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cellardoor
Mar 13, 2006, 8:43 PM
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Ok, so i've bouldered for some years and i just decided to switch over to sport climbing (after many finger injuries).
So first thing i noticed is i had no endurance or technique for saving energy. I've spent the last 6 weeks learning how to shake out and climb slowly and place my hands instead of deadpointing everything and that has been fun. I've reached the point where i can pretty consistently climb up 4-5 50 ft. overhung jug hauls in a session before getting completely pumped.
However, this is getting boring and whenever i jump on something harder (say a mid 10) i get pumped out completely and have alot of trouble finding rests and saving energy.
Now for the question. Is getting better at sport climbing all about simply learning how to save energy more and more effectively? Another way to say this is, is the way to improve at sport climbing just gaining better and better technique?
The reason i ask is i'm getting bored going up these jug hauls and i want to start pushing myself on climbing (that is what i love about bouldering, you always push yourself harder and harder until failure). However, as soon as i push myself alittle the only thing holding me back is pump and working on just improving my endurance is getting boring.
Any suggestions on what i should do at this point?
Thanks,
Mike
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kalcario
Mar 13, 2006, 8:53 PM
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what is your height and weight?
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caughtinside
Mar 13, 2006, 8:55 PM
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Gee, it's almost as if you're implying that bouldering doesn't develop important climbing techniques.
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jammer
Mar 13, 2006, 9:17 PM
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Sounds like you are over-gripping. You only need to hold yourself into the wall. Let your feet work for you by moving your weight over them.
Remember to breathe. It's easy to get mentally pumped and forget to take the next breath.
Move as smooth as water flowing down a gentle stream. You want your moves to be dance like, not punch-happy by slamming the next hold.
When resting, let your skeleton take the weight, not your muscles. Keep an eye out for hidden knee-bars ... nice rests there!
After warming up, hit the harder climbs first. Don't save them until you "feel" like you're ready.
Other then that, just climb more.
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musicman1586
Mar 13, 2006, 9:58 PM
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For starters what level do you boulder at? Chances might be that mid 10's is your limit right now, and you might boulder just a bit harder then that but with bouldering you don't have to have stamina so you might just be at your "climbing max" for the time being if you get what I'm saying.
Secondly, I know alot of boulderers who are power climbers, they climb all by strength and they don't really have alot of technique. If you are this sort of climber you may just be reaching the point where strength won't carry you the whole way anymore.
I don't know if either of these two scenarios are true, just putting them out there for things to think about, the bottom line to get past this though is just keep climb.
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musicman1586
Mar 13, 2006, 9:59 PM
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For starters what level do you boulder at? Chances might be that mid 10's is your limit right now, and you might boulder just a bit harder then that but with bouldering you don't have to have stamina so you might just be at your "climbing max" for the time being if you get what I'm saying.
Secondly, I know alot of boulderers who are power climbers, they climb all by strength and they don't really have alot of technique. If you are this sort of climber you may just be reaching the point where strength won't carry you the whole way anymore.
I don't know if either of these two scenarios are true, just putting them out there for things to think about, the bottom line to get past this though is just keep climb.
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cellardoor
Mar 13, 2006, 10:55 PM
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Thanks for the responses so far. So for some more information as you guys have requested. I am 6'3'' 170lbs. I boulder at v5-v6 and project v7s. I am a power climber as in i muscled my way through most problems (i didn't realize it till recently as most of my friends were the same). I have decent balance but i don't invoke it too often except on hard/delicate holds (aka i don't seem to use my balance much on big holds).
I think you guys are correct in that its still mostly mental and learning how to rest and get over my feet more effectivly and stuff. I guess my question is, is it going to be purely learning technique and building endurance until i hit like 5.12. Or in other words, will those be the things holding me back until strength problems kick in?
If that is the case, is just spending time on the routes the best way to accomplish this? Should i be pushing myself on harder routes and getting pumped in like 3-4 or should i go for mileage.
Also, any advice on how to build a better mental game? Is it mainly about building those things you guys mentioned into habit or is there more too it.
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jammer
Mar 13, 2006, 11:09 PM
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In reply to: Thanks for the responses so far. So for some more information as you guys have requested. I am 6'3'' 170lbs. I boulder at v5-v6 and project v7s. I am a power climber as in i muscled my way through most problems (i didn't realize it till recently as most of my friends were the same). I have decent balance but i don't invoke it too often except on hard/delicate holds (aka i don't seem to use my balance much on big holds).
The equivalent of v5-v7 is 5.12b to 5.13a. Quite impressive.
In reply to: I think you guys are correct in that its still mostly mental and learning how to rest and get over my feet more effectivly and stuff. I guess my question is, is it going to be purely learning technique and building endurance until i hit like 5.12. Or in other words, will those be the things holding me back until strength problems kick in?
Short ... yup. Technique will get you up more then strength alone. Endurance comes in time.
In reply to: If that is the case, is just spending time on the routes the best way to accomplish this? Should i be pushing myself on harder routes and getting pumped in like 3-4 or should i go for mileage.
Rotate your training. One day, train technique on harder climbs. The next training day, do laps on 5.easy for endurance.
In reply to: Also, any advice on how to build a better mental game? Is it mainly about building those things you guys mentioned into habit or is there more too it.
Two books come to mind. How To Climb 5.12 by Eric J. Horst (A Falcon Guide) and the other is The Rock Warrior's Way, Mental Training For Climbers by Arno Ilgner.
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bdplayer
Mar 14, 2006, 1:18 AM
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In reply to: I am a power climber as in i muscled my way through most problems. I have decent balance but i don't invoke it too often except on hard/delicate holds (aka i don't seem to use my balance much on big holds). I guess my question is, is it going to be purely learning technique and building endurance until i hit like 5.12. Or in other words, will those be the things holding me back until strength problems kick in? If that is the case, is just spending time on the routes the best way to accomplish this? Should i be pushing myself on harder routes and getting pumped in like 3-4 or should i go for mileage.
Well man, it sounds like you've got a lot of great tools in your bag that you just need to figure out how to use. Now, I don't know if you've heard this or not, but bouldering is one of the tools that sport and trad climbers use to build strength to get through cruxes and difficult moves. A lot of rope climbers can climb all day, but when they get to a small crimper or nasty sloper that requires exquisite balance, they just don't have everything they need to pull though it. My guess, based on what you are saying is that what is kicking your butt is the long, sustainment of difficulty. Would that be accurate?
Footwork is going to be your saving grace on any kind of climb, whether wrestling pebbles or clutching crags. A lot of endurance can be eaked out of being deliberate on your foot placements and learning a bits o' technique of how to make the most out of your feet.
Ok, a few more questions: Do you climb sport with people who are sport climbers, or do you climb with boulderers? This actually may make a good bit of difference in how you approach the routes. Also, do you climb with people who are right at your skill level or with people who are at the level you wish to reach yourself? i would recommend talking to people at the crag or tracking down a partner who is at the place you wish to be and spending a session or two with them. That will answer more questions than all the forums in the world.
What follows is what works for me personally, but I hope you're able to find use out of it. I warm up by stretching, hanging a bit and doing some fun (this is important!) climbs that are at least a number grade and a half (or two) below my limit. Then I'll bump it up to the easiest letter grade in what I am working on, then start tackling whatever project I have my eyes on. It usually takes me a a week or two of lots of hangdogging, toproping and grunting while pulling laps on the "easier" parts and watching other people cruising through the technical parts looking oh, so smooth. Then, I will link it all together finally, and climb it a few times more. Runningn laps on a new difficult route you just conquered helps build endurance, but also gets you used to climbing it most efficiently, and ingraining the muscle memory of smooth, controlled climbing.
Hope this helps. Moving from one discipline to another is always a bit more involved than we think it is, ain't it?
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mikej
Mar 14, 2006, 10:08 PM
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first off In reply to: Move as smooth as water flowing down a gentle stream. You want your moves to be dance like
Yikes... :shock:
Second
In reply to: Thanks for the responses so far. So for some more information as you guys have requested. I am 6'3'' 170lbs. I boulder at v5-v6 and project v7s. I am a power climber as in i muscled my way through most problems (i didn't realize it till recently as most of my friends were the same). I have decent balance but i don't invoke it too often except on hard/delicate holds (aka i don't seem to use my balance much on big holds).
If you're doing v5-v6, you do have technique whether or not you realize it. You're probably just forgetting that you do when you get on lead. Even in short problems, you need technique to get up them. Maybe not energy saving technique, but technique nevertheless.
Bdplayer is right about the feet being your saving grace, not just using them, but having them in the right position for your body. I'm 6'2 130 and i mostly boulder, but i do sport too. I just pulled off a v7, but my highest lead is a 5.11. Most of the time i forget i do have the technique and stregnth to pull off the moves, just get freaked if im too far above the bolt and start thinking too much. When you do boulder, try doing long traverses as a warm up and warm down. That taught me worlds of energy saving and foot work. And for all of your sakes, please dont look like your're dancing.
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overlord
Mar 14, 2006, 10:15 PM
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id suggest some power-endurance training. that means climbing routes that are 20-40 moves long and PAINFULLY pumpy. its not neccesary to actually complete the route, what is important is falling off screaming in pain.
and you should learn technique on easy stuff. its easier to learn proper technique when youre comfortable.
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jammer
Mar 14, 2006, 10:45 PM
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In reply to: first off In reply to: Move as smooth as water flowing down a gentle stream. You want your moves to be dance like Yikes... :shock:
If you think about it, moving smoothly on rock will save a lot of energy. The gracefulness will also assist in keeping your weight balanced correctly and may eliminate foot slippage due to jerky movements. Easier then it sounds.
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mikej
Mar 14, 2006, 11:19 PM
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In reply to: Author Message jammer Posted: 14 Mar 2006 15:45 Post subject: Re: How to improve at Sport -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- mikej wrote: first off Quote: Move as smooth as water flowing down a gentle stream. You want your moves to be dance like Yikes... If you think about it, moving smoothly on rock will save a lot of energy. The gracefulness will also assist in keeping your weight balanced correctly and may eliminate foot slippage due to jerky movements. Easier then it sounds.
Im just givin you a hard time. I know what u mean, but im pretty sure i dont look very dance like when i climb, just not my style, though im pretty conscious about saving energy. Off the subject, well done on your last trip report.
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jammer
Mar 14, 2006, 11:41 PM
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Thanks Mike ... wish my climbing had been more flowing while at Shortoff! It was more like ... "Oh Fuck!" and on a 6 at that! :oops:
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leezerdgirl
Mar 15, 2006, 2:09 AM
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I just got the Self-Coached Climber book / DVD by Dan Hague and Douglas Hunter. Really impressive training info. j_ung did a good review that is posted on this site. I have a few training books, and this is looking to be the best one. You might check into it if you're into learning that way.
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dirtineye
Mar 15, 2006, 4:02 AM
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The best way to improve your sport climbing is, first, shave your balls, or better yet, just cut them off.
As an FB, (Former Boulderer) You should be ASHAMED to move to an inferior aspect of the sport. You should have taken up trad climbing.
Then you could really stuggle.
So you muscle your way though V6? Go watch some little girl who climbs V6 like it was nothing. Do what she does. If you can.
Almost all climbing is footwork, footwork, footwork.
You don't know that yet.
Learn it.
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areyoumydude
Mar 15, 2006, 6:39 AM
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Damn dude, you need to eat a sandwich. :o
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kalcario
Mar 15, 2006, 7:48 AM
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In reply to: I am 6'3'' 170lbs. I boulder at v5-v6 and project v7s. I am a power climber as in i muscled my way through most problems (i didn't realize it till recently as most of my friends were the same). I have decent balance but i don't invoke it too often except on hard/delicate holds (aka i don't seem to use my balance much on big holds).
Overhanging climbing doesn't involve balance, so unless you want to climb slabs, don't worry about it. If you really can boulder up to v7 and still get pumped on 5.10's, you basically need to throw everything you think you know about climbing out the window and start over.
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jdouble
Mar 15, 2006, 10:09 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I am 6'3'' 170lbs. I boulder at v5-v6 and project v7s. I am a power climber as in i muscled my way through most problems (i didn't realize it till recently as most of my friends were the same). I have decent balance but i don't invoke it too often except on hard/delicate holds (aka i don't seem to use my balance much on big holds). Overhanging climbing doesn't involve balance, so unless you want to climb slabs, don't worry about it. If you really can boulder up to v7 and still get pumped on 5.10's, you basically need to throw everything you think you know about climbing out the window and start over.
Joe, you crack me up.
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overlord
Mar 15, 2006, 12:03 PM
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offcoutrse it requires balance. if it wouldnt, it would be impossible to barn-door :wink:
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mikej
Mar 15, 2006, 2:55 PM
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In reply to: areyoumydude Posted: 14 Mar 2006 23:39 Post subject: Re: How to improve at Sport -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- mikej wrote: I'm 6'2 130 Damn dude, you need to eat a sandwich.
I can probably out eat most small countries. I have the metabolism of a spider monkey and prolly less than 5% body fat. I have tried gaining weight...IT DOESN'T WORK. Now I'm happy with my weight and i don't really care to gain any. It'd just slow me down. You want me to eat more sandwiches? GO MAKE ME A SAMMICH! :lol: :lol:
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naitch
Mar 15, 2006, 3:43 PM
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In reply to: I'm 6'2 130 and i mostly boulder, but i do sport too. I just pulled off a v7, but my highest lead is a 5.11.
Damn, there goes that excuse! I'm 5-11 and weigh 130 and can't come close to bouldering V7 and am just starting to climb 5.10s (off course I'm 54 but that's no excuse either.) and yes endurance is a problem for me too.
Hmm...guess I just need to climb more...now if the job just didn't get in the way...
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jt512
Mar 15, 2006, 3:50 PM
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In reply to: Any suggestions on what i should do at this point?
I think you'll find the new training book, The Self-Coached Climber, by Hague and Hunter, helpful.
Jay
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fracture
Mar 15, 2006, 4:01 PM
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In reply to: Overhanging climbing doesn't involve balance,
Wrong. Balance is a fundamental part of climbing of any type, overhanging or not. The quality of balance in a given move has a direct affect on the amount of force that must be applied the hand and foot holds, etc.
Read fluxus' book.
In reply to: If you really can boulder up to v7 and still get pumped on 5.10's, you basically need to throw everything you think you know about climbing out the window and start over.
This part is right on, though. :lol:
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