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laurams01
Jul 29, 2002, 12:23 AM
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do Carabiners ever wear out?
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apollodorus
Jul 29, 2002, 12:54 AM
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They can get worn out by the rope sliding through them under tension, like when you're rapping or lowering someone. Dirt on the rope can act like sandpaper, wearing the metal away.
They can also get large nicks in them from clipping into bolt hangers, which tend to have thin sharp edges.
The gates can also get dented and bent, so that they are hard to open and close.
Repeated high loading can theoretically fatigue the metal and cause it to crack, but I haven't ever heard of this actually happening. The number of cycles and/or the high loads required just don't happen in normal climbing.
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texasclimber
Jul 29, 2002, 3:33 PM
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When you start to get a groove in your biner, keep an eye on it. If it gets pretty bad, get a new one. I plan on changing mine out about once a year to be safe.
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yossarian
Jul 29, 2002, 4:21 PM
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If you're changing 'biners once a year, how about selling me you old ones?
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killclimbz
Jul 29, 2002, 5:00 PM
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texasclimber,
I will be happy to safety test your year old biners. Please PM me when you plan to retire a few.
laurams01, in all seriousness biners do wear out. It takes time though. I have several that are around 14 years old that are just fine. I also have retired many that I have bought in the last 5 years or less.
If you start getting deep grooves in your biners it's time to replace them. If you drop them from a hieght of more than just a few feet it's time to consider replacing that biner. This is especially true if it hits something hard like a rock on the fall. If it hits grass you are probably okay. This is a judgement call though. If it fell from say 300 ft I would consider it wasted no matter what it hit.
Otherwise carabiners are one of your more durable pieces of gear. As with any piece of gear, I would imagine there is probably after a certain amount of time you shouldn't rely on the biner anymore. Maybe JT can enlighten us on this.
Improvements in technology (such as increased strenght ratings etc) may make some carabiners absolete, though I have yet to see this. They have become lighter, but that has been the only compelling (besides for wear and tear) argument for me to upgrade through the years.
Finally take care of your gear. The more you abuse it the less use you will get out of it. So limit your abuse to your climbing, not other things such are leaving them in the dirt etc.
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sparky
Jul 29, 2002, 5:22 PM
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yes they can get worn, as can a super eight and just about every other piece of gear you'd think couldn't get worn out
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fitz
Jul 29, 2002, 5:34 PM
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Well, I do retire my big belay locker once a year (occassionally sooner), but I'd want a liability release before forwarding the old ones to you generous folks offering testing...
As for biners on my regular rack, I eyeball them for wear and damage, but they pretty much seem to last forever. I did bite the bullet and retired some ovals a couple of years ago. The biners seemed sound, but the spring in the gates were getting pretty weak. I noticed that I could make the gates in a couple of them visibly bounce if I shock loaded them. But, they were biners I'd bought when Reagan was president, so I figure I got my money's worth.
-jjf
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yossarian
Jul 29, 2002, 5:42 PM
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Quote:
If you drop them from a hieght of more than just a few feet it's time to consider replacing that biner.
Only if your 'biners are made of glass.
Don't regurgitate false information.
[ This Message was edited by: yossarian on 2002-07-29 10:43 ]
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cragchica
Jul 29, 2002, 7:14 PM
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'Biners that need to be retired look like they need to be retired. They might wear where the rope passes over the metal. They might be dented over time. Or the gates might start to stick open. These 'biners should be replaced. As for 'biners needing to be replaced because they were dropped and might have invisible micro-fractures... aluminum is soft, it will dent befot fracturing.
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killclimbz
Jul 29, 2002, 7:44 PM
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Any hard blow to a biner needs to be considered. I'm not sure where people are getting their info, but any company will tell you if a biner takes a hard blow to retire it. Of course this is a judgement call. I never went into the details, but if your biner shows signs of damage from a fall it probably shouldn't be used. Hmm, not sure about the dent vs microfracture statement. I do know any manufacturer I have talked to doesn't recomend that you use it after it strikes something like rock from a good distance. BD will x-ray equipment (their equipment only possibly) for you to make sure it isn't damaged. At least they used to. It's been awhile since I sent anything into them.
[ This Message was edited by: killclimbz on 2002-07-29 13:04 ]
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killclimbz
Jul 29, 2002, 7:47 PM
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Oh yeah, about the gates sticking open. That information is very incorrect. Just use a non oil based lubricant, like silicon spray. You may need to wash some grit out first. If the spring is busted on the gate (so that it flops around) then it's time to toss it.
There are a myriad of other scenarios for keeping or retiring a biner. Your judgement is your best friend in these decisions.
[ This Message was edited by: killclimbz on 2002-07-29 12:54 ]
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h0und
Jul 29, 2002, 7:52 PM
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You should replace any biner that is 5 years old. After 5 years you should not chance it at all. I'm not saying trash it, i'm saying do not use it for climbing in anyway. Tow your vehicle, drag some gear etc... 5 Years is the limit on a biner even if you don't use it. Any type of biner for that matter.
H0unD
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yossarian
Jul 29, 2002, 8:01 PM
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QUOTE:
5 Years is the limit on a biner even if you don't use it.
You got to be trolling on this one...
Does anyone else want to spray urban myths?
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mreardon
Jul 29, 2002, 8:04 PM
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If it is dropped, replace it. Your life isn't worth a couple bucks? If it looks worn, it is worn. But there's no need to replace them every year. Like someone else mentioned, some last years, others a few months, it all depends on usage.
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killclimbz
Jul 29, 2002, 8:07 PM
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I've got to agree with yossarian on this one. 5 years is not the limit on a biner. It is really a matter of use and what they have been subjected to.
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billcoe_
Aug 1, 2002, 4:22 AM
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killclimbz: I'm curious on what numbers you've seen on your testing.
Side note to laurams01: hell yes you retire them. I retired my Liberty and Eiger ovals after 10-15 years. (Went to other climbers BTW). BUT the origoanl specs on those tested to less than 2000 lbs. They were replaced with Bonati D's that tested to over 4000 lbs an were larger stock. I retired those as they're 15 years old and the gates are sticking. Got Petzl spirts, a whole rack, hmmm so light and strong. Still use the old ones for toproping.
That being said, it is amazingly rare for a carabiner to fail. When you hear of it, it is usually because they were not hanging free and pinched over a rock in an unusual or sideways manner.
The belay carabiner MUST be Bomb-proof IMO and I can tell you I'd climb with Fitz any day. I too have new lockers, but again, my old lockers get used for toproping still.
Regards;
Bill Coe_
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timpanogos
Aug 1, 2002, 5:05 AM
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I climb with 50+ year old who has been trading for who knows how long - reminds me of the smelly old guy thread that went on around here for awhile - he has some old BD cams - funky grey rubber/plastic around twin wires like TCU's only all the way up to big sizes, with way horrible triggers - anyway - he has some binners that look like they surived world war I - I have often looked at his biners and said to myself - glad he's leading on those guys not me - I carry my own rack - to get used to my gear and the weight (and new binners!) - luckly for me, he has newer locking biners for the anchors. By the way, yes a stinky old trad climber has taught me a very great deal - including old trad climbers (and their binners) never die! I guess like most gear retirement issues, the mental part of the deal is a big part of it.
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mauta
Aug 1, 2002, 3:01 PM
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hOund wrote:
"You should replace any biner that is 5 years old. After 5 years you should not chance it at all. I'm not saying trash it, i'm saying do not use it for climbing in anyway. Tow your vehicle, drag some gear etc... 5 Years is the limit on a biner even if you don't use it. Any type of biner for that matter".
hOund,
is this your personal opinion, or have you read it from SOME SERIOUS SOURCE??
If it is the later, can you tell us where do you have taken it from??
I will be pretty surprised if there is some serious testing backing your statement...
Thanks,
JUAN
[ Este Mensaje fue editado por: mauta el 2002-08-01 08:02 ]
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