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slacklinejoe
Aug 15, 2006, 7:45 PM
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In reply to: Do you use your gri gri as a break & BELAYING.? i did look at some 3" CMI and other double pulleys, but there all at least in the upper double digits..
I've heard of several people that have broken gri-gris using them as a slackline break - the trick is the have it the last item in the system and to use a high enough Mechanical Advantage (MA) (more turns) so it distributes the load across each pulley at each turn making it share the load much more.
Of course, every one I've heard of breaking only broke because they broke the release lever trying to release the tension off of the line, not because it broke metal or anything. When I used it in 4:1's it was difficult to unload but on higher MA systems it wasn't nearly as bad. Your mileage may vary of course.
Smaller sheave pulleys are much cheaper but there are obvious trade offs in efficency. Here's an interesting write up on picking efficent pulleys.. Bigger sheaves are better, but it does get (relatively) expensive quickly, but big lines do require an investment of both your time to master as well as some resources to back it up.
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gymslackerclimber
Aug 16, 2006, 3:21 PM
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Nice review joe,
here is a two different m/a's. one, with 2 double sbi pulleys and single petzl, then three double pulleys and a single. a rope man created a multiplier on both.
this rig is the bomb and i always use it!!!!
http://i5.photobucket.com/...gymslacker/151ma.jpg
this was love pulling things tight, only it takes alot more rope, something i dont have, and unless your going 150+, or a weakling, you probably dont need it..
http://i5.photobucket.com/...slacker/IMG_2631.jpg
i know for myself, those 4 inch sheaves work really well and are very fancy but may be a bit over kill/too expensive for 90+% of lines rigged.
For the first two years i didnt use pulleys. i thought i had a concept of a good line. not until SBI hooked me up did i realize how much i was holding myslef back..
OH, (since i have to sit in this chair for two hours icing my shoulder i figured i keep typing for all your convenience) :wink: :lol: :lol:
but these stupid internet fourms shouldnt be taken seriously.. i halfheartedly blaable all the time about irrelevant topics.
I dont think you can conclude anyones "true colors" from this stuff.. fokes have bad day's, good days, drunk days and sober days..
I think its only vaild, to have a few conversations with someone before making decisions about that persons character or motives.
anyhoo, good luck with your tightening system!
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dailyslacker
Aug 16, 2006, 7:18 PM
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thanks, the 5 pulleys does look like a nice set up.
Joe's review is nice, I'll take the time to read it more later, but is the break the ascender, and if so how do you release it? And with a gri gri, maybe you can use the gri gri to break but not to take the tension off with the lever, just make a releasable hitch, like a munter mule, at the other end so you dont have to pull the lever?
In reply to: but these stupid internet fourms shouldnt be taken seriously.. i halfheartedly blaable all the time about irrelevant topics. I dont think you can conclude anyones "true colors" from this stuff.. fokes have bad day's, good days, drunk days and sober days.. I think its only vaild, to have a few conversations with someone before making decisions about that persons character or motives. anyhoo, good luck with your tightening system!
again thanks, I do realize some of this stuff shouldn't be taken seriously. and folks don't always mean what they say .. if you notice i did edit that post cause maybe im all alone with thinking Uncleslackline uses unnecessary "immaturity". anyways. I dont really want to talk about it anymore because "it is what it is"
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slacklinejoe
Aug 16, 2006, 7:59 PM
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In reply to: Joe's review is nice, I'll take the time to read it more later,
In reply to: but is the break the ascender, and if so how do you release it?
Nope, if you look carefully the ropeman is used to make a multiplier. You can use prussiks to do this, but it's slower and more cumbersome.
One end of the rope is a clove hitch to a biner on the main line the other is just hanging by the pole after it was threaded through the biner on the rope man. I can't tell exactly what he's using to break the system but it could easily be just a mule knot or a friction wrap to tie off the system. With that much MA you aren't holding nearly as much tension in your hands while trying to tie off because the load is shared on each of the pulley turns (ratio distributed depends on pulley efficency and how the MA of that turn is set up) prior to the end of the rope.
(gymslacker - please correct me if I'm wrong - it looks a bit dark on this monitor)
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veganboyjosh
Aug 16, 2006, 8:04 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: but is the break the ascender, and if so how do you release it? Nope, if you look carefully the ropeman is used to make a multiplier. You can use prussiks to do this, but it's slower and more cumbersome.
for what it's worth, i use kleimheist knots, in place of prussiks. they're much easier to tie one handed, (which i used to have to do before i discovered the self locking ellington setup) and they grip just as good as prussiks. and they're hella easer to unlock once they're loaded.
in fact, i dunno many reasons to use a prussik when a kleimheist would do...
i'll give you that my kleimheist/biner setup ain't the most elegant, but i would not call it cumbersome in the least...
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slacklinejoe
Aug 16, 2006, 8:10 PM
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Josh,
I was using prussik as it's generic term. Certainly nothing wrong with it, but an ascender is awefully nice. I've been looking for a reason to use the ascending knots that was mentioned in another recent thread, Franz Bachman emailed me some stuff on it and it looked like a nifty variant of the klemheist. You might find it useful in your setup.
One note about using friction knots is that they will reduce the "throw" in the system when compared to an ascender since they can put the rope turn much closer to the initial point of grab. Not likely a big issue as you can always just do an extra "reset" or two but if we're being nit picky at efficency its worth recognizing.
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veganboyjosh
Aug 16, 2006, 8:20 PM
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In reply to: Josh, I was using prussik as it's generic term. Certainly nothing wrong with it, but an ascender is awefully nice. I've been looking for a reason to use the ascending knots that was mentioned in another recent thread, Franz Bachman emailed me some stuff on it and it looked like a nifty variant of the klemheist. One note about using friction knots is that they will reduce the "throw" in the system when compared to an ascender since they can put the rope turn much closer to the initial point of grab. Not likely a big issue as you can always just do an extra "reset" or two
tru all dat.
In reply to: but if we're being nit picky at efficency its worth recognizing.
ok, how about this for effeciency:
with what a grigri/ascender costs, i can buy enough cord for a hundred prussiks.
i (have always and still do) think people should use what works for them. if you're getting the effeciency out of your slackline setup that you're after, and you're able to tighten your lines to as tight as you want, then use what you have...
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slacklinejoe
Aug 16, 2006, 8:27 PM
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In reply to: with what a grigri/ascender costs, i can buy enough cord for a hundred prussiks. i (have always and still do) think people should use what works for them. if you're getting the effeciency out of your slackline setup that you're after, and you're able to tighten your lines to as tight as you want, then use what you have...
Agreed. Although with the advent of the Tibloc and competition from the RopeMan and other variants from other companies it's now possible to pick an ascender off ebay for like $15 shipped.
Another trick: I sometimes use thin (5/8") webbing through pulleys then use a cam buckle like I use in slacklines instead of ascenders or prussiks. The cam buckles are only a few bucks and it works like a gem. Since I'm softpointing everything out anyway it doesn't effect system strength. That and it packs up really nice an tight. The only downsides to using thinner web in the tensioning system is that it stretches more than static rope and you usually need a pull handle of some sort.
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uncleslackline
Aug 18, 2006, 12:09 AM
Post #59 of 74
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The Brake is in the SBI rig!!!
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veganboyjosh
Aug 18, 2006, 12:37 AM
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In reply to: The Brake is in the SBI rig!!!
ok, i'll play.
will the sbi brake that's in the rig also help you to jug a rope?
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gymslackerclimber
Aug 18, 2006, 1:36 AM
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In reply to: will the sbi brake that's in the rig also help you to jug a rope?
Yes!
but it may be a bit awkward with those two pulleys on there :wink:
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lidosis
Aug 18, 2006, 3:30 AM
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ok I guess we are all way off the OP but I will throw some personal experience into the current conversation.
I used ascenders on the line for my multipliers but will now only use a klemheist, or some form of a prusik. I have two ropemans, they worked great for a while but recently I have been rigging longer lines and have destroyed two ropes. I keep ripping the sheaths off my ropes. I have stopped pulling early enough in the process to see that the sheath is tearing right where the teeth of the ropeman bite onto the rope. So now I am using the klemhiest. So for me given the advantages and disadvantages I would rather lose a little MA and save my rope, it sure is a pain to de tension a line with a busted up rope, everything get jammed in the pulleys and what not.
Ben
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gymslackerclimber
Aug 18, 2006, 3:51 AM
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In reply to: I keep ripping the sheaths off my ropes. I have stopped pulling early enough in the process to see that the sheath is tearing right where the teeth of the ropeman bite onto the rope.
WoaH!
i guess i dont pull my lines tight enough!! do you have super old rope dude?
i use a ropeman everytime, on all types of lengths, 200+. also a few higher tension lines with a tiblock, (which i think has bigger teeth) and have never experienced any sheath rippage.
thats scary to hear rope ripping like that.. it makes me want to put on my protective hard hat :tinfoilhat:
:lol: :lol:
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boulder_junky
Aug 18, 2006, 5:31 AM
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In reply to: The Brake is in the SBI rig!!! |
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lidosis
Aug 18, 2006, 7:31 AM
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Yeah I work in a climbing gym so I have been using old gym top ropes, but still, I would rather not be destroying ropes.
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coldclimb
Aug 18, 2006, 8:05 PM
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There may also be a difference in static and dynamic rope. Does anybody know much about this? What I do know is that the old gym ropes I've seen seem to have completely independent sheaths and cores moving seperate from each other, and only held together because one is inside the other. :lol: Will a static rope even do that?
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veganboyjosh
Aug 18, 2006, 9:15 PM
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In reply to: There may also be a difference in static and dynamic rope. Does anybody know much about this? What I do know is that the old gym ropes I've seen seem to have completely independent sheaths and cores moving seperate from each other, and only held together because one is inside the other. :lol: Will a static rope even do that?
good point, cc. i've never seen a static rope cut open...anyone?
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lidosis
Aug 18, 2006, 11:07 PM
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I am using an old ropeman not the mark II. And I have been using static ropes from the gym top-ropes are static because well they are top ropes so they don't need to be anything else, the lead ropes are dynamic. so the inside is a bit different yet as dynamic ropes are composed of smaller braids of nylon rope inside the sheath the inside for the static ropes tend to look different just like straight nylon not braided, I can't really explain the inside of the static so well, but I have tore the sheaths of both kinds of rope when I tore the sheath of the dynamic the individual strands were clearly visable on the static just sort of one strand not really braided or twisted as it were.
I would assume ropes is better shape would hold up better to the ropeman old or new but I am not about to start buying new ropes to use in my tensioning system. I have switched to using cordlette and I thing that solves all my problems. The only problems I have had with the klemheist is when I was putting direclty on the slackline and tensioning using that method, we melted and then broke that line, I think it being wet sort of had an affect on that whole fiasco, and I have found better ways of doing that online now so...
Thats the deal
Ben
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healyje
Aug 21, 2006, 4:57 AM
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I've been walking climbing rope, wires, and chains since '76 and have walked just about everything ropewise from my regular climbing rope to 1" dacron tree buck lines to 2" polypro lines in that time. 11mm is my normal walking line and I've found no real performance / feel difference between static and dynamic climbing rope. The main difference between the two is I'll have to get off and retighten a dynamic rope 2-4 times over the first 30 minutes before it is stretched out and only have to retighten it once with a static line. This is with a line setup at a distance in the neighborhood of 30'-40'. Longer lines over about 40' need fatter ropes to maintain the same feel (say a 12mm out to about 60', and dacron weaves after that).
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areyoumydude
Aug 21, 2006, 5:08 PM
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In reply to: I've been walking climbing rope, wires, and chains since '76 and have walked just about everything ropewise from my regular climbing rope to 1" dacron tree buck lines to 2" polypro lines in that time. 11mm is my normal walking line and I've found no real performance / feel difference between static and dynamic climbing rope. The main difference between the two is I'll have to get off and retighten a dynamic rope 2-4 times over the first 30 minutes before it is stretched out and only have to retighten it once with a static line. This is with a line setup at a distance in the neighborhood of 30'-40'. Longer lines over about 40' need fatter ropes to maintain the same feel ( say a 12mm out to about 60', and dacron weaves after that).
They are talking about the tensioning system. No one walks ropes anymore. Slackline is where it's at.
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healyje
Aug 21, 2006, 8:12 PM
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In reply to: They are talking about the tensioning system. No one walks ropes anymore. Slackline is where it's at.
What makes you think hardly anyone ever did? Walking well-cranked down 11mm is considerably harder than walking slacklines. I have always much preferred rope and wire to webbing. Add a little variety sometime and put one up over head height, really crank it down hard, and give it a whirl...
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areyoumydude
Aug 22, 2006, 12:47 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: They are talking about the tensioning system. No one walks ropes anymore. Slackline is where it's at. What makes you think hardly anyone ever did? Walking well-cranked down 11mm is considerably harder than walking slacklines. I have always much preferred rope and wire to webbing. Add a little variety sometime and put one up over head height, really crank it down hard, and give it a whirl...
I just meant to point out that no one was talking about rope walking. As for walking rope above my head I have done that and although a little scary it is not nearly as fun or hard as slacklining. Why do you think no one walks rope, because it's harder? Sorry dude but you're out of the loop. Maybe Bridwell will come on and tell us how only real men walk chains. :lol:
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