE right, to pull that crap out of there and fix it to the way you think it should be.
Personally, I would't care one way or the other. really. Alan Watts put some bolts for freeing into some aid climbs on the Monkee Face which I gratefully clip each and every time I get on one of them. Alan was not only a local, he was THE local. Furthermore, that was in keeping with the whole Smith Rocks attitute, and he didn't add any bolts to the first pitch of the East Face, which is amazing by itself, although he replaced the crappy P1 anchors for obvious reasons.
But I digress: you have MORE right to fix the route than Sharma had to put the bolts in: again, if it's a true story as you describe it.
He apparently didn't ask your opinion and just put them in there - no need to ask his when you chop them off.
whatta waiting for?
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memory_hole
Aug 24, 2005, 4:50 PM
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[quote="flamer"]In reply to: So to some it up: he put in several bolts with direct impact to a popular hiking trail [..] A route that can be climbed by the upper 5%(?) of the climbing community....good call. |
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changling
Aug 24, 2005, 5:02 PM
Post #48 of 159
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Funny how all the people who replied saying that sport is harder than aid, none of you have aid listed in your bag of tricks. :lol: Just because you and and the ass you want to kiss can't climb A3, doesn't mean the established route should be retro-bolted.
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flamer
Aug 24, 2005, 5:05 PM
Post #49 of 159
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[quote="memory_hole"]In reply to: In reply to: So to some it up: he put in several bolts with direct impact to a popular hiking trail [..] A route that can be climbed by the upper 5%(?) of the climbing community....good call. So your beef is what, exactly? Is it that the handful of people in the world that can actually climb this route are now crowding an already popular hiking trail?
Simple...there are tons of places to climb(and climb 5.14) and yet Sharma and his buddies felt the need to place bolts right next to a trail where all kind's of people will see them...in a National monument. Now consider that they may have been placing bolts that would never be used...ie they didn't TR the climb first so they weren't sure the climb would go. Now consider that they did so for a climb that next to nobody will climb. Sounds like a really good idea huh? Land managers love this kind of thing.
josh
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flamer
Aug 24, 2005, 5:08 PM
Post #50 of 159
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In reply to: I mean I don't remember anyone complaining when Tommy Caldwell freed the Dihedral Wall and he had to add bolts to do that.
Caldwell didn't add bolts to the route. He bolted some slight variations to the route but the bolts were off the Orig. line.
josh
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