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omerdimsum
Feb 24, 2006, 7:18 PM
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I think last weekend while climbing at Joshua Tree / Indian Cove's Short Wall, the Boy Scouts mistakenly grabbed my Mountain Hardware synthetic belay jacket.
Anyone know how/who to contact at Joshua Tree to track down that specific Boy Scout troop???
Flame away of you so choose, but it kinda' boils my blood...Back in the day when I was in the Boy Scouts, we would have been reamed (no puns) if we acted the way that I directly experienced them acting last weekend --loud/obnoxious, taking someone else's jacket, leaving food and trash, reckless climbing activity, etc.
Thanks.
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nevenneve
Feb 24, 2006, 7:24 PM
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Hence the reason they are no longer a faith based organization. Somewhat of an organization for nerdy troublemakers from broken homes nowadays.
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el_guapo
Feb 24, 2006, 7:31 PM
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You're a lame ass to post on a public forum that you "think" so and so stole your jacket. If you or someone in your party didn't see it happen don't assume. You just make yourself look like an idiot. You're a grown up (my assumption) and you are responsible for your own sh*t!
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omerdimsum
Feb 24, 2006, 7:34 PM
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Hey el guapo lame ass, everything I stated was a direct experience. If I wasn't there myself, directly experiencing the situation, then I wouldn't have posted.
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omerdimsum
Feb 24, 2006, 7:35 PM
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Oh, and by the way, if you must know I only put "think" and "mistakenly" to be politically correct. Another person who was there, she had to tell the Boy Scouts three different times that her boots were not theirs, and to leave her boots alone.
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ninja_climber
Feb 24, 2006, 7:42 PM
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I don't like the Boy Scouts...there not a merit based organisation any more...They're an organized group of ghetto gansters with badges...
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phaedrus
Feb 24, 2006, 7:44 PM
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phaedrus moved this thread from General to Regional Discussions.
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pindrvr75
Feb 24, 2006, 8:10 PM
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Look up the phone # for the local Boy Scout Council for the area and call them and tell them what happened. Scout outings require a trip permit given from the council office.They'll know which troops were there on that day. You can get a phone # for the scoutmaster to check if any of his boys have your jacket.
Should that not resolve your problem, PM me and I'll try to take up a collection to replace your jacket.
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joeyo
Feb 24, 2006, 8:20 PM
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This is very off-topic from the original poster, but I can't help myself.
In reply to: Hence the reason they are no longer a faith based organization. Somewhat of an organization for nerdy troublemakers from broken homes nowadays.
Having seen a fair variety of groups of boy scouts and a somewhat narrower variety of comments about boy scouts in general, I'd like to summarise my observations.
1. Any group of boy scouts we run into is first and foremost a group of people, and thus can range from knowledgeable to bungling and thoughtful to cruel.
2. They tend to take over climbing walls which is uncool according to the rarely written climbers' code.
3. The Boy Scouts of America is a huge bureaucratic organisation, split into regions and states and council and eventually into troops and smaller groups. The BSA is not (in my opinion) well run or well organised. It does not actively recruit good leaders or train them beyond what people need to know for insurance and liability issues.
In my own experience, I watched my troop degrade to a large extent because we only had a small number of truly knowledgeable adult leaders who eventually left the group.
This decrease in adult leadership meant that the boys didn't have as much to gain and learn from them, and thus had less respect for them. I feel that this contributes to the view of scouts as trouble makers.
I also believe that there is a perception that the boy scouts can substitute for proper child rearing. This is simply not the case. I feel that the scouts work best when there are leaders who can gain the respect of the boys (not easy) and when parents participate with their sons in the learning process and share what they know. Learning together is growing together.
Now, just to clarify, I don't agree with the official BSA position on gays, athiests, girls, or just about any other social issue. I do however, believe that there is a lot to be gained in outdoor activities and encouraging leadership in young men.
The gains are not simple or easy and don't come in a can or book from the BSA. They require experienced, knowledgeable adult leaders who know how to be role models and realise that respect has to be earned. These gains require parent participation, not control. Many parents have just as much to learn from a boy scout troop as their sons do. Any boy scout troop lacking these attributes (or any group of people in general) will not accomplish as much towards the scouting ideals as one which does.
Omerdimsum, I hope you get your jacket back and that this experience doesn't further ruin your view of scouts in general. It doesn't take scouting to make people into jerks.
-Joe Olivier, Eagle Scout.
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omerdimsum
Feb 24, 2006, 8:24 PM
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I have calls into the Park system. I will also call the Boy Scout council.
I must say, for me the Boy Scouts was a formative piece of my youth. Not sure about all their politics in recent years, but some of those early Scout principles carried over into my life and my climbing. Still pissed about my jacket and their trash though...
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artm
Feb 24, 2006, 8:24 PM
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Yo JD
Rumor has it you got on Belay Girl.......didja happen to tighten that spinner bolt while you were up there? Course with your wingspan you don't have any problems clipping it unlike me.
hope you get your jacket back.
Gimme a call let's climb.
Art
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omerdimsum
Feb 24, 2006, 8:32 PM
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Hey Art,
To put that into context...uh...."Belay Girl" is the name of a route and "spinner" is a bolt.
That route was pretty hard for the grade. And no, I didn't get a chance to tighten the spinner.
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trenchdigger
Feb 24, 2006, 8:57 PM
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In reply to: Hey Art, To put that into context...uh...."Belay Girl" is the name of a route and "spinner" is a bolt. That route was pretty hard for the grade. And no, I didn't get a chance to tighten the spinner.
If anything, you may have loosened it a bit :wink:
Fortunately I was on the ground when the Scouts left or they'd have taken off with my therm-a-rest, and possibly other gear. I looked away for a minute and had to get my therm-a-rest out of the back of their truck. They were asking if other gear was theirs and I told them, "It's not mine, but you're not sure if it's yours, DON'T TAKE IT." They apparently didn't listen.
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glyrocks
Feb 24, 2006, 9:05 PM
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if your jacket was made out of $$'s, it probably wasn't a mistake.
--
In reply to: Hence the reason they are no longer a faith based organization
Puh-lease. :roll:
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braaaaaaaadley
Feb 24, 2006, 9:23 PM
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In reply to: I don't like the Boy Scouts...there not a merit based organisation any more...They're an organized group of ghetto gansters with badges...
In reply to: Hence the reason they are no longer a faith based organization. Somewhat of an organization for nerdy troublemakers from broken homes nowadays.
I do not know what the scouts are like in your area, but the members of my troop and the majority of the troops in my council were a group of fine young individuals. This has been my experience with the majority of the scouting operations I have ran into over the years. At times I have seen groups with kids running all over the place being obnoxious, but this is not the scout's fault, it is the adult leadership's fault; and as I have said before, this is a pretty rare occurrence. Perhaps instead of putting down this organization as a whole (based on your one or two negative experiences with scouting), why not volunteer some of your time to teach local scouts that you call "troublemakers" and "ghetto gangsters" how to be responsible young adults.
Brad White, Eagle Scout
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ninja_climber
Feb 25, 2006, 3:06 PM
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I only posted from what experiance I had with them. Plus if you look at my location...I don't think I'm in a position to help out...
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ninja_climber
Feb 25, 2006, 3:07 PM
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I only posted from what experiance I had with them. Plus if you look at my location...I don't think I'm the proper geographical location to help out...something like 5,000 miles I think :wink:
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bootlegger
Feb 25, 2006, 4:08 PM
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I really wasn't going to get into this, but I can't help myself. Boy Scouts, like any other national group, will have pockets of excellent leadership and programs, and pockets of poor leadership and programs. My son is an Eagle Scout, and I've been an active leader in Scouts for 10 years. For the last five, I've had the pleasure of being with one of the most outstanding groups of adult leaders and young men I've ever been associated with. I have watched these boys, including my son, grow into young men who respect others, work as a team, give back to their community and hold themselves to high moral and ethical standards. I am immensely proud of this group of young men, many of whom have made their way to Eagle. Without questions, Boy Scouting has been one of the most positive influences in my son's life (and mine). Within the next 12-18 months, many of these young men will be going off to college, and a new generation of adult leaders and boys will take over the troop. I hope they have the same great experience we did.
Please don't judge the entire organization based on a small sample. Good troops demand respect and integrity from the boys, and especially when involved in high adventure and potentially dangerous activities like wilderness backpacking or rock climbing or whitewater rafting, etc. Somebody said it earlier, the quality of the troop is a direct reflection of the quality of the adult leadership. There is a lot of good training available for leaders, but many don't take advantage of it.
In fact, instead of griping, why don't you try and help provide a positive influence to a young life. Very few troops have adequate expertise in climbing, and all I know would love to have an experienced climber volunteer to help out!
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murf
Mar 1, 2006, 6:31 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: That route was pretty hard for the grade. And no, I didn't get a chance to tighten the spinner. Remind me to tell you sometime about how TG put in that first (hard to get to) bolt.
JD - Where ya been hiding? You let some punk boy scout lift your jacket? More importantly, WTF are you doing at the Short Wall? You got lots of 'splaining to do.
Art - You always wonder if TG is kidding when he tells ya stuff. I did some route of his, clipped the 1st three bolts. Clipped a pin, after which he sez, "Glad you got to the pin, those bolts went in with about 3 hammer whacks!". Thankfully, all the equipment on that route has since been replaced ( Grey Cell Green ).
Murf
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artm
Mar 2, 2006, 12:13 AM
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Murf
(What's with da mountain man beard btw) TG told me something about a stick and the small of his back.......maybe RV can confirm.
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murf
Mar 2, 2006, 12:28 AM
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In reply to: Murf (What's with da mountain man beard btw) TG told me something about a stick and the small of his back.......maybe RV can confirm.
The beard has a mind of its own, comes and goes.....
Without checking sources, I know that DE probably had more to do with it than RV. I know the clips felt far enough away to be DE's work. I believe the eponymous girl was our own MF-E ( dang their are a lot of initials in this post ).
JD still can't believe some punk Weblo got the best of you.
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artm
Mar 2, 2006, 12:49 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Murf (What's with da mountain man beard btw) TG told me something about a stick and the small of his back.......maybe RV can confirm. The beard has a mind of its own, comes and goes..... Without checking sources, I know that DE probably had more to do with it than RV. I know the clips felt far enough away to be DE's work. I believe the eponymous girl was our own MF-E ( dang their are a lot of initials in this post ). JD still can't believe some punk Weblo got the best of you.
That's WEBELO not weblo. And there not their.
You're right of course....DE put in the spinner and all but the first bolt according to TG.
I didn't know MF-E was the girl.
I only mention RV as he is the closest thing to a walking talking history/guidebook we have regular access to.
I think we just hijacked JD's thread.
oh well, back to lurking
AM
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holdeddie
Mar 2, 2006, 12:54 AM
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listen, I have been in they BSA sice I was in the first grade (tiger cubs)
I am now scheduling my eagle ceremony which will be next month. Point being that the BSA has been the best program I have EVER been involved in. They are actually very well organized and they are always run efficiently. All the boys in my troop and other troops are the kind of people you would like to surrond yourself with, they are fine young men they all have values, morals that they uphold and support. I am dissappointed to see climbers downtalking the BSA the BSA has supported climbing since its begining. On the other hand there could be one bad person in a troop that would take ur jacket. but the great thing about scouts is that when these bad people are arond the older ones who teach good values and morals it brings them up and everyone else in the trrop up.
Sorry u lost ur jacket
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