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slopjop
Jul 19, 2007, 7:02 PM
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recently had a pretty bad fall on an 11' roof problem. i was pretty stretched out and my feet blew...
body pendulum to the max, spotter insisted i was going to fast for her to stop my pendulum at the apex and i flew back and landed on my chest totally missing the pad.
feeble wrist and ankle sprained and swollen.
should i have complained about not catching my pendulum or not moving the pad fast enough?
or- should i have just tried to tuck and roll as best as possible owing it to the fact that i was moving pretty damn fast and there was no way my spotter should be held partially responsible?
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caughtinside
Jul 19, 2007, 7:05 PM
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sounds like a pretty wild fall. Seems like the best bet is more pats, and maybe arm your spotter with a pad so she can block american gladiator style, rather then get the hell kicked out of her.
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slopjop
Jul 19, 2007, 7:07 PM
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american gladiator style...i like it...
i really think more pad space is the best answer to that..i think i'd still like to try to avoid the fall face down from that high up when you know you can't nail your feet on a crumple and roll move.
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lodi5onu
Jul 19, 2007, 7:10 PM
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how high off the ground were you? unless you were above her head she should have stopped you before you reached the apex of your swing no matter how wild your feet were going...ditch her and find a new spotter who cares about your life
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slopjop
Jul 19, 2007, 7:11 PM
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i was 11' off the ground
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jakedatc
Jul 19, 2007, 7:16 PM
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I agree with CI.. you need to have pads in the right place if you're going to go that high and be horizontal..
spotter with a blocker pad will help too since they will be more a)willing b) able to push you back onto the pads.
if you missed the pad totally then they were placed wrong.. you have to anticipate what will happen later on in the route.. that means the spotter moving the pads to better locations as you go. if they are not familiar with the problem then you gotta tell them. hey. move this over here cuz i swing out and fall.
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lodi5onu
Jul 19, 2007, 7:17 PM
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gotcha, from the OP it sounded like you were on an 11' roof...that's not too high off the ground but you still probably should have had at least 2 pads...it's the spotters job to anticipate any possible fall scenario and adjust accordingly though
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slopjop
Jul 19, 2007, 7:19 PM
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gotcha...i was most definitely not as communicative as i should have been
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boulderman
Jul 26, 2007, 3:22 PM
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lodi5onu wrote: it's the spotters job to anticipate any possible fall scenario and adjust accordingly though
I definitely don't agree with that.... Ultimately it's your ass on the line, so it's your job to anticipate any possible fall scenario and adjust accordingly. It sounds like you need a few pads and a couple more spotters. And, maybe you shouldn't rely on one female to "pick" you out of the sky on a 11' horizontal swinging fall..... Gets some big bodies under you, if you expect anyone to sacrifice themselves for you. Tell someone to hold a pad like a "blocking dummy" so they can effectively push you onto the pad without getting elbowed in the teeth.
Honestly, all I really expect from my spotters is to keep my body on the pad and my head off the ground. Silly boulderer.... climbing's dangerous.
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lodi5onu
Jul 26, 2007, 3:30 PM
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no, it's the climbers job to climb and the spotters job to spot. The job description for a spotter is to "anticipate any possible fall scenario and adjust accordingly" the job description of the climber is to climb. I wouldn't even ask somebody to spot me if he/she expected me to tell them where to move, stand, re-locate the pad...how can i be 100% focused on the problem in that scenario? True it's not the responsibility of the spotter to "pick" the climber out of the sky and place him/her gently on the mat...i agree with: "spotters is to keep my body on the pad and my head off the ground"
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boulderman
Jul 26, 2007, 4:13 PM
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lodi5onu wrote: no, it's the climbers job to climb and the spotters job to spot. The job description for a spotter is to "anticipate any possible fall scenario and adjust accordingly" the job description of the climber is to climb. I wouldn't even ask somebody to spot me if he/she expected me to tell them where to move, stand, re-locate the pad...how can i be 100% focused on the problem in that scenario?
So you don't place your own pads based on your specific knowledge/experience of the movement of a specific problem/project? Your quote is a bunch of BS.... I'm sure as hell not gonna let a bunch of V2 boulders place my pads and make spotting decisions on my V10 project, where the fall potential is solely based on my beta, movement, and commitment.... All why stand around getting psyched. Of course spotting is a team effort that relies on communication between spotters and the climber. But, it starts with the climber because in the end it's their choice to climb in the first place and they are the one protecting themselves... It’s not the spotter that gets fucked up when you miss the poorly place pad. But whatever, I'm not the one falling their face and complaining about it.....
You wouldn’t let someone else pack your parachute would you?
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lodi5onu
Jul 26, 2007, 5:18 PM
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In reply to: So you don't place your own pads based on your specific knowledge/experience of the movement of a specific problem/project?
In reply to: I'm sure as hell not gonna let a bunch of V2 boulders place my pads and make spotting decisions on my V10 project, where the fall potential is solely based on my beta, movement, and commitment.... All why stand around getting psyched.  ...i never suggested letting anybody else place the pads for my problem...i used the term re-locate In reply to: I'm not the one falling their face and complaining about it..... In reply to: You wouldn’t let someone else pack your parachute would you? |
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jt512
Jul 26, 2007, 11:37 PM
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boulderman wrote: You wouldn’t let someone else pack your parachute would you?
Yes, actually, I would. In fact, unless you are a Federally licensed parachute rigger, you cannot legally pack a parachute in the U.S., with two exceptions: (1) you can pack the main canopy of a sport parachute rig for your own use, and (2) you can pack a parachute under the supervision of a Federally licensed rigger.
Jay
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boulderman
Jul 27, 2007, 1:11 PM
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my point is, take responsibility for yourself. Don't expect anyone to "pick" you out of the sky during a fall. All the spotters can do, is do their best to bring you to pad feet first and keep you on the pad and your head off the ground. It's your choice to get on the boulder and if you didn't bring enough pads or spots then that's your fault......
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sevrdhed
Jul 27, 2007, 1:40 PM
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I can see both sides of this retarded argument. On the one hand, I certainly wouldn't let a bunch of V2 climbers spot me. In fact, why would I even hang out with V2 climbers? Everyone knows that how hard someone boulders is the ultimate test for everything else in their lives, such as their ability to spot, carry on a conversation, drive, make quality beer purchasing decisions, etc.
Seriously though, there's cases when I trust other peoples judgement for pad placement, and cases where I'll make my own if it's my ass that's falling off the problem. I have a pretty good group of guys that I climb with that I would definitely trust to make any decision regarding saving my ass from hitting the ground. If they want to move the pads while I'm climbing, I trust them 100%.
Then, there's people whom I'd give very specific intrusctions to. "Spot me right there, keep me away from that boulder, I'm going to be coming down right about here." This has more to do with my knowledge of their experience and ability, and my willingness to trust them.
Ultimately, that's what it comes down to, is trust. It's just like a belayer. If you have a group of spotters you can trust, you'll be able to climb without worrying about what happens if you blow it. And that's the whole idea, right?
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rolling_boulders
Aug 14, 2007, 5:22 AM
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It might also help if you climb in a developed area, offer to work with other parties. Being as broke as I am I only have one pad, so I try to find other people at the area who might be gunning to work with. teamwork is the reason I was fine when I took a twelve footer off a roof project (4 spotters and 3 pads instead of my buddy and my pad).
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psecody
Aug 16, 2007, 5:44 PM
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boulderman wrote: You wouldn’t let someone else pack your parachute would you?
Nevermind about the parachute thing...someone beat me to it haha.
Now a question sort of related to the topic. Is the Mad Rock Mad Pad a very good pad to get for starting?
(This post was edited by psecody on Aug 16, 2007, 5:48 PM)
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climbordie7
Aug 16, 2007, 5:58 PM
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hey i did almost the same thing in october. i was working roof in a gym about 9 to 10 feet off the ground and did this swing like reach to my next hold and slipped off it. my body did this full speed swing past the hold i had reached to and i landed on the side of my ankle, i sprained it. that kind of problem has only happened twice to me. but the second time i fell like that i landed on my feet and was fine.
i like the whole gladiators crash pad approach.
to stop the swinging while reaching for stuff what i do is tighten my abs and lock off really well, i trained myself to fall correctly. sometimes it is impossible to do so though.
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climbordie7
Aug 16, 2007, 6:05 PM
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that is one of the meanest things i have heard this week. there is nothing wrong with v2 climbers. i have many friends who are v2 climbers. and everyone starts somewhere. i have a friend who only started a couple of months ago and is already doing v3. don't judge people like that. by the way i only climb v4 right now and i work at a rock gym. i was a terrific spotter when i climbed v2 at best. i mean seriously just because someone isn't a pro doesn't mean they can't spot.
plus it is so wrong to judge someones life by their climbing ability.
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jakedatc
Aug 16, 2007, 6:13 PM
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climbordie7 wrote: that is one of the meanest things i have heard this week. there is nothing wrong with v2 climbers. i have many friends who are v2 climbers. and everyone starts somewhere. i have a friend who only started a couple of months ago and is already doing v3. don't judge people like that. by the way i only climb v4 right now and i work at a rock gym. i was a terrific spotter when i climbed v2 at best. i mean seriously just because someone isn't a pro doesn't mean they can't spot. plus it is so wrong to judge someones life by their climbing ability.
must... save...from.. deletion 
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climbordie7
Aug 16, 2007, 6:22 PM
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are you making fun of my climbing level. if you are then you are just mean. its not like i have been climbing for 4+ years and can't get better.
i have been climbing for two years and part of that time there was this little thing called Katrina, it desroyed the place i climbed at, i couldn't climb for like 3 1/2 months, i was also out for two months on two different occasions of ankle sprainage. and now i am currently battling an ongoing issue with my left shoulderblade, l;ike for the past 3 months. so why don't you get over yourself.
just because i am not amazing doesn't mean i don't love to climb, and am not a passionate about it as the next girl. sorry if i am not good enough for you. it is really rediculous to be cruel to someone you don't even know because they aren't as good as you.
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8flood8
Aug 16, 2007, 6:26 PM
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while the idea blocking someone's pendjulum with a pad to keep them on the other pad is a great....
how pissed would you be if your spotter knocked you off of your problem?
i have seen plenty of full body pendjulums where the hands did NOT blow and any "help" from spotters would have ruined the run.
Clay, your spotter is not at fault here, not one iota. Wait until you have two monstrous feet swinging at your face and see how great you spot. (not flaming here, so please don't take that connotation)
So now to the important stuff...
where is this 11' roof problem in san angelo?? because fuckin a i got so tired of the damn beaty boulders.
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slopjop
Aug 16, 2007, 6:35 PM
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it's the woodie at my house, carlos...call when you come into town next and help me set some routes!
yah, i think the responsibility completely lies on my willingness to do a route and go for broke on shifty toe hooks. i think more pads is definitely the way to go and since then i've manufactured a base layer of padding on the concrete that the pads rest on.
(This post was edited by slopjop on Aug 16, 2007, 6:36 PM)
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sevrdhed
Aug 16, 2007, 7:42 PM
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climbordie7 wrote: that is one of the meanest things i have heard this week. there is nothing wrong with v2 climbers. i have many friends who are v2 climbers. and everyone starts somewhere. i have a friend who only started a couple of months ago and is already doing v3. don't judge people like that. by the way i only climb v4 right now and i work at a rock gym. i was a terrific spotter when i climbed v2 at best. i mean seriously just because someone isn't a pro doesn't mean they can't spot. plus it is so wrong to judge someones life by their climbing ability.
Here's a hint, since it's pretty apparent that you totally dab at the internet. When someone posts something totally ridiculous and inflammatory and assholish, and then the next paragraph starts off with the words Seriously though, heres an idea; Maybe that means you SHOULDN'T take the part before that seriously.
Just a thought. Go back to flailing, weakmo.
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climbordie7
Aug 16, 2007, 7:52 PM
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if you didn't mean it then why did you say it. that is like asking for a fight. sorry for flaming but you were totally asking for it. and hello of coarse i am weaker than you, i am a girl.
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