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fearlessclimber
Apr 23, 2007, 6:01 AM
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Anyone ever had these, just bought a set, i like the weight of them and they seem like they swing great. Ill be doing mixed WI and AI with them, anyone had them, did you like them?
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tradmanclimbs
Apr 23, 2007, 12:16 PM
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Doesn't matter what i like, its what you like that is important. your the one climbing with them.
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chossmonkey
Apr 23, 2007, 3:02 PM
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I'd have to agree with Tradman.
It kinda seems like the type of question you should have been asking before you bought them. Now you just need to go use them and develop your own opinion.
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natec
Apr 23, 2007, 3:58 PM
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I climbed with them this past season and I really like mine a lot. For what it's worth.
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trebork2
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Apr 25, 2007, 1:45 PM
Post #5 of 17
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I just bought a pair. They are damn nice! I like them.
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the_climber
Apr 25, 2007, 3:32 PM
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I have only climbed on them a couple times.
They seem to be quite a good tool, but I can say that if "I" were to climb with them I would need quite an adjustment period. They seem to swing good, but between the handle and the different geometry I found I pumped out way faster on them than my Taa-k-oon's or my Fly's. But that's just what "I" found... you might find you like them more than I did.
When it comes down to it, this really does seem to be a tool that prople either like A LOT or dislike A LOT. Like everyother tool out there it will WORK for anyone, but won't be FOR everyone.
Take it out on a good couple test runs BEFORE you commit to a big climb. That would be my advice.
(This post was edited by the_climber on Apr 25, 2007, 3:33 PM)
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taino
Apr 25, 2007, 3:44 PM
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In the interest of full disclosure, I don't like Black Diamond tools in general; the swing feels wrong to me. The sole exception seems to be the Cobras, and even then they have to be very well-tuned. However, I make it a point to try different tools whenever I can so that I can give a reasonably informed opinion.
I found that the swing was classic Black Diamond; either you like it, or you don't. The grips felt uncomfortable in my Cloudveil IceFlow gloves; almost like the handle was too large. It also felt a little slippery, but that might be because I'm used to Quarks. The biggest issue I had was with clearance - the secondary handle is so large that it can impede getting a solid placement in cauliflower ice or when moving up over bulges.
As others have mentioned, the time to ask these questions was before you bought them.
T
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vdotmatrix
Jun 20, 2007, 3:37 AM
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Interesting point about the BD tools. I don't like the swing either. I tried a couple of BD tools last season. I suppose it takes time to study the geometry of ANY tool and map out what kind of mechanical swing you need to picture in your mind, to make the pick precisely impact the target. I watched Bayard swing them so nicely in a video while he climbed at Cathedral. It looked like he got some good head velocity with the tool. I tried them at Arathusa Falls and kept bashing the front part of the pick on the ice so it would sometimes BOUNCE off the ice. I saw this happen again and again; people bashing the ice. Wrong swing trajectory. i suppose if i had the tool at home and mapped out the tool and practiced the swing in my living room, to get a feel for trajectory and force, i or anyone , would adapt to any tool. I climb with the nomics. ooooo-la-la. There is a film about to tour the country and one of the trailers for the movie HIGHER GROUND, is some guy climbing Ames Ice Hose, solo, using the Petzl nomics. One remarkable, thing i noticed was the similar and familiar tool swing. I climbed with the Quarks, the ERGO and now the Nomics, and they have similar swing or pick position. Shoot, I digress from the subject.....
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anykineclimb
Jun 20, 2007, 3:46 AM
Post #9 of 17
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vdotmatrix wrote: There is a film about to tour the country and one of the trailers for the movie HIGHER GROUND, is some guy climbing Ames Ice Hose, solo, using the Petzl nomics.
LOL
"some guy" well yeah, its GUY Lacelle
(This post was edited by anykineclimb on Jun 20, 2007, 3:48 AM)
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vdotmatrix
Jun 20, 2007, 4:13 AM
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Registered: Aug 25, 2006
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anykineclimb wrote: vdotmatrix wrote: There is a film about to tour the country and one of the trailers for the movie HIGHER GROUND, is some guy climbing Ames Ice Hose, solo, using the Petzl nomics. LOL "some guy" well yeah, its GUY Lacelle
Thanks, Sorry Guy, Some great climber guy, Mr. Guy Lacelle
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kimgraves
Jun 22, 2007, 5:44 PM
Post #11 of 17
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Registered: Jan 13, 2003
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vdotmatrix wrote: Interesting point about the BD tools. I don't like the swing either. I tried a couple of BD tools last season. I suppose it takes time to study the geometry of ANY tool and map out what kind of mechanical swing you need to picture in your mind, to make the pick precisely impact the target. I watched Bayard swing them so nicely in a video while he climbed at Cathedral. It looked like he got some good head velocity with the tool. I tried them at Arathusa Falls and kept bashing the front part of the pick on the ice so it would sometimes BOUNCE off the ice. I saw this happen again and again; people bashing the ice. Wrong swing trajectory. i suppose if i had the tool at home and mapped out the tool and practiced the swing in my living room, to get a feel for trajectory and force, i or anyone , would adapt to any tool.
I think the BD axes, like the Chouinard pin hammer they descend from, have the balance of a heavy framing hammer. (Remember, Chouinard was a blacksmith.) If you've swung a hammer all day doing construction, you come to appreciate the efficiency of weight in the head. But they can be difficult to control, especially with your non-dominate hand, if you're not practiced. It takes a lot of practice to make precise swings - to control the weight - to give that little flick of your wrist at the end of the swing to set the tool precisely.
My partner Matt and I, when we went to buy tools, went and picked up everything we could find. Matt and I have done carpentry for 25 years each. The BD Vipers were the only tools that felt like the tools we were used to on the job-site. Coupled with a Fang and we've used them leash-less last season.
That said, we climb with a couple of people who are much better ice climbers than we are and they prefer other tools (Quarks, etc). But to us, those other tools feel like mush in our hand. In other words it's all about what works for you.
Best, Kim
(This post was edited by kimgraves on Jun 22, 2007, 5:47 PM)
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thedejongs
Jun 22, 2007, 6:09 PM
Post #12 of 17
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Registered: Mar 8, 2005
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If you're interested in seeing an advance vid of the "some Guy" climbing the Ames Ice Hose, click right here:
http://www.alpinist.com/video/
Yesterday was summer solstice. Winter is on its way, now!
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tradmanclimbs
Jun 22, 2007, 6:27 PM
Post #13 of 17
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Registered: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 2599
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Buying ice tools based on what works for a hotshot ropegun in a movie or add has little bearing on how you are going to climb with said tools. Get what works for YOU not what works for the advertisers. Its just like those victoria secret adds. Chances are pretty darn good that you ain't gonna look like the model no matter how much money you spend that being said the nomic and Quark tools are excelent as are the Vipers w/ fangs. the swings are quite diferent. 100% leashless may not be the best path for you. If you choose to use leashes part of the time the BD android leashes are much better than the CM Clipper leash. many harmen/women mount the BD android on their quarks.
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anykineclimb
Jun 24, 2007, 1:57 AM
Post #15 of 17
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Registered: Mar 30, 2003
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stymingersfink wrote: thedejongs wrote: Yesterday was summer solstice. Winter is on its way, now! Whoop! WHOOP!!!111 
I was thinking the same thing!! all downhill now!
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furrymurry
Jul 7, 2007, 11:53 AM
Post #16 of 17
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Registered: Sep 6, 2004
Posts: 205
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Swung them this winter as was not impressed. Handle just felt weird. I climb leashless with Quarks.
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brent_e
Jul 12, 2007, 10:14 PM
Post #17 of 17
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Registered: Dec 15, 2004
Posts: 5111
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anykineclimb wrote: vdotmatrix wrote: There is a film about to tour the country and one of the trailers for the movie HIGHER GROUND, is some guy climbing Ames Ice Hose, solo, using the Petzl nomics. LOL "some guy" well yeah, its GUY Lacelle
and not pronounced 'guy' but geeeeee
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