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kansasclimber
Jan 19, 2007, 6:19 AM
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THIS IS A SERIOUS POST, no trolling....
I have a couple friends, that suffer from lack of motivation, frustrations, and humilation, because they are not as good as the people they climb with. I know it is always been said to climb for yourself, and no one else, but it has GOT to be hard when you just get stomped everytime you go out to climb or boulder. One of my freinds is 30 some years old, and has been climbing for 15 years. Is there anything i can do?? Because once i get off of a hard send on some problem or route, the first thing i think of is "crap, that wasnt good for their ego"...... HELP!!! They love climbing, but its hard on their soul..
Stephen
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fancyclaps
Jan 19, 2007, 6:53 AM
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See the thing is, you never get "stomped" whenever you go out and climb with other people. That implies that they are some how beating you. Unless you are in a formal climbing competition, the only person who can "stomp" you whenever you climb is yourself.
I have some friends who are the same way, and you know what? I cant do anything about it. I can encourage them, I can give them tough love, I can shout my lungs out, but until they make the decision to climb for themselves no one can do anything for them. Emotions are not external forces acting upon us, they are internal and we have control over them. If your friends feel like sh*t whenever they climb, they are choosing to feel that way. I know it sounds hackneyed, but they really need to change their attitude.
Your climbing partners should never be jealous or mad at you for getting a hard send, they should be cheering you on and be just as excited whenever you get that send. If the people you climb with are that petty, or they make you feel that sh*tty, maybe you should look into finding new partners.
I know that might not help, but sometimes you cant really fix a situation, you just have to leave. So I went and found more positive people to climb with.
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acollins
Jan 19, 2007, 7:02 AM
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I could see how it would suck to not be as good. My climbing partner and I climb about the same but sometimes she climbs much better than I do. It does not hurt my ego that much. I like to be the best at everything I do but when i'm climbing I don't really think about the fact that i'm not doing as good as someone else.
If I were you I would take my friend out to something a little harder than what he/she climbs and coach them on it. Help them out and make them work on becoming better. I love to try a new route even if its beyond my climbing skills. I've spent hours trying to climb spots and never make it more than 15ft off the ground. Just make sure your friend is having fun. Thats the most important thing.
I think anyway! but don't take my word for it.
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kriso9tails
Jan 19, 2007, 7:28 AM
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bah... insomnia
When I stopped climbing for the better part of five years, everyone i climbed with from before had obviously gotten strong than they were when i left. Of course I was glad that they were climbing strong, but it was a bit of a kick to my ego.
I'm not a very egocentric person, but still, I felt this drive to get really strong, not so much because i wanted to climb hard but rather because I didn't want to be weak. It didn't go so well since drive without a vehicle doesn't get you that far. I stopped being so much of a spaz about trying to climb harder and put in the effort actually needed.
I'm pretty much at the same level as one of the people I boulder with most frequently at the gym, but he's definitely a bit stronger overall. It can be a bit daunting when the people I climb with almost always finish projects before me, but on the bright side, it's better training for me, and I've been getting way stronger by sucking it up and pushing harder than I would by getting hung up on it.
(This post was edited by kriso9tails on Jan 19, 2007, 7:30 AM)
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drfelatio
Jan 19, 2007, 7:59 AM
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Maybe you have the kind of friends that only feel good about themselves when they're surrounded by weaker people. Maybe your friends were the class bullies and now that someone shows them up, they can't take it. Or maybe your friends just have fragile egos and low self-esteem. Either way, you've done nothing wrong, so I say f**k 'em. Why should you feel guilty simply because you can do something better than they can? I'm sure there are some things that they are more adept at than you. Do they feel guilty when you can't do that something?
Sounds to me like the best thing to do for everyone involved is to get them to climb with someone else closer to their skill range. One, they'll be more satisfied with their own performance and two, they won't be holding you back anymore. Because that's exactly what they're doing. By making you feel guilty, they're hindering your progress and that's bulls**t.
So long as you're not a braggart, you should be proud of your abilities, not ashamed or guilty. And if your friends were truly good friends, they'd be excited and proud of your accomplishments as well.
(Sorry if I was a bit harsh  ...)
[edit] LOL. I just read fancyclaps' post. Is there an echo in here?? [/edit]
(This post was edited by drfelatio on Jan 19, 2007, 8:01 AM)
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anykineclimb
Jan 19, 2007, 8:29 AM
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"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."
Eleanor Roosevelt
Its that simple kids
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abock33
Jan 19, 2007, 8:45 AM
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I've been in both possitions. One of my partners climbs a full two grades Higher than me. On the other hand, my other is about 3 grades lower than me. For her it's a mental block. I used to get frustrated with myself 'cause I couldn't climb like the one. I finally got it through my thick skull that I'm climbing against myself not him.
As Funny as it sounds.. Spend a trip to the crag climbing at Their Level. I do that with my g/f (the female partner) and when she gets tired I work on my climbs. It's like a long warm up for you and also it helped me with endurance.
Hope that was helpfull.
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overlord
Jan 19, 2007, 12:08 PM
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anykineclimb wrote: "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt Its that simple kids
ditto that. i always view better climbers as a source of insipiration. you can always learn something new and not thinking youre really good definitely helps in the process.
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sevrdhed
Jan 19, 2007, 1:42 PM
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overlord wrote: anykineclimb wrote: "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt Its that simple kids ditto that. i always view better climbers as a source of insipiration. you can always learn something new and not thinking youre really good definitely helps in the process.
I agree. Even when climbing with people that can hike any project I have, I find it's nice to have them give me beta and hopefully make me a better climber.
As for your problem, it seems to me that if someone's getting upset, they're likely just very competitive. Some people are extremely competitive, and like to be winning whenever they're doing any activity, whether it's biking, or cooking, or playing video games, or whatever it may be.
These kind of people are the kind of people that get really frustrated when they're climbing with people stronger than them, because even though it's not a competition, they're still not "winning". It's just hard wired into them. There's nothing wrong with that... it just sucks for them as climbers, because they're going to enjoy it less if they don't have the ability to realize that it's simply not a big deal.
The only thing you can do is decide for yourself how you're going to let it affect you. If you can shrug it off, then do so. If it's really affecting your own enjoyment of climbing, then consider only climbing with them when you're doing easier stuff. Or, if they're always negative, maybe you just need to stop climbing together.
Good luck!
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shanz
Jan 19, 2007, 2:02 PM
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I agree with the above post - guys who got me into this sport quit climbing because i was nailing routes they had been working for years and not finished. The reality was that they were too busy competing to see clearly enough to just enjoy climbing, and focus on the climb itself rather than who was watching. I prefer to climb with people who climb harder than i - it encourages me to focus more and climb harder
(This post was edited by shanz on Jan 19, 2007, 2:03 PM)
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br
Jan 19, 2007, 2:10 PM
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I was in the exact situation a couple of years ago. My friend eventually stopped climbing. Let's just face the facts two climbers of completely different abilities cannot exist as roped climbing partners.
Climbing time is just to precious for me. Having a wife and two kids does not allow me to baby sit or stroke someones ego. Get with the program or look somewhere else for a climbing partner. Harsh but true.
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jimo
Jan 19, 2007, 2:45 PM
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On the same line, I have been climbing since 1990 and up until the past couple of years have been able to actually focus on climbing hard. There are people who climb then there are climbers. It is totally the individual's choice to feel anything other than psyched about climbing, you can encourage your partners, give them training tips etc but until they make up their mind to be a climber, mediocrity will remain. BTW, make sure you leave your ego at the parking lot.
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lena_chita
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Jan 19, 2007, 3:17 PM
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kansasclimber wrote: One of my freinds is 30 some years old, and has been climbing for 15 years. Is there anything i can do?? Because once i get off of a hard send on some problem or route, the first thing i think of is "crap, that wasnt good for their ego"...... HELP!!! They love climbing, but its hard on their soul..
Umm, so this 30-some year old friend is crying and you are so concerned about him... What a nice guy you are, the first thing you think of when you come down from a hard send is how bad it made your friend feel... Wow! Or are you maybe projecting your own feelings of being frustrated watching a good climber onto someone else?
I'm trying really hard to take it as a serious post...
You can maybe try not boasting about your hard sends in the presense of these friends... Offer constructive advice if they are stuck on some problem... Other than that, I don't see how you can do anything.
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dingus
Jan 19, 2007, 3:30 PM
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You need some sickopants there kansasclimber
Cheers!
DMT
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vertical_planar
Jan 19, 2007, 3:55 PM
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I faced a similar situation in the past. The truth is that you can do absolutely nothing about it.
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wzrdgandalf
Jan 19, 2007, 3:58 PM
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One thing you can do is just be careful how you talk. I know that a lot of times when I am climbing with people that are at a lower level I tend to talk about things in a way that would make them feel inadequate. Ill say to someone else "yeah go through that gaston to the really big jugs and then its cake from there" If that is there project and they cant get that move then it will make them feel like shit if you call it easy or juggy or anything else like that. When i started climbing it was with two guys who were extremely stong compared to me, they were warming up on my projects with tennis shoes and campusing all the moves.... that didnt help my self esteem at all. I swore off climbing with people at a much higher level, but then i climbed with a group of people that were extremely motivating because they treated my projects as if they were hard as well. I know that they arent hard moves for them but it helps with motivation. Now that I am one of the stronger climbers at our gym (well maybe just one of the mediocre ones that talks a lot with the noobs) i tend to give their lines respect with how i talk about them. example:
ME: "hey man what are you working on?"
Unmotivated Noob: "Im trying this route and its kicking my ass even though its easy"
ME: "nah man its tricky on some of the moves if you have never done that type of movement"
UN: "I just cant get the move, Im so weak"
ME: "dont worry about it, you want me to try it and give you some beta?"
alright maybe you dont have to do it that way, but some kind encouraging words that give respect to their struggles with something can make a huge difference in someones thought process. I think its sometimes easy for harder climbers to forget that a 5.8 for some people can be as hard for them as a 5.13 is for you. Of course dont coddle people and pad their ego or tell them that they are just doing sandbagged routes. You can motivate people through respect for their abilities though.
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dynosore
Jan 19, 2007, 4:15 PM
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I for one like climbing with people who are better than me. I'll learn far more about movement, etc. from them than I would a fellow 5.10 flailer like myself...if I want to "beat" everyone I'll play chess. We all have different gifts, I'm not a naturally gifted climber but I still have a great time.
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wonderwoman
Jan 19, 2007, 5:53 PM
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It sounds to me as if the problem might be that they are comparing themselves to other people. Are they climbing for themselves or are they climbing to meet someone else's expectations? If the person is climbing with someone who is cranking 5.13, then it is unrealistic and sadistic for the climber to put himself on the same climb and have the same expectations. Know what I mean?
I've been in this state of mind before, and it's not a good place to be. But as soon as I started not comparing myself to my partners, I also started to enjoy myself a whole lot more. I set my own goals, have my own projects, and find my own zone.
This subject kind of falls into one of the 'mental' aspects of climbing. It seems to be about attitude and self-perception. I would recommend checking out Arno Ilgner's book The Rock Warrior's Way. There is also a 'mental training' forum on this website that has been really useful for me.
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kansasclimber
Jan 19, 2007, 6:14 PM
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thanks for all the beta!
As far as my 2 friends i am talking about, they truly are good climbers... They climb low to mid 11's. Now i am at about the high 12/low 13 level right now, so its hard for them, becasue if they were climbing with all of the pop. of climbers they would be better than half of them im sure.
Also they do not get mad at me, whatsoever... they are very very nice about. They tell me good job after a hard send and stuff, but i can just tell that for them.. it just really sucks...
Stephen
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lemon_boy
Jan 19, 2007, 6:50 PM
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that is pretty nice that you are taking a group of quadrapalegics climbing. i bet they are pretty impressed when you are desperately clawing up the classic kansas benchmark Vb-.
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chadnsc
Jan 19, 2007, 7:05 PM
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kansasclimber wrote: thanks for all the beta! Also they do not get mad at me, whatsoever... they are very very nice about. They tell me good job after a hard send and stuff, but i can't just tell that for them.. it just really sucks... Stephen
I assume that's what you ment to type.
Uh, why can't you complement your friends after they've done a climb that's hard for them?
Sniff, sniff, is that the smell of elitism? No wait, that’s the distinct odor of narcissism.
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dynosore
Jan 19, 2007, 7:33 PM
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In reply to: As far as my 2 friends i am talking about, they truly are good climbers... They climb low to mid 11's. Now i am at about the high 12/low 13 level right now, so its hard for them, becasue if they were climbing with all of the pop. of climbers they would be better than half of them im sure.
Ah now I see the point of this thread, you were looking to spray. We're so impressed. Feel better?
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sizzlechest
Jan 19, 2007, 7:39 PM
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Something i always find on this website is if a person says the did their first 5.7-5.10 everyone is like "congratulations, offering encouragement etc." Anytime someone climbs harder and even mentions a grade they are known as a spraylord, i think this is BS. Sorry to hijack the thread but jeez people, lighten up!!
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shanz
Jan 19, 2007, 8:12 PM
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feeding the fish again Kansasclimber???
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