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who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video?
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dr_feelgood


Sep 20, 2007, 2:09 AM
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Re: [wideguy] who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video? [In reply to]
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wideguy wrote:
dr_feelgood wrote:
Fuckin rent-a-cops. Since when did they start arming those fucker.

I don't know about this case but on some schools the campus cops are real cops. At UMASS-Amherst the "Campus Cops" are academy graduated municipal police. They are actually one of the largest police forces in the state.
A rose is a rose......


dr_feelgood


Sep 20, 2007, 2:09 AM
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Re: [dr_feelgood] who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video? [In reply to]
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dr_feelgood wrote:
wideguy wrote:
dr_feelgood wrote:
Fuckin rent-a-cops. Since when did they start arming those fucker.

I don't know about this case but on some schools the campus cops are real cops. At UMASS-Amherst the "Campus Cops" are academy graduated municipal police. They are actually one of the largest police forces in the state.
A rose is a rose......

PTFTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111111111


Partner wideguy


Sep 20, 2007, 2:11 AM
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Re: [dr_feelgood] who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video? [In reply to]
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No it wasn't
Cool


dr_feelgood


Sep 20, 2007, 2:17 AM
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Re: [wideguy] who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video? [In reply to]
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Just becuase prolapsed is your preferred status, doesn;t make you a bad person.


ClusterFock


Sep 20, 2007, 2:18 AM
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Re: [clausti] who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video? [In reply to]
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"help me! Help meeeee!"
Hahaha what a fucking chump.


blondgecko
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Sep 20, 2007, 3:05 AM
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Re: [fenix83] who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video? [In reply to]
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fenix83 wrote:
veganclimber wrote:
My point is that the police response should be appropriate. Potentially killing someone for vandalism is not, in my opinion, appropriate.

I understand your point. My point is, anything you can do to subdue an individual who does not want to be subdued is potentially deadly.

Yup - as is simply chasing them. How many times a year do people wipe themselves out while being chased by the cops? Running into traffic, jumping off overpasses, crashing cars... hell, recently here in Australia there were riots over a kid who impaled and killed himself on a fence while fleeing police on his bike.

Everything we do carries risk - everything. And in my book, if you're committing a crime, then you've already tacitly accepted the risks involved.


veganclimber


Sep 20, 2007, 3:14 AM
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clausti


Sep 20, 2007, 4:47 AM
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Re: [veganclimber] who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video? [In reply to]
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speaking of tasers.


In reply to:
Family attorney Rick Alexander said Delafield's death could have been prevented and that there are four things that jump out at him about the case.

"One, she's in a wheelchair. Two, she's schizophrenic. Three, they're using a Taser on a person that's in a wheelchair, and then four is that they tasered her 10 times for a period of like two minutes," Alexander said.


lagr01


Sep 20, 2007, 5:30 AM
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Re: [clausti] who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video? [In reply to]
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clausti wrote:
i'm anti-pit bulls too.


I dunno what this have to do with police brutality, but a very uninformed opinion, IMO. Ever wondered why dog attacks numbers keep increasing in the UK even though pit bulls and other "bully" breeds are banned? "blame the deed, not the breed"

clausti wrote:
yeah, jack russles bite.... but that doesnt kill ppl.

How 'bout Pomeranians?


reno


Sep 20, 2007, 6:37 AM
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Re: [arrettinator] who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video? [In reply to]
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arrettinator wrote:
I don't know if it is the case in every state, but in many states in order to be allowed to even carry a taser the officer must be tased him/herself.

I don't know the laws or regulations of each state, so I can't speak to that, but Arret's point is accurate for every police force I've worked with: When Tazers are introduced or assigned to individual officers, the officer must get tazed first. Ditto for pepper spray, if you care.

And, for shits and grins (and a $20 bet), I let myself be tazed once.

Holy. Fuck.

Never again.


reno


Sep 20, 2007, 6:47 AM
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Re: [veganclimber] who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video? [In reply to]
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veganclimber wrote:
caughtinside wrote:
veganclimber wrote:
Dude, drawing on a stop sign is not that big of a deal.

neither is being tazed.

Usually not, but like I said before it can be deadly.

I am not aware of one single case of a tazer victim who died ONLY from the tazer. Such cases have ALWAYS, to the best of my knowledge, resulted in the individual having various types of drugs in their system.

The funny thing is that people who do get tazed, also invariably, end up portrayed as pillars of society "who read the Gospel to blind orphans, serve dinners at the homeless shelter, give food and homes to stray kittens, and teach Sunday School at the South Podunk Antioch Church, and weren't doing nothing but minding their own damn bidness when the cops come up and tazed him for no reason at all."

I've heard that story, or slight variations thereof, about 2,000 times in Atlanta, Denver, Phoenix, and points between.


(This post was edited by reno on Sep 20, 2007, 7:00 AM)


reno


Sep 20, 2007, 6:58 AM
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Re: [pjdf] who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video? [In reply to]
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pjdf wrote:
What worries me the most about this incident is basically the increasing militarization and use of violence by the police. There was a very interesting article in The New Repbulic (if I recall correctly) discussing the change over the last ~50 years of the police from a community member group to a small paramilitary group pretty cut off from the community.

Yeah, that's true, and I agree with your latter points lamenting this fact.

Consider, though, that criminals have gotten more and more violent in those same 50 years.

In 1957, you didn't have crazy lunatics shooting into a playground full of school children. You didn't get bank robbers in a shootout with the cops using full auto AK47s. You didn't have folks strung out on meth, driving 140mph through city streets.

Sure, there were the bar fights here and there, and the occasional murder, and so forth. But crime in general has gotten more violent in recent years. The police force, sadly, has had to change drastically to keep pace.


clausti


Sep 20, 2007, 12:03 PM
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Re: [reno] who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video? [In reply to]
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reno wrote:
I am not aware of one single case of a tazer victim who died ONLY from the tazer. Such cases have ALWAYS, to the best of my knowledge, resulted in the individual having various types of drugs in their system.


did you read my story about the lady in the wheelchair they tazed to death?

see above.

(schizophrenic, def threatening other ppl, but was tazed like, ten times and died.)


wjca


Sep 20, 2007, 12:46 PM
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Re: [clausti] who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video? [In reply to]
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clausti wrote:
reno wrote:
I am not aware of one single case of a tazer victim who died ONLY from the tazer. Such cases have ALWAYS, to the best of my knowledge, resulted in the individual having various types of drugs in their system.


did you read my story about the lady in the wheelchair they tazed to death?

see above.

(schizophrenic, def threatening other ppl, but was tazed like, ten times and died.)

The article also said she was swinging two knives and a hammer at her family and the police. What it didn't say is what happened after the first time she was tazed. Did she hold on to her weapons and continue swinging them? If so, she gets the tazer once again. And so on. Now, if she dropped the weapons, calmed down and was tazed again anyway, then there is a problem.

Keep in mind that when a crazy person is swinging two knives and a hammer, the cops are not just protecting everyone else from said crazy person. They are also trying to protect the crazy person from harming herself if they can. Just because she is in a wheelchair doesn't mean she was not capable of stabbing anyone that got close, or herself.

Clausti, you have to consider that there are other facts than what some dumbass journalist decided to write in his 10 paragraph article, which was then cut to 6 or so by his editor.


Partner wideguy


Sep 20, 2007, 1:18 PM
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Re: [clausti] who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video? [In reply to]
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clausti wrote:
did you read my story about the lady in the wheelchair they tazed to death?

In reply to:
State rules Taser death homicide

But prosecutors said the April shocking incident was justified.

By DANA TREEN, The Times-Union

Ten shocks from a police Taser were enough to kill a wheelchair-bound Green Cove Springs woman whose death in a confrontation with two officers in April has been ruled a homicide but, according to prosecutors, justified.

Emily Marie Delafield, 56, was in poor physical and mental health but would not have died if she had not been shocked for a total of 121 seconds by two Green Cove Springs officers, according to the autopsy included in a State Attorney's Office report released Friday. Delafield called police to her house then confronted them with knives and a hammer.

Associate Medical Examiner Valerie Rao, who performed the autopsy in Jacksonville last year, said the Taser shocks were a "very small factor" in the death of Delafield, who was obese and had an enlarged heart and was confined to a wheelchair. But the Tasers were a contributing factor, she said.

"You can't ignore it," Rao said Monday.

In July, Rao listed homicide as the manner of death, according to the State Attorney's report. She described Delafield as a woman who was on a "precipice" health-wise and said Taser shocks could have impacted Delafield's breathing.

But the State Attorney's Office report said officers James Acres and Barbara Luedtke were justified in using the Tasers on Delafield after she threatened the officers in the street in front of her home on Harrison Street.

"She was a dead woman walking," he said Monday. "There was no way she was going to survive that."

On the day after the incident, Emily Delafield's brother, Arnett Chase, said he and other family members believed police acted properly and it was the least-dangerous way to stop her from hurting herself or others.


Police knew Emily Delafield and had been at her house 28 times in the past, according to the state attorney's report. They knew of her mental health issues and had talked that day with family members who were concerned that she was not taking her medication for schizophrenia. Emily Delafield called police to say she believed her life was in danger and that her sister was trying to kill her, an accusation that was later ruled unsubstantiated, the report said.

Luedtke and Acres arrived at the house and decided not to use police batons or pepper spray on Delafield, who was on oxygen due to her medical condition.The officers discussed using Tasers with the family, including some who agreed with their use, authorities said. After a 13-minute standoff, Luedtke fired her Taser when Delafield raised the knife as if to throw it. When the shock did not appear to have an effect, Luedtke told investigators she recycled her Taser up to four times. Acres shocked Delafield two minutes later after Luedtke's shocks appeared not to be having an effect.

Later examination of the two weapons shows Luedtke's Taser was fired nine times and Acres' once for a total of 121 seconds.

Delafield collapsed several minutes after being shocked and died after she was taken to Orange Park Medical Center.

And now you know "The rest of the story"

This wasn't some otherwise perfectly healthy person, The police considered alternatives which were deemed to be MORE dangerous to her, and the family agreed that the use of Tasers was the safest course. This wasn't a careless rush to action on the part of some taser happy cops. It was a carefully considered action, approved by the woman's family, that unfortunately went wrong.

Edit:
And again, let's remember that the kid in the original video was not tased with full power. He was given a fractional voltage. And the news is now reporting that as soon as the video stopped rolling he was laughing and joking with the cops, asking if the girl had gotten it all on video and joking about how awesome it was going to look on his website.


(This post was edited by wideguy on Sep 20, 2007, 1:42 PM)


wjca


Sep 20, 2007, 2:03 PM
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I figured there was more to the story. Man, facts really confuse the sensationalism, don't they?


plund


Sep 20, 2007, 2:13 PM
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Re: [wideguy] who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video? [In reply to]
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re: the Kerry kid......seems he was looking for his 15 minutes of fame, and got it. He's probably laughing about it...if you're a publicity seeker, a few moments of pain are well worth the resultant notoriety...

re: biner's friend.....he didn't get tazed for defacing the sign, he got tazed for fleeing an LE officer. hey vegan...how about if it was your neighbor's house....or your house...or your car...still no big deal??

Once a LEO has decided to restrain / remove / arrest you, sorry but you're SOL. It's NOT the time to play street lawyer...to paraphrase TLJones in "The Fugitive, "THEY DON'T CARE!" The LEO doesn't know what a fine, upstanding citizen you think you are...and considering the amount of scum they typically deal with, can you blame 'em? How stressful is a job where going home alive is a daily concern?

I don't like cowboy cops...who does? But for every a-hole who donned a badge because he was picked on in high school, there's probably at least one who signed up sincerely to protect & serve. I'm grateful to those folks, and far too much a chickenshit to perform a job where physical safety is a primary concern.

If you resist / disobey / threaten a LEO, you're gonna take some form of beatdown, and likely deserve it. If the Kerry Kid "fell down" a few times on the way to the squad, too f'in bad. That's what you get for being an idiot.


Partner bill


Sep 20, 2007, 3:11 PM
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Re: [plund] who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video? [In reply to]
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The t-shirts are out.

http://www.cafepress.com/...io0o4CFSc3YAodiFvvng


clausti


Sep 20, 2007, 3:19 PM
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Re: [wjca] who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video? [In reply to]
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wjca wrote:
I figured there was more to the story. Man, facts really confuse the sensationalism, don't they?


omg, jeesh ppl. did you read me say that i didnt think she deserved to be tasered??

i just said that she died from it.

let it be known that i am def in favor of tasering crazy peeps with knives.


Partner wideguy


Sep 20, 2007, 3:40 PM
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Re: [clausti] who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video? [In reply to]
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clausti wrote:
wjca wrote:
I figured there was more to the story. Man, facts really confuse the sensationalism, don't they?


omg, jeesh ppl. did you read me say that i didnt think she deserved to be tasered??

i just said that she died from it.

Nice backpedal. You should go into politics!Tongue

No, you didn't say that, specifically. But based upon the fact that your general opinion from posts in this thread seems to be that you think police use tasers too frequently, it is not unreasonable that some of us took your first post about the woman in the wheelchair to be a point in continuation of that opinion.

Now, if your comment was simply in response to the question of lethality of tasers, then again, in this case, what Reno says holds true. In GENERAL, a taser alone will not kill a healthy person. If you're on other drugs, morbidly obese, have an enlarged heart and breathing issues, then yes, they can be. But so could simple physical restraint or chemical submission.


(This post was edited by wideguy on Sep 20, 2007, 3:40 PM)


wjca


Sep 20, 2007, 3:42 PM
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Re: [bill] who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video? [In reply to]
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bill wrote:
The t-shirts are out.

http://www.cafepress.com/...io0o4CFSc3YAodiFvvng





Partner macherry


Sep 20, 2007, 3:43 PM
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Re: [bill] who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video? [In reply to]
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bill wrote:
The t-shirts are out.

http://www.cafepress.com/...io0o4CFSc3YAodiFvvng

best line ever

bro!!


pjdf


Sep 20, 2007, 4:41 PM
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Re: [reno] who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video? [In reply to]
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reno wrote:
pjdf wrote:
What worries me the most about this incident is basically the increasing militarization and use of violence by the police. There was a very interesting article in The New Repbulic (if I recall correctly) discussing the change over the last ~50 years of the police from a community member group to a small paramilitary group pretty cut off from the community.

Yeah, that's true, and I agree with your latter points lamenting this fact.

Consider, though, that criminals have gotten more and more violent in those same 50 years.

In 1957, you didn't have crazy lunatics shooting into a playground full of school children. You didn't get bank robbers in a shootout with the cops using full auto AK47s. You didn't have folks strung out on meth, driving 140mph through city streets.

Sure, there were the bar fights here and there, and the occasional murder, and so forth. But crime in general has gotten more violent in recent years. The police force, sadly, has had to change drastically to keep pace.

I pointed out the increase in violence as part of my original post. But while I'm sure that things have become more violent, I'm not certain how much more violent they are vs. how much our society is now afraid of things due to media coverage of outstanding events and also has become incredibly risk averse. I should take the time to look up those stats one of these days. In any case, there are definitely many cases where the probability of violence is incredibly minimal and police still act in ways that I believe are unnecessarily militaristic, and leads to increasing distrust and a higher likelihood of future violence (my analysis, clearly). I really think this needs to be addressed.

RE: This event. I'll be very interested to see if the recording of the protester in the police car comes out. Note that at least 2 of the cops involved have been put on leave (paid), presumably while the department investigates. It's clear that the protester was a pretty big a$$ and went looking for trouble, but I'll be interested in seeing what the investigation says in the end.


veganclimber


Sep 20, 2007, 6:04 PM
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chadnsc


Sep 20, 2007, 6:15 PM
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Re: [veganclimber] who had seen the kid being tazed at kerry's speach video? [In reply to]
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Uh, if you want to get technical a lot of those deaths wouldn't have happened if the person wouldn’t have been violent and trying to harm police officers or others.

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