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coolklimber
Aug 27, 2006, 10:10 PM
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At what point are you no longer a beginner at climbing? I know that I will never know everything there is about climbing, and I am always learning new
things. But when are you considered no longer a beginner at climbing? The level you climb? What you climb, trad, sport, aid, etc...? The amount of gear you have?, even thought no amount of gear makes you an experienced or expert climber. Is it the experience and knowledge? Anyone have any ideas?
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jaybro
Aug 27, 2006, 10:18 PM
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I'm a beginner everytime I go out the door.
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reno
Aug 27, 2006, 10:19 PM
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If you have to ask, you're still a beginner.
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coolklimber
Aug 27, 2006, 10:26 PM
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Right, well, thanks for the positive help. I can see this being a shit thread now.
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bri1682
Aug 27, 2006, 10:34 PM
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Its a really good question, which I am sure a lot of climbers have wondered at one point or another. Unfortunately people can be asses.
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reno
Aug 27, 2006, 11:00 PM
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In reply to: Its a really good question, which I am sure a lot of climbers have wondered at one point or another. Unfortunately people can be asses.
The answer has already been given. You just didn't like it, that's all.
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lena_chita
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Aug 27, 2006, 11:05 PM
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What sort of answer were you hoping for? Honestly!
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ewtotel
Aug 27, 2006, 11:15 PM
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I would go with experience and knowledge, heavy on the "experience" side... although perhaps a bit flippant, some of the answers were really pretty good when you get right down to it... A couple years ago while rigging a TR anchor, I found myself going, "Wait, is this right?" and went and found a much younger climber setting up a couple sites down to check my work... I figured, "If I'm questioning myself... I'm no expert." I also like the guy who said, "Every time I walk out the door I'm a beginner..." Good way to look at things.
(That said, I am the same guy who is all laid up after hitting the deck because I forgot to lock a biner after almost 20 years of climbing.)
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markjarvie
Aug 27, 2006, 11:23 PM
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In reply to: At what point are you no longer a beginner at climbing? I know that I will never know everything there is about climbing, and I am always learning new things. But when are you considered no longer a beginner at climbing? The level you climb? What you climb, trad, sport, aid, etc...? The amount of gear you have?, even thought no amount of gear makes you an experienced or expert climber. Is it the experience and knowledge? Anyone have any ideas?
yeah good question, i reckon firstly you have to be climbing trad....
amount of gear - i donno im thinking if you have a resnobally sized rack your doing alright (the guys that have like 50+ cams need to seek help neways),
and obviasly you have to have knowladge in if your gear placments are trust worthy, and you know how to set up safe anchor.
Experience, yeah one must be experienced as no class room will ever tell you the whole story :)
and finnally you gotta be climbing 5.14 atleast :lol:
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coolklimber
Aug 27, 2006, 11:23 PM
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Ok, thanks, I was thinking that experience probably counts for most of it.
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stymingersfink
Aug 27, 2006, 11:57 PM
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In reply to: Ok, thanks, I was thinking that experience probably counts for most of it.
OTOH,
When you have climbed in all disciplines and survived it, you're probably a journeyman CLIMBER. When you have been doing it as long as the likes of dingus has, you may be a master.
Otherwise, you're just an "insert label here" climber.
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ctardi
Aug 28, 2006, 12:11 AM
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I'll second the 'when you don't have to ask'. Climbing is like an apprenticeship. I've only been at it for a few years now, I learn alot every time I go out. I regularly climb with a guy that's been climbing for almost 30 years, he still learns something every time he goes out.
I can tell by a couple of your posts that you are still new to the sport, maybe a beginner. Don't worry about it, just go climbing for yourself, not so you can say you arn't a beginner.
Gear has absolutly nothing to do with it. Anyone can get a rack of cams, or set of draws, or even a crashpad. Does that mean that they are no longer a beginner?
Likewise, someone with no experience can go out and get the knowledge. Or, someone with no knowledge can get expereince.
Just climb for yourself, and don't worry about it. I used to think like that, but looking back now, I can see that it was pointless.
After reading your profile, seeing as that you are 15, and have only climbed for a year, you are a beginner. That said, I'm only a year older, and have a couple more years experience, I'm still a beginner.
Though you do have the right name ;) Where abouts are you in BC?
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coolklimber
Aug 28, 2006, 12:39 AM
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I have almost been climbing for a year, I climb 5.12 inside, 5.10 outside, I sport lead, I can set anchors, rappel, and I am starting to place pro.
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ctardi
Aug 28, 2006, 12:48 AM
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Please re-read what I said. :)
Hang around with some of the older guys in squamish that have been there a while. You will find that most of them don't care about grades, they are just there to climb for themselves.
You really sound like you are trying to prove something. There is nothing to prove. The best climber is the one having the most fun.
Where are you from, Cam?
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renobdarb
Aug 28, 2006, 12:53 AM
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In reply to: yeah good question, i reckon firstly you have to be climbing trad.... amount of gear - i donno im thinking if you have a resnobally sized rack your doing alright (the guys that have like 50+ cams need to seek help neways), and obviasly you have to have knowladge in if your gear placments are trust worthy, and you know how to set up safe anchor. Experience, yeah one must be experienced as no class room will ever tell you the whole story :) and finnally you gotta be climbing 5.14 atleast :lol:
... but you don't really need good grammar or even know how to spell.
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coolklimber
Aug 28, 2006, 1:08 AM
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In my first post I acknowledged that no amount of gear makes you a pro.
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thespider
Aug 28, 2006, 1:21 AM
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Would you be considered a beginner after passing a AMGA rock course and certification test?
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coolklimber
Aug 28, 2006, 1:40 AM
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depends if you go out and do the things you learned in the course, or whether you just go around and say that.
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gunksgoer
Aug 28, 2006, 1:48 AM
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At some point in your climbing career you will reach a point where you feel confident high above your last piece. It is a strange level of comfort, and once you achieve it you know that you can climb well.
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fmd
Aug 28, 2006, 11:00 AM
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In reply to: At some point in your climbing career you will reach a point where you feel confident high above your last piece. It is a strange level of comfort, and once you achieve it you know that you can climb well.
I disagree......so you are saying once you feel confident you are no longer a beginner??...
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Aug 28, 2006, 11:04 AM
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[quote:61daf4161c="coolklimber"]depends if you go out and do the things you learned in the course, or [b:61daf4161c]whether you just go around and say that[/b:61daf4161c].[/quote:61daf4161c]
If you pass the certification, well then, you demonstrated that you know
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robbovius
Aug 28, 2006, 11:11 AM
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In reply to: At what point are you no longer a beginner at climbing?
it is somewhat an arbitrary distinction, and not worth alot of mental excersize, unless you're hung up on labels and placing arbitrary demarcations in linear progressions of knowledge ... in a very real sense, it's at the beginning of the second climb you ever attempt.
In reply to: I know that I will never know everything there is about climbing, and I am always learning new things.
there is beginning, and then a very long apprenticeship.
In reply to: But when are you considered no longer a beginner at climbing?
In reply to: Is it the experience and knowledge?
it's really telling that you had th answer in your own hand all this time. the beginner rarely can percieve the obvious, in any new endeavour.
In reply to: Anyone have any ideas?
sure, here's one: kill the rich and eat their livers.
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overlord
Aug 28, 2006, 11:25 AM
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In reply to: At what point are you no longer a beginner at climbing?
you definitely have a long way to go with accomplisments like these:
In reply to: I have almost been climbing for a year, I climb 5.12 inside, 5.10 outside, I sport lead, I can set anchors, rappel, and I am starting to place pro.
a) difficulty of routes climbed doesnt really tell anything about your experience. ESPECIALLY gym 'grades'.
b) time counts a little, but one year is nothing.
c) the only thing that counts is experience and knowledge. after about 10 years, ebing able to set anchors and rappel in the dark and snow and with gloves (and other stuff like that), some big walls and alpine expeditions, and epic or two, you migh consider yourself on a good way to becoming an 'experienced climber'.
d) be humble. never assume you can do something. cockiness can get you killed. while you might be able to easily bail off a sport route, some other enviroments/things you need to master before you become 'experienced' are not so forgiving.
e) stop worrying about it (especially the grades) and enjoy climbing.
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Aug 28, 2006, 11:26 AM
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[quote:a56073fb56="robbovius"][quote:a56073fb56="coolklimber"]At what point are you no longer a beginner at climbing?
[/quote:a56073fb56]
it is somewhat an arbitrary distinction, and not worth alot of mental excersize, unless you're hung up on labels and placing arbitrary demarcations in linear progressions of knowledge ... in a very real sense, it's at the beginning of the second climb you ever attempt.
[quote:a56073fb56]
I know that I will never know everything there is about climbing, and I am always learning new
things.
[/quote:a56073fb56]
this is the paradox: as your experience grows, and with it your knowledge, the knowledge also grows that you will never know it all.
there is beginning, and then a very long apprenticeship.
[quote:a56073fb56]
But when are you considered no longer a beginner at climbing?
[/quote:a56073fb56]
when you stop asking people the above question, really.
[quote:a56073fb56]
Is it the experience and knowledge?
[/quote:a56073fb56]
it's really telling that you had th answer in your own hand all this time. the beginner rarely can percieve the obvious, in any new endeavour.
[b:a56073fb56][quote:a56073fb56]
Anyone have any ideas?[/quote:a56073fb56]
sure, here's one: kill the rich and eat their livers.[/quote:a56073fb56][/b:a56073fb56]
Will that make you an advance or expert climber or does it depend on how rich they are???
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rockguide
Aug 28, 2006, 12:21 PM
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This has been covered often, most recently at http://www.rockclimbing.com/topic/107468
Treat yourself as a beginner everytime you go to a new rock type or new climbing style. Give yourself time to ease into things.
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