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climbinginchico
Aug 22, 2007, 6:19 AM
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174.
*twitch*
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lena_chita
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Aug 22, 2007, 1:20 PM
Post #52 of 67
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organic wrote: Anyone who can talk to their 8 year old son about Quantum mechanics knows little to nothing about it or his son is a super genius ...<snip>...
You missed another posssibility-- the 8yo son is question is an Aspie. Mother sort-of Aspie, Dad sort-of Aspie, and Aspie kid, get it? We do have very weird conversations in our family.
The said child has drawn a Periodic table (from memory) at the age of 5yo. And got upset that the squares came out crooked. 'nuff said.
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robbovius
Aug 22, 2007, 2:00 PM
Post #53 of 67
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I scored 11.
hey, if an autistic person is gay, does that make them an "Aut fag" ? ;-)
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organic
Aug 22, 2007, 3:13 PM
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lena_chita wrote: organic wrote: Anyone who can talk to their 8 year old son about Quantum mechanics knows little to nothing about it or his son is a super genius ...<snip>... You missed another posssibility-- the 8yo son is question is an Aspie. Mother sort-of Aspie, Dad sort-of Aspie, and Aspie kid, get it? We do have very weird conversations in our family. The said child has drawn a Periodic table (from memory) at the age of 5yo. And got upset that the squares came out crooked. 'nuff said.
Did he draw in Ununhexium and Ununoctium because I heard they removed them? WHAT A SCANDAL!
Pretty funny how ya'll are trying to argue for your son to HAVE autism. Fine I will agree with you, your son has autism/asperger's, feel better now?
PS. Sort of Aspie + sort of Aspie does not make "aspie" in genetics, just as blue eyes and green eyes don't make blue green eyes.
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camhead
Aug 23, 2007, 11:05 PM
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24
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lena_chita
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Aug 24, 2007, 2:10 AM
Post #58 of 67
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organic wrote: Pretty funny how ya'll are trying to argue for your son to HAVE autism. Fine I will agree with you, your son has autism/asperger's, feel better now?
I wasn't arguing-- I was simply informing you of the fact.
organic wrote: PS. Sort of Aspie + sort of Aspie does not make "aspie" in genetics, just as blue eyes and green eyes don't make blue green eyes.
Oh, so you are a geneticist now? I thought quantum mechanics was your speciality...
Where did you get the idea that Aspergers is a single-gene trait with the same inheritance rules as eye color? Care to name the gene that's responsible? I know a bunch of genetics labs that would be very interested to know the answer.
Have you ever heard or multi-gene traits, and things like incomplete penetrance, modifiers and environmental influences?
There are many examples where the trait has genetic component AND is additive, as well as having an environmental component. Two tall parents having a kid who is taller than either one of them-- I am sure you've seen examples of that in real life...
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organic
Aug 24, 2007, 3:21 AM
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lena_chita wrote: organic wrote: Pretty funny how ya'll are trying to argue for your son to HAVE autism. Fine I will agree with you, your son has autism/asperger's, feel better now? I wasn't arguing-- I was simply informing you of the fact. organic wrote: PS. Sort of Aspie + sort of Aspie does not make "aspie" in genetics, just as blue eyes and green eyes don't make blue green eyes. Oh, so you are a geneticist now? I thought quantum mechanics was your speciality... Where did you get the idea that Aspergers is a single-gene trait with the same inheritance rules as eye color? Care to name the gene that's responsible? I know a bunch of genetics labs that would be very interested to know the answer. Have you ever heard or multi-gene traits, and things like incomplete penetrance, modifiers and environmental influences? There are many examples where the trait has genetic component AND is additive, as well as having an environmental component. Two tall parents having a kid who is taller than either one of them-- I am sure you've seen examples of that in real life...
Oh this is awesome! Actually I am a geneticist/molecular biologist with some training in Biophysics. Even though I work mostly with bacteria I have had much training in Eukaryotic gene regulation and development. Apparently you have had training in neither physics or genetics... I'm sorry to burst your bubble but please show me one paper on aspergers/autism that says it is caused by environmental non-genetic/gene modifying factors(if thats what you mean). If by environment you mean exposure to chemicals and pesticides, there has been some studies into this and even Sebat et al. Science April 2007 suggest autism at least somtimes arises from de novo mutations.
Height is a developmental trait as you said that is affected by many many genes but not only genes also morphogens, which can be affected by innumerable factors. Take a basic class in developmental biology and you will understand height and how you have zero ability to relate it to autism. Incomplete penetrance argument is moot, it is associated only with autosomal dominant traits and autism has been suggested to be recessive, Ritvo et al. AJP 1985, but this is now proven to be a little more complicated! But if autism was autosomal dominant I think they would have figured that out by now.
So unless you are exposing your child to chemicals or you were exposed to chemicals during their birth, your argument of you being sort of Aspie still doesn't hold.
Modifiers? of what? Are we just trying to throw words around? Have you heard of miRNAs causing histone modifications that affect Sox2?
You can continue to argue but I see no point to continue. Don't challenge someone to a battle of the mind and then come unarmed.
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climbsomething
Aug 24, 2007, 3:34 AM
Post #60 of 67
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As somebody who is close to autism, and has been since before the awareness campaigns, there's something about this "test" that rubs me the wrong way.
At least they don't have cutesy little banners to stick in your MySpace. Like, "You are: RAINMAN. You like Wapner, can crush and pwn in Vegas, and don't like smoke detectors."
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blondgecko
Moderator
Aug 24, 2007, 4:45 AM
Post #61 of 67
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organic wrote: lena_chita wrote: organic wrote: Pretty funny how ya'll are trying to argue for your son to HAVE autism. Fine I will agree with you, your son has autism/asperger's, feel better now? I wasn't arguing-- I was simply informing you of the fact. organic wrote: PS. Sort of Aspie + sort of Aspie does not make "aspie" in genetics, just as blue eyes and green eyes don't make blue green eyes. Oh, so you are a geneticist now? I thought quantum mechanics was your speciality... Where did you get the idea that Aspergers is a single-gene trait with the same inheritance rules as eye color? Care to name the gene that's responsible? I know a bunch of genetics labs that would be very interested to know the answer. Have you ever heard or multi-gene traits, and things like incomplete penetrance, modifiers and environmental influences? There are many examples where the trait has genetic component AND is additive, as well as having an environmental component. Two tall parents having a kid who is taller than either one of them-- I am sure you've seen examples of that in real life... Oh this is awesome! Actually I am a geneticist/molecular biologist with some training in Biophysics. Even though I work mostly with bacteria I have had much training in Eukaryotic gene regulation and development. Apparently you have had training in neither physics or genetics... I'm sorry to burst your bubble but please show me one paper on aspergers/autism that says it is caused by environmental non-genetic/gene modifying factors(if thats what you mean). If by environment you mean exposure to chemicals and pesticides, there has been some studies into this and even Sebat et al. Science April 2007 suggest autism at least somtimes arises from de novo mutations. Height is a developmental trait as you said that is affected by many many genes but not only genes also morphogens, which can be affected by innumerable factors. Take a basic class in developmental biology and you will understand height and how you have zero ability to relate it to autism. Incomplete penetrance argument is moot, it is associated only with autosomal dominant traits and autism has been suggested to be recessive, Ritvo et al. AJP 1985, but this is now proven to be a little more complicated! But if autism was autosomal dominant I think they would have figured that out by now. So unless you are exposing your child to chemicals or you were exposed to chemicals during their birth, your argument of you being sort of Aspie still doesn't hold. Modifiers? of what? Are we just trying to throw words around? Have you heard of miRNAs causing histone modifications that affect Sox2? You can continue to argue but I see no point to continue. Don't challenge someone to a battle of the mind and then come unarmed.
Not only are you an asshole, but you're wrong as well.
Quoting directly from Ylisaukko-oja et al, 2004*:
In reply to: Since the first observations, problems with social interaction have frequently been observed in AS patients’ family members, suggesting familial aggregation of the syndrome.
Note that they give seven further references to support this statement.
They then go on to show that 9 separate chromosomal regions show a strong association with the disease, two of which overlap with previously published autism susceptibility loci, and two with schizophrenia susceptibility loci.
So, the disease is associated with multiple genes on different chromosomes, and there is evidence of lower-severity effects in people not carrying all the alleles.
So, you're comprehensively wrong, and I think you owe the lady an apology.
* Genome-wide scan for loci of Asperger syndrome, Molecular Psychiatry (2004) 9, 161–168
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lena_chita
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Aug 24, 2007, 5:28 PM
Post #62 of 67
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organic wrote: Oh this is awesome! Actually I am a geneticist/molecular biologist with some training in Biophysics. Even though I work mostly with bacteria I have had much training in Eukaryotic gene regulation and development. Apparently you have had training in neither physics or genetics....
Nice one! I work in cancer genetics lab. (Ph.D. in Molecular biology.) And unlike you, I DO work with Eukaryotic gene regulation, instead of bacteria.
organic wrote: I'm sorry to burst your bubble but please show me one paper on aspergers/autism that says it is caused by environmental non-genetic/gene modifying factors(if thats what you mean). If by environment you mean exposure to chemicals and pesticides, there has been some studies into this and even Sebat et al. Science April 2007 suggest autism at least somtimes arises from de novo mutations. Height is a developmental trait as you said that is affected by many many genes but not only genes also morphogens, which can be affected by innumerable factors. Take a basic class in developmental biology and you will understand height and how you have zero ability to relate it to autism. Incomplete penetrance argument is moot, it is associated only with autosomal dominant traits and autism has been suggested to be recessive, Ritvo et al. AJP 1985, but this is now proven to be a little more complicated! But if autism was autosomal dominant I think they would have figured that out by now. So unless you are exposing your child to chemicals or you were exposed to chemicals during their birth, your argument of you being sort of Aspie still doesn't hold..
I don't think you read what I wrote carefully. I simply stated that Autism is most likely a multi-gene trait, instead of being explained by one gene, whether dominant or recessive. You were using eye color as an example and I said that it was not applicable. Height would be a better example, and there the effect of the parental genes CAN be additive
You said that two sort-of Aspies don't make an Aspie. But there are studies that say otherwise. It is usually recognized in retrospect-- the parents of an autistic child can often be diagnosed as "shadow autistic" Encephale. 2007 May-Jun;33(3 Pt 1):285-92,
Brain Cogn. 2006 Jun;61(1):122-30.
I can't find the link now, but there was a study done in Silicone Valley showing that around the time there was an explosion of growth there, there was also an increase in autistic kids that was much higher than in the rest of California at the same time, and explanation was that for the first time there was a high concentration of Aspie-like males and females who were working together (and naturally often forming relationships and families and eventually producing kids) and that was explaining the much higher percentage of Aspie kids being diagnosed there.
This was my original point. But if you want to talk about environmental factors, O.K.
I am not arguing that there is genetic component to autism-- OF course there is! I am saying that it is a combination of genetic and environmental factors-- there is simply too much literature to quote on this... And yes, I read the Science paper that you were quoting earlier. Science. 2007 Apr 20;316(5823):445-9.-- notice that they list about 20 loci showing copy-number association. not exactly your eye-color analogy.
However, back to the environment...
One thing that Has been proven to be associated with Aspergers is the parental age. Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 2007 Apr;161(4):334-40. You could say that this is because there is more chance of de novo mutations arising as the parental DNA has more chance to be exposed to DNA-damaging agents... which would be the same as saying environmental effect, right?
Another environmental association study showed that autism was more prevalent in urbanized areas-- again, environment effect. J Child Psychol Psychiatry. 2005 Sep;46(9):963-71
.
You could say that the above two examples are just confirming the genetic effect (more exposure to toxins, either with age, or due to living in industrialized areas = higher mutation rate)
How about other "environmental factors" that aren't likely to be explained away simply with increased mutation rate? -- Aspergers is associated with things like pre-term labor, post-maturity and complications during labor, though depending on the study some fators appear more significant, and some don't always replicate, but it seems to be a combination of factors, rather than a single obstetric event. Dev Med Child Neurol. 2004 Oct;46(10):652-60
J Autism Dev Disord. 2005 Apr;35(2):159-66
"Environmentsl enough" for you?
And other things are still in question. Vaccine story did not hold up-- at least not MMR. But there are still things that haven't been looked at-- such as combination of vaccines, the fact that kids these days get a lot more of thosevaccined at an early age than anyone ever had before....
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kostik
Aug 24, 2007, 6:05 PM
Post #63 of 67
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organic wrote: Modifiers? of what? Are we just trying to throw words around? Have you heard of miRNAs causing histone modifications that affect Sox2?
My wife was talking of a modifier as a genetic term. Not as biochemical as in your example, which you pulled randomly from somewhere.
Let's see... Organic = Josiah Zayner. A grad student. Our new biochemical celebrity.
Not a single publication in Pubmed.
Pity.
A first year med student in the group I am teaching already has two.
Just some kid who spends too much time in his 8a.nu profile instead of working on his degree. Your efforts to show that you are intellectually superior because you can throw some random terms around are pathetic.
I suggest that you spend more time in the lab and read papers more in depth, not just the titles and abstracts as you do.
(This post was edited by kostik on Aug 24, 2007, 6:14 PM)
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reno
Aug 24, 2007, 6:19 PM
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lena_chita wrote: organic wrote: Oh this is awesome! Actually I am a geneticist/molecular biologist with some training in Biophysics. Even though I work mostly with bacteria I have had much training in Eukaryotic gene regulation and development. Apparently you have had training in neither physics or genetics.... Nice one! I work in cancer genetics lab. (Ph.D. in Molecular biology.) And unlike you, I DO work with Eukaryotic gene regulation, instead of bacteria.
Heh. Got your ass handed to you, didn't you, Organic?
At least Lena was kind and polite about it, which is more than you can claim.
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cracklover
Aug 24, 2007, 7:17 PM
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Best of rc.com, 2007
GO
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microbarn
Aug 25, 2007, 11:34 AM
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now that that is settled....back to an important question:
what color are mine eyes ballz?
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blondgecko
Moderator
Aug 25, 2007, 11:39 AM
Post #67 of 67
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Hmm... seems like the lady can take care of herself! 
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MineEyes.jpg
