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roshiaitareya
Oct 27, 2005, 10:12 PM
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So I looked up the Warmlite bags... and besides the fact that the website is full of nudie pics (for some reason everyone is sleeping in the buff) I did notice that the bags weigh something like 6.5 pounds. That's pretty stinkin heavy considering my bag (Sierra Designs convertible) is right around 3lbs. I love the one I have, it's rated to 0 degrees, but it compresses down to about 10 X 8 inches and is 775 fill. I think I paid 200 bones for it.
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franko
Oct 27, 2005, 11:17 PM
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In reply to: So I looked up the Warmlite bags... and besides the fact that the website is full of nudie pics (for some reason everyone is sleeping in the buff) I did notice that the bags weigh something like 6.5 pounds. That's pretty stinkin heavy considering my bag (Sierra Designs convertible) is right around 3lbs. I love the one I have, it's rated to 0 degrees, but it compresses down to about 10 X 8 inches and is 775 fill. I think I paid 200 bones for it.
I couldn't find the SD convertible in down. Near as I could come was this http://www.sierradesigns.com/bags.display.php?id=424 at almost 4 pounds. Keep in mind, you still need to carry something to sleep on. If you're sleeping on snow you need about 3 lb of foam to get the same insulation on the bottom as the warmlite gives with the built in pad. With just the thick top the warmlite weighs 5.3 lb & is rated to 10 below zero. But it ain't cheap, for sure.
The bag design, the catalog, the vapor barrier lining, etc. are all somewhat odd and off-putting, and if I had not had the experience of a friend to rely on I probably would not have bought the bag. But after 30 years use it has proved the best sleeping system I've used in the Cascades, & that includes both down and synthetic mummies on a variety of pads.
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zott
Oct 27, 2005, 11:28 PM
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In reply to: Just got to say..... love the RAB bag. A little english company based out of Sheffield called RAB, makes some awesome gear. I am not aware if they sell their stuff out here, but its worth looking into. Yann
Yeah, I'm a big RAB fan myself. Have a 1000gm bag, goose down, bought it in 1991, still using it, though it's lost some of it's original loft. I use it with a Bibler bivi sack (1/2 perlon, 1/2 goretex) for open bivis. I've been toasty at -30 deg F with some wind using this setup. (It took about 30 seconds for a cup of water to freeze solid).
Make sure you have a nice sleeping pad underneath, since a lot of heat is lost into the ground. I find that thermarests are too slick for a bivi, and the sleeping bag invariably slides off it in the night. A ridge rest or similar works better to prevent this.
Just my 2 bits..
--Zott
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roshiaitareya
Oct 28, 2005, 8:31 PM
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I'm not sure what sleeping pad you're using that weighs 3 pounds. Mine is an inch thick thermarest and it weighs just over 1 pounds. And it was only 45 bucks. So for less than $250 I got a bag that works great for winter, and weighs nearly nothing. I'm not saying the warmlite bags are crap, I've never used one. But for how much they weigh, how bulky they look, and how awfully expensive they are they just don't seem worth it. But that's just me, I go for the minimalist approach too....
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xtrmecat
Oct 28, 2005, 9:31 PM
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I have a North Face Solar Flare and have spent a total of a week in snow caves in this bag and a few nights in a tent as well. These were not nice weather nights or warn trips and with my Thermarest pad I am warmer than the other two previous down bags owned. It packs down real small and has all the right features, baffles and such.
The bag freeze dried nicely,as I am usually very wet after digging into a huge drift on the mountainside,and I find that important to being comfortable when climbing.
Here is the bag:http://www.thenorthface.com/opencms/opencms/tnf/gear.jsp?productId=8449
Just my two cents but I definitely have no regrets.
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pico23
Oct 30, 2005, 11:03 PM
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In reply to: If so, what would you recommend? Or do you think I could get by with what I've got? I'm pretty sure I want to go with down, I have the experience I believe to be safe with it and I feel the pros far outway the cons, is DryLoft worth it? Basically, what are your thoughts?
Probably something more in the 0F range. Colorado is pretty temperate and arid. I get by with a OF in a tent with my system down to at least -20. Outside the tent this system works well too. This is mainly in the northeast. My winter camping in colorado has been using a -15f synthetic bag and dryloft bag cover. Snow caves and tents mostly. I prefer down but that was an older bag that I had for a long time. I now exclusively use down over the winter with the following.
Personally, I like a 0F down bag with a bivy sack or bag cover. 650fill over 800 only because 1) it's a ton cheaper 2) marginally heavier and less compact 3) more durable to stuffing/compression. This system works well to -20F in a tent
for multinights I add a vapor barrier which keeps the bags loft safe from perspiration and adds another 5-10F warmth. Your talking -30F (outside ambient) in a tent with almost no loss of loft over a multiday trip.
If I had the cash to dedicate to a 850+fill bag I'd go western mountianeering or feathered friends with a dryloft shell. They'll adjust the fill to your liking and put more in spots you typically get cold.
The advantage of my system is you can use it in or out of a tent. No loss in loft and if something should happen to the tent you always have a perfectly warm shelter/sleep system. Weight wise the whole thing weighs in at just over 5lbs total.
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pico23
Oct 30, 2005, 11:09 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Western Mountaineering. There is nothing that comes close... To make things simpler, get yourself a decent bivy sack...something fairly light, and wear your down jacket and some of the extra clothes you bring with you to bed. This should get you through all but the absolute coldest temps...as long as you are out of the elements. The bivy will add quite a bit of warmth to your bag.
I've never been a big fan of wearing my insulation to bed. I prefer just to wear my base layer. You are going to wet the insulation out by wearing it to sleep.
But those are the two systems: lighter bag and ALL your clothing or slightly warmer bag vapor barrier and NONE of your clothing. Whatever works best for you. The bivy sack is definitely the best way to go though.
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cchas
Nov 1, 2005, 2:40 PM
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Dryloft lets water moisture out of the bag just fine (not saying this because I work for WL Gore, but I just got back from living in a down sleeping bag for a month (on an expedition in the Himalayas)). For -10 or colder bags down is the only way to go (synthetics are way too bulky and heavy) and with it a Dryloft covering rules....
Myself, I use an old TNF womens bag called the Ridgeline (conservatively rated to -25F with space in the body at 4lbs 3oz)
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pico23
Nov 1, 2005, 4:11 PM
Post #34 of 37
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In reply to: Dryloft lets water moisture out of the bag just fine (not saying this because I work for WL Gore, but I just got back from living in a down sleeping bag for a month (on an expedition in the Himalayas)). For -10 or colder bags down is the only way to go (synthetics are way too bulky and heavy) and with it a Dryloft covering rules.... Myself, I use an old TNF womens bag called the Ridgeline (conservatively rated to -25F with space in the body at 4lbs 3oz)
Depends on the climate weather dry loft lets the moisture out. DryLoft can't possibly breath better than standard uncoated taffeta (spelled something like that).
Anyway, your bag is dealing with moisture from condensation and from perspiration. Even if you don't get it wet from condensation it is getting progressively wetter due to perspiration. This is why arctic expeditions use synthetics (typically). Down however works reasonably well if you account for both types of lotf reducing moisture causes and don't breath in the bag.
As a side note the dryest environment I've lived outdoors in has been Utah or Colorado. Typically the winter places I spend time in have humidities between 50 and 70% meaning things tend to get wet and don't dry out. I have not a clue how dry it is in the Himalaya other than weather info but I assume it is fairly dry, especially at altitude.
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talons05
Nov 1, 2005, 5:35 PM
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For the past year, I have been using a Marmot Lithium (0deg). It is 900 Fill down, with a pertex shell for protection from condensation. I got the long version of the bag which goes to 6'6"... I am 6'4" and it fits perfectly. The last time I used it was in February in northern CA, which I found to be a wetter environment compared to CO, where I usually climb. The shell works great for moisture without, but after only a few days, my perspiration was beginning to soak into the bag. After that, I started using a vapor barrier. With one of these, though, you CAN NOT sleep in your extra insulation, or it will get wet. With vapor barrier and tent, I have been into the negative teens and had to unzip and vent. If there's another person in the tent, we have to open a vent.
Western mountaineering makes good gear, but they are outrageous, and their stuff seems to sacrifice toughness for light weight.
Cheers,
A.W.
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cchas
Nov 1, 2005, 5:47 PM
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On Artic expeditions, bulk and weight usually aren't THAT much of an issue since you tend to pull gear in a pulk (a sled with solid poles to keep the sled off your skiis), whereas in what I do I find both weight and bulk to be major concerns which is why I use a down bag... Having said that in the Himalayas it is very dry (which is why the Khumbu cough occurs) but it is also very wet (snow most nights in the beginning of the trip). Also have used it during a 6 day stay in a bivi-sac (Bibler) during a snow storm without issues (except the degree that I reeked and couldn't stand my own smell (ok, too much information). Just my experiences
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pico23
Nov 2, 2005, 3:19 AM
Post #37 of 37
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In reply to: On Artic expeditions, bulk and weight usually aren't THAT much of an issue since you tend to pull gear in a pulk (a sled with solid poles to keep the sled off your skiis), whereas in what I do I find both weight and bulk to be major concerns which is why I use a down bag... Having said that in the Himalayas it is very dry (which is why the Khumbu cough occurs) but it is also very wet (snow most nights in the beginning of the trip). Also have used it during a 6 day stay in a bivi-sac (Bibler) during a snow storm without issues (except the degree that I reeked and couldn't stand my own smell (ok, too much information). Just my experiences
I definitely agree with you on down. But I believe at lower elevations or wetter environments you need a vapor barrier, especially if you add a dry loft shell or a bivy sack for 2 or more nights. Or I just perspire a lot even when i'm seemingly comfortable.
Hey, in probably 5-10 years down will be like film. Something we use for nostalgic purposes, until then it's still the best insulator around, with wool a close second.
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